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Thread: Vedic hinduism vs.puranic hinduism

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    Vedic hinduism vs.puranic hinduism

    What is significant diff. Between vedic and puranic hinduism?personally i belive vedic hinduism is more authentic...any respected members pls give me any information...dhanyabad..

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    Re: Vedic hinduism vs.puranic hinduism

    namastE astu bhagavan vishveshvarAya mahAdevAya tryaMbakAya|
    tripurAntakAya trikAgnikAlAya kAlAgnirudrAya nIlakaNThAya mRtyuJNjayAya sarveshvarAya sadAshivAya shrIman mAhAdevAya ||

    Om shrImAtrE namah

    sarvam shrI umA-mahEshwara parabrahmArpaNamastu


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    Re: Vedic hinduism vs.puranic hinduism

    After Srila Vyasadeva divided the Vedas into four books (Rg, Yajur, Sama and Atharva), his disciples further divided them into 1,130 divisions. This is stated in the Kurma Purana (52.19-20): eka-vimsati-bhedena rg-vedam krtavan pura

    sakhanam satenaiva yajur-vedam athakarot

    sama-vedam sahasrena sakhanam prabibheda sah
    atharvanam atho vedam bibedha navakena tu


    ‘Previously the Rg Veda was divided into 21 sections, the Yajur Veda into 100 sections, the Sama Veda into 1,000 sections and the Atharva Veda into 9 divisions.’
    Each division has 4 minor divisions, namely the Samhitas, Brahmanas, Aranyakas and Upanisads. Thus altogether the 4 Vedas contain 1,130 Samhitas, 1,130 Brahmanas, 1,130 Aranyakas, and 1,130 Upanisads. This makes a total of 4,520 divisions.

    At present, most of these texts have disappeared due to the influence of time. We can only find 11 Samhitas, 18 Brahmanas, 7 Aranyakas and 220 Upanisads which constitutes a mere 6% of the entire Vedic canon!
    1. Even if the Vedas were complete in there entirety, in order to understand them one must first study the Vedangas which includes Siksa (the science of phonetics), Vyakarana (grammatical rules), Kalpa (ritualistic rules), Nirukta (obscure word meanings), Chanda (Metres for chanting Vedic hymns), and Jyotisa (astrology and astronomy).
    2. Since the language of the Vedas is enshrouded in mysterious meanings, one must also be willing to sacrifice years of study in order to learn Vaidika (classical) Sanskrit. This entails primarily learning the basic grammar (which generally takes 12 years or so) and then memorising extra vocabulary in order to decipher the mystical language of the Vedas. 1
    Apart from that, it is practically impossible for those born in the age of Kali (who are generally ‘mandah sumanda-matayo’) to memorise even the slightest thing. What to speak of the entire Vedas or even the 6% that still survives today! At present, amongst the brahmana communities in India, it is generally observed that vedadhyayana simply consists of memorising the text of one of the four Vedas ‘parrot-fashion’, but as we can see from above, there is much more to it than that. Therefore, we may conclude that although the Vedas are perfect sabda-pramana, it is impractical to become thoroughly conversant with the Vedas in this day and age in order to understand the Supreme. Hence the solution lies in the Puranas and the Itihasas. This is explained in the following verse -

    bharata-vyapadesena hyamnayarthah pradarsitah
    vedah pratisthah sarve sarve purane natra samsayah

    "On the pretext of writing the Mahabharata, Vyasa explained the meaning of the Vedas. Certainly all the topics of the Vedas have been established in the Puranas." (Visnu Purana)
    Furthermore, it is explained in the Mahabharata (Adi Parva 1.267) and Manu Samhita
    itihasa puranabhyam vedam samupabrmhayet

    " One must complement one’s study of the Vedas with the Itihasas and the Puranas."
    In the Prabhasa-khanda of the Skanda Purana (5.3.121-124) it is said –

    veda-van niscalam manye puranartham dvijottamah
    vedah pratisthitah sarve purane natra samsayah

    bibhety-alpa-srutad vedo mam ayam calayisyati
    itihasa-puranais tu niscalo’yam krtah purah

    yan na drstam hi vedesu tad drstam smrtisu dvijah
    ubhayor yan na drstam hi tat puranah pragiyate
    yo veda caturo vedan sangopanisado dvijah
    puranam naiva janati na ca sa syad vicaksana


    " O best of the brahmanas, the meaning of the Puranas is unchanging just like that of the Vedas. The Vedas are all sheltered within the Puranas without a doubt. The Veda has a fear that unqualified people will read her and then distort her meaning. Thus, the significance of the Veda was fixed in the Puranas and Itihasas. That which is not found in the Vedas is found in the Smrti. That which is not found in the Smrti is to be found in the Puranas. Those who know even the Vedas and Upanisads are not learned if they do not know the Puranas."



    The reason they are called ‘Puranas’ is because they make the Vedas complete (puranat puranam iti canyatra). This is not to suggest that the Vedas are incomplete. It simply means that the Puranas are explanatory supplements which aid one to understand the concise and ambiguous passages in the Vedas. If the Puranas complete the Vedas, it is only logical that they must be Vedic in nature.

    Our Tattvavadi friends have stated that Puranic evidence is secondary to those statements of the sruti because they are composed by mortals. Generally it is correct to state that the sruti is primary and the smrti secondary in that it (sruti) seeks to elaborate on the meaning of the smrti. However, under the circumstances, the puranas and itihasas are now to be considered primary evidence. As regards the mortal composition of the puranas and Itihasas, 2 we beg to differ with this view, on the basis of the following references in the sruti-sastras

    rcah samani chandamsi puranam yajusa saha
    ucchistaj-jajnire sarve divi deva divi-sritah


    "The Rg, Sama, Yajur and Atharva became manifest from the Lord, along with the Puranas and all the Devas residing in the heavens." (Atharva Veda 11.7.24)
    sa brhatim disam anu vyacalat tam itihasas ca puranam ca gathas ca itihasasya ca sa vai puranasya ca gathanam ca narasamsinam ca priyam dhama bhavati ya evam veda
    "He approached the brhati meter, and thus the Itihasas, Puranas, Gathas and Narasamsis became favorable to him. One who knows this verily becomes the beloved abode of the Itihasas, Puranas, Gathas and Narasamsis." (Atharva Veda 15.6.10–12)

    evam ime sarva veda nirmitah sa-kalpah sa-rahasyah sa-brahmanah sopanisatkah setihasah sanvakhyatah sa-puranan
    "In this way, all the Vedas were manifested along with the Kalpas, Rahasyas, Brahmanas, Upanisads, Itihasas, Anvakhyatas and the Puranas." (Gopatha Brahmana, purva 2.10)
    nama va rg-vedo yajur-vedah sama-veda atharvanas caturtha itihasa-puranah pancamo vedanam vedah

    "Indeed, Rg, Yajur, Sama and Atharva are the names of the four Vedas. The Itihasas and Puranas are the fifth Veda." (Kauthumiya Chandogya Upanisad 7.1.4)
    asya mahato bhutasya nihsvasitam etad yad rg-vedo yajur-vedah sama
    vedo’tharvangirasa itihasah puranam ityadina


    "O Maitreya, the Rg, Yajur, Sama and Atharva Vedas as well as the Itihasas and the Puranas all manifest from the breathing of the Lord." (Madhyandina-sruti, Brhad-aranyaka Upanisad 2.4.10)
    From these above sruti statements it is clear that the puranas are part of the Vedas and originate from the same source as the Vedas, namely the Supreme Lord Himself. One may argue that since the Puranas have names such as Skanda, Agni, Markandeya etc. they must have been composed by those personalities, therefore they are not eternal and thus cannot be apauruseya. However, if that is the case, then certain sections of the Vedas must also be considered to be pauruseya-vakya since they have names like Katha Upanisad, Aitareya Upanisad (Katha and Aitareya being names of sages). It is understood that certain parts of the Vedas are named after certain rsis, not because they composed them, but because they were the main exponents of those portions. Since persons with the names Katha and Aitareya appear in every millenium, one should not misunderstand that before the appearance of those persons described in the Vedas, these names were simply meaningless words.



    Similarly many of the Puranas are named after the first person who expounded them. Many times however, due to the influence of time, a scripture may become forgotten on this planet and thus a deva or sage speaks it again, and it becomes known by that name. Such an example is found in the Bhagavatam wherein the sun-god imparts the Vajasaneyi-samhita of the Yajur Veda to Yajnavalkya Muni –
    atha ha bhagavams tava carana-nalina-yugalam tri-bhuvana-gurubhir
    abhivanditam aham ayata-yama-yajus-kama upasaramiti.

    evam stutam sa bhagavan vaji-rupa-dharo ravih
    yajumsy ayata-yamani munaye ’dat prasaditah


    "Therefore, O lord, with prayers I approach your two lotus feet, which are adored by the preceptors of the three worlds, because I wish to receive from you mantras of the Yajur Veda that are unknown to anyone else."

    "Being pleased by such exaltation, the sun-god took the form of a horse and presented to the muni mantras of the Yajur Veda which were previously unknown to any mortal." (Bhagavata 12.6.72-73)
    In his treatise Visnu Tattva Vinirnaya, Sri Madhva, quoting Brahmanda Purana explains thus:

    puranani tadarthani sarge sarge’nythaiva tu
    kriyante’tastvanityani tadarthah purva-sargavat
    vedanam srsthivakyani bhaveyurvyaktyapeksaya
    avantarabhimananam devanam va vyapeksaya
    nanityatvat kutastesamanityatvam sthiratmanam


    In other words, the Puranas are supposed to explain the meaning of the Vedas and are only different by the changes in words, chanda (metre), rsi, sequence etc. at the beginning of each creation. In this way they are considered to be non-eternal, but their meaning will be the same as in the previous creation.
    Therefore Madhva categorizes the Puranas as ‘nitya-anitya’ because they originally emanate from the Supreme Lord, but they are sometimes unmanifest.
    As a side note, it may be asked that if the Puranas are indeed subsidiary to the sruti-sastras, why does Sri Madhvacarya himself quote them so often in his works? Not only that, he even uses puranic evidence in order to establish the nityatva of the Vedas! If the Puranas are not eternal and apauruseya, why would he use their ‘secondary statements’ as a pramana to validify something which is superior?

    Another point is that in the chanting of the Brahma-yajna (formal study of the Vedas), the Puranas are included. If they were not Vedic in nature they would not be included. Therefore the Taittiriya Aranyaka (2.9) states yad brahmananitihasa-puranani: "The Itihasas and Puranas are Vedas."

    It has already been stated above in the quote from Chandogya Upanisad 3 that the Puranas are known as the fifth Veda. 4 The reason behind this is because the Puranas and Itihasas are derived originally from the Yajur Veda. This is explained by Sri Suta in the Vayu Purana-
    itihasa-purananam vaktaram samyag eva hi
    mam caiva pratijagraha bhagavan isvarah prabhuh

    eka asid yajur-vedas tam caturdha vyakalpayat
    catur-hotram abhut tasmins tena yajnam akalpayat

    adhvaryavam yajurbhis tu rgbhir hotram tathaiva ca
    audgatram samabhis caiva brahmatvam capyatharvabhih

    akhyanais capyupakhyanair gathabhir dvija-sattamah
    purana-samhitas cakre puranartha-visaradah

    yac-chistam tu yajur-veda iti sastrartha-nirnayah

    "That almighty Lord (Sri Vyasa) chose me as the qualified speaker of the Itihasas and the Puranas. In the beginning there was only one Veda – the Yajur Veda. This was divided into four portions. From these stemmed the four performances known as the catur-homa by which he (Vyasa) arranged for the performance of sacrifice. The Adhvaryu priest uses the Yajur mantras, the Hotra priest uses the Rg mantras, the Udgata priest uses the Sama mantras, and the Brahma priest uses the Atharva mantras.

    O best of all the brahmanas, after this he (Vyasa) who understands the meaning of the Puranas, compiled them and the Itihasas by combining various akhyanas, upakhyanas and gathas. 5 Whatever remained after Vyasa had divided the Vedas into four divisions was considered to also be the Yajur Veda. Thus is the conclusion of the sastras." (Vayu Purana 60.16-18, 21-22)
    The statement of Sri Suta Gosvami in the above verse from Vayu Purana in which he says that ‘Whatever remained after Vyasa had divided the Vedas into four divisions was considered to also be the Yajur Veda’ indicates that the essence of the original Purana (which was the remaining part of the Yajur Veda) became the condensed version of the Purana consisting of four-hundred-thousand slokas, available on the earth-planet.
    Further evidence for this is found in the Matsya Purana (53.8-9)wherein the Lord says –

    kalenagrahanam matva puranasya dvijottamah
    vyasa-rupam aham krtva samharami yuge yuge


    "O best of the brahmanas, understanding that the Purana would gradually become forgotten, in every yuga I appear in the form of Vyasa and condense it."
    In the next sloka of that Purana, the Lord continues –

    catur-laksa-pramanena dvapare dvapare sada
    tad astadasadha krtva
    bhur-loke’smin prabhasyate

    adyapyamartya-loke tu sata-koti-pravistaram
    tad artho’tra catur-laksah sanksepena nivesitah


    "The Purana contains four-hundred-thousand verses which is divided into eighteen parts. These are passed on via oral tradition every Dvapara-yuga on the earth-planet. Even today the original Purana which consists of one-billion verses exists in the heavenly planets. The essential meaning of that Purana is contained in the smaller version of four-hundred-thousand verses."
    The same point is raised in the Vayaviya Samhita (7.1.1. 37-38) –

    sanksipya caturo vedams caturdha vyabhajat prabhuh
    vyasta-vedataya khyato veda-vyasa iti smrtah

    puranam api sanksiptam· catur-laksa-pramanatah
    adyapyamartya-loke tu sata-koti-pravistaram

    sanksiptam ityatra teneti sesah

    "That Lord who is most intelligent then divided the Vedas into four. He therefore became known as Veda Vyasa. He also summarized the Puranas into four-hundred-thousand verses which are still available in the heavenly domain in the form if one billion verses."

    However, it should be explained that although the Puranas and Itihasas are known as the fifth Veda — that does not mean that they are literally identical in all ways with the Vedas. If that were so, Purana and Itihasa would just be names of certain sections of the Vedas. The difference between them is in annotation and the order of words. The Vedas are chanted in a particular style involving three tone accents (svaras) called udatta, anudatta and svarita. If a word is chanted in the wrong accent, the whole meaning of the sentence can change.

    As regards the order of words, the Vedas maintain a particular sequence which has not changed since the dawn of creation. There is no scope for even the slightest change in the Vedic texts, whereas the texts of the Puranas change according to kalpa-bheda. It is for this reason that we find occasional differencies in certain editions of the Puranas.
    Another distinction between the Vedas and the Puranas is that although the Puranas are considered part of the Brahma-yajna, they are not used in the performance of Vedic sacrifices.


    Therefore in the Hari Vamsa (3.323.34)it is said –

    vede ramayane caiva purane bharate tatha
    adav-ante ca madhye ca harih sarvatra giyate


    "In the Vedas, the Ramayana, Puranas and Mahabharata, from the very beginning to the end, as well as within the middle, only Hari, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is explained."

    adapted from: http://gosai.com/writings/the-suprem...over-the-vedas
    Last edited by Sahasranama; 21 November 2012 at 02:40 AM.

  4. #4

    Re: Vedic hinduism vs.puranic hinduism

    Quote Originally Posted by Avik View Post
    What is significant diff. Between vedic and puranic hinduism?personally i belive vedic hinduism is more authentic...any respected members pls give me any information...dhanyabad..
    The now defunct Vedic religion was marked by -

    1. No idol worship (and hence, no temples)
    2. Absence of today's prominent Gods such as Krishna, Shiva*, Ganesha, Lakshmi, Saraswati, etc.
    3. Belief in a pitru-loka or an afterlife where people went to heaven based on merit. Ancestor worship was prominent.
    4. Belief in reincarnation appears to be missing in the early samhita and also the concept of Moksha.

    Puranic style Hinduism, pretty much forms the basis of today's Hinduism, with very few elements surviving from the old Vedic religion. I would not say Puranic Hinduism is newer. India is a large region and there always existed non-Aryan people and it is likely that Puranic religion originates from some of these groups.

    To this day, there exist numerous local Gods around the country who are neither Vedic nor Puranic. Hinduism is fairly complex and it requires one to have lived and traveled around the country to understand this, as they are not to be found in books.

    * Rudra of the Veda is identified with Shiva, but the identification itself is not from the Veda.
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    Re: Vedic hinduism vs.puranic hinduism

    Quote Originally Posted by shiv.somashekhar View Post
    The now defunct Vedic religion was marked by -

    1. No idol worship (and hence, no temples)
    2. Absence of today's prominent Gods such as Krishna, Shiva*, Ganesha, Lakshmi, Saraswati, etc.
    3. Belief in a pitru-loka or an afterlife where people went to heaven based on merit. Ancestor worship was prominent.
    4. Belief in reincarnation appears to be missing in the early samhita and also the concept of Moksha.
    * Rudra of the Veda is identified with Shiva, but the identification itself is not from the Veda.
    Points 2 and 4 have been refuted in the threads I linked to.So has the non identification of Rudra with Shiva.
    namastE astu bhagavan vishveshvarAya mahAdevAya tryaMbakAya|
    tripurAntakAya trikAgnikAlAya kAlAgnirudrAya nIlakaNThAya mRtyuJNjayAya sarveshvarAya sadAshivAya shrIman mAhAdevAya ||

    Om shrImAtrE namah

    sarvam shrI umA-mahEshwara parabrahmArpaNamastu


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  6. #6

    Re: Vedic hinduism vs.puranic hinduism

    Quote Originally Posted by Omkara View Post
    Points 2 and 4 have been refuted in the threads I linked to.So has the non identification of Rudra with Shiva.
    I do not see the refutation in your threads. My statements 2 and 4 still stand.

    It is possible that I missed the relevant portions in your threads as they are just too long to read. If yes, then it will help if you are more specific.
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    Re: Vedic hinduism vs.puranic hinduism

    Quote Originally Posted by shiv.somashekhar View Post
    I do not see the refutation in your threads. My statements 2 and 4 still stand.

    It is possible that I missed the relevant portions in your threads as they are just too long to read. If yes, then it will help if you are more specific.
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    Re: Vedic hinduism vs.puranic hinduism

    Namaste Sahasranama,

    Thank you very much for that explanation. I believe someday The Supreme will descend and give us the lost 94%.
    Anirudh...

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    Re: Vedic hinduism vs.puranic hinduism

    Quote Originally Posted by shiv.somashekhar View Post
    I do not see the refutation in your threads. My statements 2 and 4 still stand.

    It is possible that I missed the relevant portions in your threads as they are just too long to read. If yes, then it will help if you are more specific.
    Dear Shiv,

    Your posts only shows your sheer ignorance on what is there in SamhitAs. Perhaps you picked up such statements from comments made by Knowledge-obtained through Internet-Hindus. I would advise you to read the SamhitAs yourself.

    For Sarasvati, you may refer Chapter-9 and Chapter-10 of Rig Veda, Yajurveda chapter-29 etc. In fact, Sarasvati has been named as Vak devi, Sarasvati, Bharati etc. at many places in the Samhitas parts of the VedAs.

    For Laxmi you may refer chapter 31 and 32 of Yajurveda.

    Moksha (freedom from death, births and death etc.) has been indicated at many places in Yajur Veda (you may refer, chapter 31,32,40) and Atharva Veda (Chapter 2). Moksha and Advaitic teachings are found at many places in the Atharva Veda.

    GaNapati has been mentioned in chapter 23 of the Yajur Veda.

    Rudra and Shiva are same. The whole chapter 16 of Yajur Veda is devoted to Shiva. He has been described as God with matted locks, who lives in the HimAlyAs, who has blue neck due to taking poison, with Trishula etc. He is named as Shiva, Shambhu etc. in the chapter.

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  10. #10

    Re: Vedic hinduism vs.puranic hinduism

    Thanks for ur suggestion,information and it's my honour that respected members like you visit my post...but i have a small question ...can anyone explains about vedic sanskrit and it's diff.with modern sanskrit?and is there any attempt to recover lost 94%of veda?thanks in advance...

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