Thoughts on the Vedas

[Gwiwer]

Sorry for creating lots of short threads. I sometimes feel like I should be keeping all of my questions to a single thread, but, since they're all slightly different, it seems like they all deserve their own. Hopefully I'm not making too much of a mess of the forum in the process.

I really like some aspects of Hinduism, but other aspects really bother me. The Vedas definitely fit into the latter category. I've been having trouble reconciling parts of the Vedas with some of the parts of Hinduism that I like such as the teaching of ahimsa. The ashvamedha sacrifice is especially troubling to me.

With that being said, I thought of something that may help to reconcile this problem and now I'm wondering how well this belief would fit with Vaishnavite Hinduism. I figure I'll throw the idea out there and get some reactions to it.

I wonder if perhaps God, who in this case I'm assuming to be Vishnu, actually hated the idea of animal sacrifices such as the ashvamedha sacrifice, but realized that people in Vedic times were not in a spiritual position that allowed most of them to get beyond such sacrifices at that point. So, to make the best of a bad situation, God revealed the Vedas in such a way as to permit these sorts of sacrifices while also using them to symbolically teach people higher spiritual truths and prepare them to move beyond such things when they were ready.

Then, at a later point in time when people were ready to move beyond Vedic sacrifices, God subsequently incarnated as Krishna and the Buddha in order to emphasize ahimsa and the higher spiritual practices hinted at in the Vedas and finally ween people off of animal sacrifices and other distasteful religious practices. This would help to reconcile both the ideas of Krishna and the Buddha as avatars of Vishnu with their seeming rejection of the Vedas. It would even make sense of the idea of Jesus as an incarnation of Vishnu since, like Krishna, Jesus encouraged people away from the sacrifices and other rituals of the Jewish scriptures and encouraged them to move towards a more personal, direct connection with God, but that's a little beyond the scope of my musings at the present time.

This idea makes some sense to me, but I wonder how well it would fit into orthodox Hinduism. After all, it would imply that the Vedas aren't universally and eternally true, but rather limited guides designed for a very specific purpose during a very specific time in this world's religious development. Though, the Vedas would still, in this view, contain some valuable insight as they would still be demonstrative of a certain mind-set and approach to religion that could continue to inspire people even if the particular rituals and practices set forth within them are outdated and contrary to higher spiritual truths revealed at a later time.

As a Buddhist, I'm not sure if this idea necessarily changes anything for me. The idea of forcing sentient beings to suffer even in the pursuit of higher truths is very problematic and hard to get over. Regardless of my current discomfort though, the idea does intrigue me and seems to offer hope that I may one day be able to come to terms with some of the aspects of Hinduism I find troubling. It would be great if I could do that since I still find myself agreeing more with Hinduism than Buddhism when it comes to certain topics like the soul, the way reincarnation works, God, and so forth. So, I don't know. Would this approach to the Vedas fit with Vaishnavite beliefs, or am I way outside of orthodox Hinduism with this? I would love to hear opinions on the matter from everyone. Feel free to weigh in even if you don't practice Vaishnavism. A diversity of opinions is certainly welcome and would be most helpful.

Also, please note that I'm acutely aware of the fact that attempts of one religion to appropriate or explain away the important religious figures of another religion can be very offensive. As a Buddhist, I have heard some pretty offensive things said about the Buddha from Hindus on some rare occasions, so I am trying to be very sensitive and careful in my handling of this topic. I in no way intend to diminish the role or importance of Krishna, the Buddha, Jesus, or any other religious figure in any way within their associated religious traditions. Quite the opposite. Within this idea, they are accorded tremendously high amounts of respect, admiration, and importance that hopefully does not detract at all from their roles in other religions.

[dhyandev]

I wonder if perhaps God, who in this case I'm assuming to be Vishnu, actually hated the idea of animal sacrifices such as the ashvamedha sacrifice, but realized that people in Vedic times were not in a spiritual position that allowed most of them to get beyond such sacrifices at that point. So, to make the best of a bad situation, God revealed the Vedas in such a way as to permit these sorts of sacrifices while also using them to symbolically teach people higher spiritual truths and prepare them to move beyond such things when they were ready.

Total Disagreement

This idea makes some sense to me, but I wonder how well it would fit into orthodox Hinduism. After all, it would imply that the Vedas aren't universally and eternally true, but rather limited guides designed for a very specific purpose during a very specific time in this world's religious development. Though, the Vedas would still, in this view, contain some valuable insight as they would still be demonstrative of a certain mind-set and approach to religion that could continue to inspire people even if the particular rituals and practices set forth within them are outdated and contrary to higher spiritual truths revealed at a later time.

you need to spend more time with scripture & your Guru.Above post shows your very little understanding in this field.you need some TATVIK discourses from some enlightened guru

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~


namast�

When talk ing of the veda-s , it is a vast ocean of knowledge. One must be aware when veda is implied
there are several limbs to it. We have ṛg, sama, yajur, and atharva ved... all of them include the following�

• saṁhitā-s
• brāhmaṇa-s
• āraṇyaka-s
• upaniṣad-s

Not to mention the 6 vedānga-s that are an extention of the veda-s.


My point to offer: there is a much broader view to consider pending one's knowledge of the ved. In fact the mahābhārata is considered the 5th veda and a condensed version of all the vedic teachings offered in one place. This ~boils down~ and expands a vast ocean of knowledge for one to consider. Yet too this book is just as profound as the orginal works.


praṇām


1. atharva ved does not have āraṇyaka-s

[Omkara]

That would not be acceptable to any orrhodox hindu. You need to do some reading on the concept of apaurusheyatva of the Vedas.

[ShivaFan]

Namaste Gwiwer

Siddhartha Buddha was a Prince from Nepal, and actually included as an Avatar of Vishnu among many Vaishnava Samprayas. But I am a Shaiva, just to let you know. However, I do not think Siddhartha was a Buddhist, that came later. There is a lot of advanced teachings in Buddhism, but actually Siddhartha learned from contemporaries who were Jains viz Mahavira The Great Hero. And Jains learned from Hinduism (e.g. with strong roots to the Vedas and teachings as well from Devi Saraswati who holds a sacred book in Her hand). Of course, Jains are the ultimate in regards to non-violence, against all including insects, more conservative than Buddhists in this regard. All such paths originated from Mother India which is just another way of saying from the Ved or Knowledge - and this is very important, those of us today who can hold a "book" (printed) of one of the Vedas owe everything to the Rishis and Munis and Yogis and disciples of Gurus who HEARD the Vedas, they heard these and passed them on via oral tradition.

Who did the hear these truths from? The Divine. They did not author them, they heard them.

As far as ashvamedha viz Horse Sacrifice, you cannot do this Yagna which appears in the Yajur Veda, but also other sacred texts or histories such as the Ramayana for example. If you did this, as would be the case in most countries, you would be arrested. It was only Kings who could do this ceremony, and I know you feel sad but it isn't what you think. Nor is it a case that Vishnu or the Devas are permitting it just because "Vedic people were stuck in simple old days" (my own words on how some may see it). One of the duties as I was taught in regards to Dharma was, yes - not to do harm to other living entities. But I have also been to a Kali temple where I am standing right there and a goat's head gets cut off. Today I am much more considerate of ahimsa and not killing, including I want to protect goats and not just Mother Cow. However, I think the Kali Pujaris know what they are doing, and I am certainly not one who is going to tell them anything, I only should take instruction because I am not an authority on Ved nor much of anything. Today, when do you ever hear of horse sacrifice? Very, very rare. Why? Because we have lost our Rajas and Maharajas. And I feel very sad for this. I love them very much, in fact met a Maharaja and today in the sad state of affairs we have these Royals humiliated, they have had their rights taken away and their Kingdoms, and for what? If a Maharaja has the money, the authority who leverages the priests of authority to do such a sacrifice, which by the way is very, very complicated and very, very, very expensive - then I say let them for they have a good reason. The horse goes to the higher lokas. You think there is nothing to learn from this sacrifice, but if you ever studied it and the reasons behind it, and how the horse goes about from Kingdom to Kingdom and how it serves purposes of peace by authority, you might consider. Yes we need to protect the animals. Of course. But I am not one to tell the Kali Pujari nor the Maharaja what to do. I can tell you, as we see the Maharajas lose their authority, we see more violence, victims of crime, and animals the victims of bad characters, than ever before. All other animals loved the Rajas who protected the forest. I know I may sound simple, and that is because I am simple. You and I will never perform the horse sacrifice. And I think in this bad world today, no one will.

Om Namah Sivaya