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Thread: Worship of foreign deities.

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    Worship of foreign deities.

    From what I've heard, there are Hindus who worship foreign deities. Is this something acceptable amongst Hindus? There seems to be rejection of this sort of thing amongst practitioners of other ethnic faiths. I am wondering if there's a similar rejection of this amongst Hindus.
    Om Krim Kalikaye Nama Om

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    Re: Worship of foreign deities.

    I respect everyone who wishes to worship their own deity, but the worship of non Hindu gods has absolutely no place in Sanatana Dharma.

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    Re: Worship of foreign deities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Little-Bear View Post
    From what I've heard, there are Hindus who worship foreign deities.
    We already have too many to keep count, why add 'foreign' to the chaos.

    But we have plenty of domestic ones which are not in shastras to the extent you even have temples with "vedic" preists doing puja to these dieties. But mostly these are Islamic "saints" turned into Hindu gods after their death. One can find some of these dieties in areas which suffered under Islamic rule including parts of rural bengal. I came across an image of a curious bearded diety on a horse with sword held high surrounded by rural village women. The message probably was:- Give up your women when I come with my Sword and the Koran.

    Of course there are other examples eg. RKM worship Ramakrishna as a diety [not Guru], swaminarayan has swaminarayan and there are ramdeos, sai babas so on and so forth...

    So you have heard correct in a way. But it is not the correct thing to do, I believe.
    Why are you unhappy? Because 99.9 per cent Of everything you think, And of everything you do, Is for yourself —And there isn't one

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    Re: Worship of foreign deities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Little-Bear View Post
    From what I've heard, there are Hindus who worship foreign deities. Is this something acceptable amongst Hindus? There seems to be rejection of this sort of thing amongst practitioners of other ethnic faiths. I am wondering if there's a similar rejection of this amongst Hindus.
    Vannakkam Little Bear: I'm guessing you're coming from First Nations spirituality?

    It's actually quite hard to decide. By that I mean it's possible that it is the same God known by a different name. Only a Satguru or renowned mystic in Hinduism would know, and they might not say. If a really strong (mystically) medicine man from here could be taken to a really strong and properly conducted Hindu temple in India, and he could 'feel' the presence of the God there, he might tell you from an inner perspective that it is the same God, or same deity. Then again he might not.

    But many people, just because they WANT to believe it is the same God, without the proper inner training, will just go ahead and project it on both sides. So the lay person has to use great discrimination in this, and I think it best to error on the side of caution.

    Certainly, within everyone, inside the soul, is the Self. In that sense alone it is the same God. But this goes against the very idea of an Abrahamic God, so its pretty safe to assume that in that case its not the same.

    But a Canadian First Nations God (I apologize for not knowing the name) might well be the same one as in Hinduism. Certainly there are some commonalities. There are many similarities between kavadi, and sundance for example. Smudging is very similar to what happens at the end of a Hindu puja. Just this summer on holiday in Vancouver, my local Hindu priest, and our families took part in a smudging ceremony.

    Many Hindu temples are built on the tallest hill around as are the medicine wheels in the Plains tribes. I've been at both, and there is an eerie resemblance in vibration, but I'm no great mystic who would know for sure. There were some differences in the vibrations as well. mainly in how the place is connected to the karma of the people. I've left offerings at both places, intuitively, and there is certainly some similarity.

    There is much similarity between Mayan and Hindu architecture.

    So yes, there is similarity. How far it goes. I'm really not sure.

    Have you been to both kinds of sacred sites? Participated in both kinds of ritual? How did you feel?

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: Worship of foreign deities.

    ye 'py anya-devatā-bhaktā

    yajante śraddhayānvitāḥ

    te 'pi mām eva kaunteya

    yajanty avidhi-pūrvakam 9.23

    SYNONYMS

    ye — those who; api — also; anya — of other; devatā — gods; bhaktāḥ — devotees; yajante — worship; śraddhayā anvitāḥ — with faith; te — they; api — also; mām — Me; eva — only; kaunteya — O son of Kuntī; yajanti — they worship; avidhi-pūrvakam — in a wrong way.

    TRANSLATION

    Those who are devotees of other gods and who worship them with faith actually worship only Me, O son of Kuntī, but they do so in a wrong way.

    PURPORT

    "Persons who are engaged in the worship of demigods are not very intelligent, although such worship is offered to Me indirectly," Kṛṣṇa says. For example, when a man pours water on the leaves and branches of a tree without pouring water on the root, he does so without sufficient knowledge or without observing regulative principles. Similarly, the process of rendering service to different parts of the body is to supply food to the stomach. The demigods are, so to speak, different officers and directors in the government of the Supreme Lord. One has to follow the laws made by the government, not by the officers or directors. Similarly, everyone is to offer his worship to the Supreme Lord only. That will automatically satisfy the different officers and directors of the Lord. The officers and directors are engaged as representatives of the government, and to offer some bribe to the officers and directors is illegal. This is stated here as avidhi-pūrvakam. In other words, Kṛṣṇa does not approve the unnecessary worship of the demigods.
    तद्विद्धि प्रणिपातेन परिप्रश्नेन सेवया ।
    उपदेक्ष्यन्ति ते ज्ञानं ज्ञानिनस्तत्वदर्शिनः ॥

    उस ज्ञान को तू तत्वदर्शी ज्ञानियों के पास जाकर समझ, उनको भलीभाँति दण्डवत्* प्रणाम करने से, उनकी सेवा करने से और कपट छोड़कर सरलतापूर्वक प्रश्न करने से वे परमात्म तत्व को भलीभाँति जानने वाले ज्ञानी महात्मा तुझे उस तत्वज्ञान का उपदेश करेंगे. श्रीमद्*भगवद्*गीता-4.34

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    Re: Worship of foreign deities.

    hari o
    ~~~~~~


    namasté
    Quote Originally Posted by dhyandev View Post
    ye — those who; api — also; anya — of other; devatā — gods; bhaktāḥ — devotees; yajante — worship; śraddhayā anvitāḥ — with faith; te — they; api — also; mām — Me; eva — only; kaunteya — O son of Kuntī; yajanti — they worship; avidhi-pūrvakam — in a wrong way.

    TRANSLATION

    Those who are devotees of other gods and who worship them with faith actually worship only Me, O son of Kuntī, but they do so in a wrong way.
    This translation ( which happens to be a cut n' paste) is authored by svāmī prabhupāda; it is interesting , yet is misses the mark when it comes to 3 key words of the śloka:
    • devatā = godhead , divinity
      • svāmī prabhupāda calls them 'demigods' in his translation - bhāgavad gītā as it is , pg. 475

    • avidhi = avidhāna = absence of fixed rule , not being prescribed
    • pūrvakam - earlier , former , previous , prior , first ; also defined as preceded or accompanied by , connected with , consisting in
      • svāmī prabhupāda chooses to view this word as avidhi-pūrvakam yet misses the notion that avidhi in aggregate can mean 'different way, or different method' ;
      • and the application of pūrvakam = 'consisting of' , fits perfectly.
      • Then this word avidhi-pūrvakam means ' consisting of different ways or methods'
    How then will this 23rd śloka found in the 9th chapter of the bhāgavad gītā now read ?

    (even) those who are devotees (bhaktāḥ) of other devatā or godhead (divinities) and sacrifice (yajante¹) to them with faith (śraddhayā) they also sacrifice to Me alone O' son of kuntī although they use different methods or ways.

    Who else other then me holds this view ? Abhinavagupi-ji the 9th century muni who takes a non-dual look of the bhāgavad gītā; his work ( translation of the bhāgavad gītā ) is called gitārtha saṃgraha.
    For those that study the bhāgavad gītā, the gitārtha saṃgraha is well worth ones time and effort to consider.

    praṇām

    1. yajante = yajanta = a sacrificer , worshipper
    यतसà¥à¤¤à¥à¤µà¤‚ शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṠśivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Worship of foreign deities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Twilightdance View Post
    We already have too many to keep count, why add 'foreign' to the chaos.
    And don't forget that shaivas and vaishnavas still debate about who is the Supreme Deity

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    Re: Worship of foreign deities.

    Namaste Little-Bear

    Originally Posted by Little-Bear
    "From what I've heard, there are Hindus who worship foreign deities. Is this something acceptable amongst Hindus? There seems to be rejection of this sort of thing amongst practitioners of other ethnic faiths. I am wondering if there's a similar rejection of this amongst Hindus."

    This is an interesting question, and while off the top of my head I cannot think of an example of Hindus adopting the worship of foreign deities into Hinduism, I can however think of several examples of foreign deities adopting Hindu God Identity.

    For example, Alexander the Great of Macedonia invaded Hindu areas of the world towards the Indus Holy River centuries ago. When he died, he was put into a "coffin" filled with honey (rather than the standard cremation common among many of his soldiers) as was a tradition of those of Princely status and Alexander was deified as a God among many of his men and generals.

    In India, we know of the Deva Skanda. Those Greeks and Macedonians who remained in India and started to marry Hindu women took the name Alexander which was changed to Skander to adopt Skanda Deva as God and God Skander (Alexander) and Skanda (the Son of Shiva) became the same.

    Om Namah Shivaya

    .... By the way, if you are First Nations, let me tell you the Raven totem is the shamani flying vehicle of the most wonderful Hindu Deva called Shani Dev. When you see the raven, which is the most intelligent of birds, think of Shani Dev.

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    Re: Worship of foreign deities.

    Well, my tribe has a similar concept of God to Hinduism. We believe that every spirit is a manifestation of The Great Mystery(similar to the Brahmin). I never really thought that the Brahmin or The Great Mystery were different. The Great Mystery always seemed distant to me, so I've always worshipped "Him" indirectly through spirits. I made the assumption that the Brahmin was the same way.

    I was thinking more along the lines of the Anglo-Saxon deities. While I do feel a connection to Kali, I still feel a connection to deities like Woden(Odin), Freo(Freya) and Frea Ingui(Freyr Yngvi).

    I do see some resemblances between Woden and Shiva. Both of these gods share similar roles as the supreme god(Shiva being sect dependant), the outsider and the mystic of the wilds. Thunor(Thor) and Indra are so similar it's not even funny. Freya reminds me very much of Durga, both of thes goddesses are often depicted as independent and without a permanent male consort. Both are war goddesses and are often sought after by the "evil" gods. As a matter of fact, in both religions, the feminine powers are collectively worshipped and often overlap roles.


    Shanti
    Om Krim Kalikaye Nama Om

  10. #10

    Re: Worship of foreign deities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Little-Bear View Post
    From what I've heard, there are Hindus who worship foreign deities. Is this something acceptable amongst Hindus? There seems to be rejection of this sort of thing amongst practitioners of other ethnic faiths. I am wondering if there's a similar rejection of this amongst Hindus.
    Namaste!

    Some Hindus radically reject syncretism; others actively support it. You won't get a definitive answer on this, as Hindus are all across the board on it. However, I'll share the little information I know about syncretism and Hinduism.

    Some Trinidadian and Goan Shaktas (and Catholics) practice syncretism between Catholic iconography and Shakta iconography.
    Tara Mahavidya is believed by many to have been an adoption into Hinduism of the Buddhist bodhisattva Tara. Giving credence to this belief is the fact that their mantras are the same - "Aum Taare Tutaare Ture Swaha". Also, I believe in one of the Hindu Tantras it is actually stated that Tara Mahavidya wears the image of the Buddha Amitabha in her topknot. Hindus acknowledge Buddha as the ninth avatar of Lord Hari.
    In one of the Shaiva Puranas, it states that Mahavira, the last Jain Tirthankara, was created by Lord Vishnu to fulfill a specific purpose (sure, it was to delude people, but, still, at least he's acknowledged! ).
    The Sindhi people syncretise Sikhism and Hinduism by accepting Guru Nanak as a prophet, and Sindhi Hindus and Sikhs both revere Jhule Lal.
    Some more modern Hindu gurus (such as Ramakrishna, Srila Prabhupada, and Anandamayi Ma) don't seem to have had much of a problem with mild (or, in the case of Ramakrishna, extreme) syncretism.

    From the other end of things, other religions have been practicing different forms and variations of syncretism with Hinduism for centuries. Jains revere many forms of Devi and I believe they also revere Krishna as the brother of one of the Tirthankars.
    Buddhists, even as far as Japan, revere Durgaa as 'Juntei Kannon'. Buddhists also list Rama Krishna as one of the past lives of the Buddha in the Jataka tales. Tibetan Buddhists revere Lakshmi as Vasundhara and Kaali as Vajrayogini.
    Sikhs have sections of the Guru Granth Sahib dedicated to Krishna, Ram, Nrisimha, and Chandi. Of course, Sikhs also celebrate Diwali, under the auspices that it celebrates the release of one of their gurus from prison.
    Some believe that Ishtar/Inanna and Cebele are the Babylonian and Greek derivations of Durgaa and that Bacchus/Dionysus is a derivation from Shiva (indeed, that's what some ancient Greeks thought on first invading India). A Greek conqueror erected a pillar to Lord Hari to mark his devotion.
    In the Caribbean, Santeria and Vodou are seeing greater practitioners invoking Hindu deities in their practices and even syncretising them with their deities (e.g.- Lakshmi as Ochun; Kaali as Oya; Saraswati as Obatala) as more Indians are immigrating to the West.

    However, if you're asking if you'll see an image of Ishtar, Jesus, Guan Yin, or Dionysus in a Hindu temple, the answer would be a no, since not all Hindus agree with these syncretic tendencies. That, and you have to consider that we'd have to come up with all different aartis, chaalisas, mantras, etc... for them and it would just be a really big hassle since there are innumerable deities in the world. Not to mention, they already have their own temples. We figure, if someone wants to worship a Guan Yin, they can go to a Buddhist temple; if someone wants to worship a Erzulie Freda, they can go to a peristyle. Our temples don't have room for every deity from every culture. Some of us already have enough trouble fitting in the most popular Hindu deities as it is! Hahaha

    Basically, if you want to syncretise Hindu deities with other deities, it's best left at home.

    Hope that helps (rather than complicates) things!

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