can someone explain reincarnation according to Vedanta to me?? please

[mile83]

Hi all,

as already mentioned in another thread I'm having difficulties accepting reincarnation.

What I don't understand somehow is that everything is cyclical in nature, right, which means time has no beginning, am I right about that? Now what I don't get if we trace time backwards it would go to infinity or infinitely backwards from now on?

Why aren't we liberated yet then, if time is infinite, shouldn't we all be free already??

I would be very thankful for some replies or links etc. I really want to understand!

Thanks alot

[wundermonk]

This question actually does not belong to the Advaita subforum. This question pertains to ALL Hindu Darshanas, so possibly it can be moved to the top "Philosophy" folder.

Now, coming to your question, there are many responses possible.

Firstly, an infinity of causes/effects can be traversed in infinite time. There really is nothing impossible about this.

Next, infinity is not a number. It is not that if you keep going back and back, you would reach a day which says "Ha, this day is infinite days before 2nd of December, 2012". Infinity simply means that an entity grows without bound.

Third, is the non-existence of a pot real or unreal? If it is real, then prior to a pot coming into existence, its non-existence had been existing for an eternity, right? So, think of liberation that way.

Fourth, there is yet another way to think of this issue in light of divinity. If God is omniscient, then he has knowledge of everything. Even when he created the universe (assuming God "creates" the universe), he already knew that there would be a person in December 2012 called mile83. Now, the object of God's knowledge is not absolutely non-existing - for God can not have knowledge of things like a hare's horn or a square circle, etc.

So, IF God is eternal, so is God's knowledge and so are the object of God's knowledge.

Ergo, mile83 is eternal.

Sruthi support for the above -

Know both Prakriti and Purusha to be beginningless.

Please let me know if something is unclear.

[Nirguna]

Namaste miles83,

Yes, everything is cyclic. The universe has, and always will, undergo constant creation-sustenance-destruction.
An example would be, is who came first, the chicken or an egg?

Now what I don't get if we trace time backwards it would go to infinity or infinitely backwards from now on?

We cannot trace back "to infinity". Since infinity cannot be measured. So time is begging-less and end-less.

Why aren't we liberated yet then, if time is infinite, shouldn't we all be free already??

You don't get liberated with time. You have to achieve it through spiritual practice. As I said before, liberation doesn't happen upon death. Upon death, you're essence is transferred from one form/physical body to another. So what it means, is that you haven't liberated in your past life. But you can achieve it in this life.

[kallol]

There are 2 ways to look at Hindu Dharma. One from ritualistic point of view, where you have the temples, the rituals, the beliefs, culture and the rigidities. These are formulated for the laymen, beginners or commoners. The knowledgeable class, known as bramhins of yore were more into abstract science, which cannot be always directly proved by materialistic means of yore.

Today we find that with more advancement of science, the hindu scriptures are proving to be right. This fact has been corroborated by great scientists and intellectuals. So the other way to look at Hindu scripture is that it is a guide to present science and future science.

The present science is limited by matter principle. Beyond which is the subtle matter universe. We are almost reaching the end of matter universe in our search for that origin of matter.

Now if we take Hinduism as science (both matter and subtle matter pov) then we can bring in analogies which runs through the subtle matter and matter universes.

An atom (in matter universe) due to interactions with other atoms, discharges or acquire charges and thus it becomes ion. Now the level of charge i.e. whether it is 1 or 4, will decide the force of attraction towards the opposite charge. Now the opposite charge also has to be similar level. So there are 2 results out of the level of charge
1. Depending on the level, the force of attraction will be high or low - as a result the ion might remain free accordingly. If the charge is 0 then it remains free for ever (moksha).

2. Depending on the level of charge, the ion finds a partner which is equal and opposite in charge.

Now the same thing happens to the mind. Based on the karmas, the mind acquire charge in various parameters. The level of which decides how long it will be free. The nature of charge decides which body it will get attracted to.

Now say there is a huge amount of ions with a particular type of charge (say negative). What happens ? We have similar phenomenon when clouds have huge charges. To neutralize that there is a lightning phenomenon. This lightning neutralizes all the charges. This lightning is a power which does not occur normally but only when the threshold of charges is breached.

Same is the case of avatar. This phenomenon happens once in several yugas.

All of these are reincarnation at different level.

If you think Hinduism is scientific, then this is the analogy. If you think it has to be only believed then treat it like any other religion. Just believe.

[mile83]

thanks wundermonk and kallol for your replies, to be honest, I have to read through them a couple of times before I understand, it's not that easy for me maybe because of language difficulties.

I have thought about it the past couple of days, and I forgot about avidya, isn't avidya the reason why we perceive duality? and so being reincarnated? And it's true that we don't know why we are under avidya because avidya is essentially inexplicable?

Sorry for putting this in the Advaita section, but this is the philosophy I'm actually most interested in!

Thanks a lot

[mile83]

This question actually does not belong to the Advaita subforum. This question pertains to ALL Hindu Darshanas, so possibly it can be moved to the top "Philosophy" folder.

Now, coming to your question, there are many responses possible.

Firstly, an infinity of causes/effects can be traversed in infinite time. There really is nothing impossible about this.

Next, infinity is not a number. It is not that if you keep going back and back, you would reach a day which says "Ha, this day is infinite days before 2nd of December, 2012". Infinity simply means that an entity grows without bound.

Third, is the non-existence of a pot real or unreal? If it is real, then prior to a pot coming into existence, its non-existence had been existing for an eternity, right? So, think of liberation that way.

Fourth, there is yet another way to think of this issue in light of divinity. If God is omniscient, then he has knowledge of everything. Even when he created the universe (assuming God "creates" the universe), he already knew that there would be a person in December 2012 called mile83. Now, the object of God's knowledge is not absolutely non-existing - for God can not have knowledge of things like a hare's horn or a square circle, etc.

So, IF God is eternal, so is God's knowledge and so are the object of God's knowledge.

Ergo, mile83 is eternal.

Sruthi support for the above -



Please let me know if something is unclear.

that's a good analogy

Third, is the non-existence of a pot real or unreal? If it is real, then prior to a pot coming into existence, its non-existence had been existing for an eternity, right? So, think of liberation that way.

[cherrytigerbarb]

When you die, awareness continues. Compare it to an electrical device that stops working. Electricity still exists in other such devices and will be present in devices yet to be. It's the same with awareness.

[Ra K Sankar]

Namaste

Sri Aurobindo's Life Divine available in the web for free download,
in its Book 2, Part II, has the following chapters.

Chapter XX - The Philosophy of Rebirth 771
Chapter XXI - The Order of the Worlds 795
Chapter XXII - Rebirth and Other Worlds;
Karma, the Soul and Immortality 823.

I have copied and pasted from the index of the e-book.
You will be thrilled beyond comprehension, if you go through.
It is as though somebody took you by hand
through reincarnation chamber describing you everything.
Of course, you need to have solid English foundation.

Incidentally, Sri Aurobindo's integral yoga combines
worship of Vishnu and Shakti with elements of Tantra
(probably from worship of Siva) blended into it,
as it were, by the Supramental Force of Sri Aurobindo.
And, His philosophy is "Real Non-dualism", with the reality
of the soul or psychic being emphasized time and again,
both the Mother, His Spiritual Consort and Him.

Best wishes
Ra K Sankar