Oneness - We are one.

[AmIHindu]

Namaste,

In Advaita, it is said that we are all One, and each and every life is progressing towards Self Realization but at their own pace.
Every life - means all living life, including smallest of warm - insect - bacteria.

Now when we say, we are all One, means essence inside us is the One. So this is true just in case of lives only ?? If I want to use this concept of Oneness for non- lively things , then what is the explanation.

If I want to compare myself with the chair or table. Am I and this chair or table are the same things? Do we have same essence in us ?

It has been said that at the end of world - kalp everything turns in to gas and get merged with the Supreme One. So if at the end of world - Kalp, this chair - table will able be - with some process - turn into gas and merged in the Supreme. So how me and chair are the same ? What is essence chair which is similar to my essence.

[wundermonk]

Great Q!

Here is my understanding from Shankara's commentary on BG verse 2:16.

Firstly, any effect, like a pot, when analyzed is NOT different from its cause, clay. Thus, as effects, they are unreal. Thus, all transformations, are NOT cognizable apart from their causes and hence are unreal. Anything that is mutable is unreal for it is unknown prior to its origination and unknown after its destruction.

The objection to this is: "If the totality of causes and effects be unreal there arises the contingency of an absolute vacuum".

Response: No. There are two types of cognitions - Cognition of the real and cognition of the unreal. That ALONE is real whose cognition ITSELF is immutable. Examples of true cognition are "The pot is", "The elephant is" and so on. Such cognitions consist of two parts - particular (pot, elephant, etc.) and "is"ness. This "is"ness is what is common to EVERYTHING.

Objection:When the pot disintegrates, the cognition "The pot is" ends.

Response: Yes, but the "is"ness is still available unchanged with respect to other pots and other elephants, for example. So, the cognition of "is"ness is absolutely imperishable.

So, in summary, "is"ness is a qualifying attribute for ANY AND EVERY COGNITION and is the common essence of ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING.

[AmIHindu]

Great Q!

Here is my understanding from Shankara's commentary on BG verse 2:16.

Firstly, any effect, like a pot, when analyzed is NOT different from its cause, clay. Thus, as effects, they are unreal. Thus, all transformations, are NOT cognizable apart from their causes and hence are unreal. Anything that is mutable is unreal for it is unknown prior to its origination and unknown after its destruction.

The objection to this is: "If the totality of causes and effects be unreal there arises the contingency of an absolute vacuum".

Response: No. There are two types of cognitions - Cognition of the real and cognition of the unreal. That ALONE is real whose cognition ITSELF is immutable. Examples of true cognition are "The pot is", "The elephant is" and so on. Such cognitions consist of two parts - particular (pot, elephant, etc.) and "is"ness. This "is"ness is what is common to EVERYTHING.

Objection:When the pot disintegrates, the cognition "The pot is" ends.

Response: Yes, but the "is"ness is still available unchanged with respect to other pots and other elephants, for example. So, the cognition of "is"ness is absolutely imperishable.

So, in summary, "is"ness is a qualifying attribute for ANY AND EVERY COGNITION and is the common essence of ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING.

Namaste W-Monk,

I can understand this reasoning of pot and clay. When pot losses its form, it goes back to clay. There is a common factor in both pot and clay, which is clay, so easy to understand. Likewise, between living organism and Supreme, there one factor is common, which is Jivatma, reflection of Parmatma. So when Jivatma losses its form ( on Self Realization) goes back to Parmatma. But I am stuck here on lifeless -निर्जीव - dead - Chair. What happens to it ? Lifeless, in this case Chair is the same as me ?

Everything we see is manifestation - is gross result of something which was or is fine. At the end of Universe - end of Kalp, everything goes back ( turns back to fine) to the Supreme.

So how chair goes back to fine ? or am I making some basic mistake ?

[wundermonk]

I think there may be (as is always the case when dealing with Advaita) a mistake in taking into account aspects of the two levels of reality Advaita refers to.

In Advaita, there is ultimately no creation, transformation, preservation or dissolution (srishti-sthithi-pralaya). So, it is not that at the end of a Kalpa, the constituents of a chair will dissolve into something finer, etc.

As a contrast, let compare the Nyaya view of the world and the Advaita view. Nyaya is a robust realist school and includes as a part of its metaphysics the reality of "universals". That is, the same universal, "cowness" abides in all particular cows. The universals are indestructible even if all of its particulars are destroyed.

Advaita accepts only the reality of one highest universal. That universal is simply called "existence" or "reality" or sat.

So, what abides in all particulars (including you, the chair, pot, elephant, earthworm, etc) is the universal "existence". This universal is also Brahman.

The universal "existence" manifests in common parlance as "is"ness as I had mentioned in my earlier post.

[devotee]

Namaste AIH,

If I want to compare myself with the chair or table. Am I and this chair or table are the same things? Do we have same essence in us ?

No, unless you are assuming your body as your "I". Your body and chair and a table are quite similar. However, "you" are different. The whole creation is due to two elements : MAyA and reflection of Brahman on the MAyic object from its substratum which is Brahman (in fact there is another too i.e. the past impressions). Now, "I" has a special characteristics which a chair and table don't have. This "I" of yours enjoys, suffers, prays to God, performs action and takes the credit of the action performed and thus gets bound by Karmas, feels its limitations and aims to be beyond all limitations (get liberated) etc. So, there is some difference for sure. Imho, the difference is how much of MAyA and how much of Brahman's reflection goes into making it. In crude language, the brighter the light of Brahman shines through an object and lesser element of MAyA is, the more conscious and intelligent it is. The lower the brightness of Brahman and more of MAyA within an object of perception, the lower the consciousness and intelligence within the object.

However, there is no object in this universe which is without these two elements i.e. the MAyA and the reflection of Brahman.

It has been said that at the end of world - kalp everything turns in to gas and get merged with the Supreme One. So if at the end of world - Kalp, this chair - table will able be - with some process - turn into gas and merged in the Supreme. So how me and chair are the same ? What is essence chair which is similar to my essence.

No, no. Things won't turn into gas and merge into something called Brahman/Supreme which is outside of anything. The manifest world would change into unmanifest ... on total devolution but would again manifest at proper time. This cycle is endless.

OM

[Nondual]

devotee has answered it adequately, yet I too will try. In the state of maya, there are distinctions between various objects - so the very question "is dream object, a, the same as dream object, b?" becomes absurd. In the dual state in which we are, there are differences just as differences persist in our dream states. But in the state of turiya, there is only Brahman.

[AmIHindu]

Namaste AIH,



No, unless you are assuming your body as your "I". Your body and chair and a table are quite similar. However, "you" are different. The whole creation is due to two elements : MAyA and reflection of Brahman on the MAyic object from its substratum which is Brahman (in fact there is another too i.e. the past impressions). Now, "I" has a special characteristics which a chair and table don't have. This "I" of yours enjoys, suffers, prays to God, performs action and takes the credit of the action performed and thus gets bound by Karmas, feels its limitations and aims to be beyond all limitations (get liberated) etc. So, there is some difference for sure. Imho, the difference is how much of MAyA and how much of Brahman's reflection goes into making it. In crude language, the brighter the light of Brahman shines through an object and lesser element of MAyA is, the more conscious and intelligent it is. The lower the brightness of Brahman and more of MAyA within an object of perception, the lower the consciousness and intelligence within the object.

However, there is no object in this universe which is without these two elements i.e. the MAyA and the reflection of Brahman.



No, no. Things won't turn into gas and merge into something called Brahman/Supreme which is outside of anything. The manifest world would change into unmanifest ... on total devolution but would again manifest at proper time. This cycle is endless.

OM

Namaste Devotee ji,

My understanding says that so far there is life ( Atman) in my body I am separate from table chair mountains - rivers - stones. But when I am dead my body is some mixture of panchmahabut(File basic Elements)which is same as table - chair - mountain - river - made of Five Elements.
When I have life ( Atama - reflection of Supreme God) in my body, me and table are different so far I do not have Knowledge i.e. I am surrounded with Maya. So we are all different from table so far we do not have Knowledge or we are all with Maya or we are not Self Realized.

"""Now, "I" has a special characteristics which a chair and table don't have. This "I" of yours enjoys, suffers, prays to God, performs action and takes the credit of the action performed and thus gets bound by Karmas, feels its limitations and aims to be beyond all limitations (get liberated) etc""""

My understanding say, so far this my " I " suffers - prays - performs actions - takes credit - and binds with Karma is Ego and not my Atman. Am I correct ? but when I am Self Realized, I do not have all these limitations.

'''''The manifest world would change into unmanifest .'''''

That is what I also tried to say but different language. On evolution everything becomes manifest from Supreme Self and on involution everything goes back to Supreme Self. Now how all these - table - chair - mountain - river - Sun - Moon goes back !!! I guess through very slow disintegration, turns in to gases - I read somewhere.

Lastly, apologies for late reply, but I wanted to give proper time and importance to the Topic.

[devotee]

Namaste AmIHindu,

My understanding say, so far this my " I " suffers - prays - performs actions - takes credit - and binds with Karma is Ego and not my Atman. Am I correct ? but when I am Self Realized, I do not have all these limitations.

Yes, when you are Self-realised, you have no such limitations. "I" i.e. Aahamkaar or say "Ego" (I am not very comfortable with this translation but as far our discussion is it is ok) is one of the constituents that make the Jeeva or the "being" which we are. It is bundle of Manas (the observing mind), Buddhi (Intellect), Chit (Store-house of all mental impressions/memories also known as Samskaar in sanskrit) and Ahamkaar (that claims to own the entity). It is all made of MAyA illumined with reflection of AtmA.

'''''The manifest world would change into unmanifest .'''''

That is what I also tried to say but different language. On evolution everything becomes manifest from Supreme Self and on involution everything goes back to Supreme Self.

That is better as your English is better than mine.

Now how all these - table - chair - mountain - river - Sun - Moon goes back !!! I guess through very slow disintegration, turns in to gases - I read somewhere.

No, it won't happen by slow disintegration as it would only disintegrate the matter into its constituents but matter would still be there in some other form. Please remember that even gas is a matter and even if all changes into energy, it is still within the material existence of the world. So, for actually becoming unmanifest ... imho, (I don't really know and can only guess), it has to merge into some Infinite Black Hole or something like that and reside there as memory until evolution starts all over again with that memory.

OM

[jthomasnaz]

Namaste,

In Advaita, it is said that we are all One, and each and every life is progressing towards Self Realization but at their own pace.
Every life - means all living life, including smallest of warm - insect - bacteria.

Now when we say, we are all One, means essence inside us is the One. So this is true just in case of lives only ?? If I want to use this concept of Oneness for non- lively things , then what is the explanation.

If I want to compare myself with the chair or table. Am I and this chair or table are the same things? Do we have same essence in us ?

It has been said that at the end of world - kalp everything turns in to gas and get merged with the Supreme One. So if at the end of world - Kalp, this chair - table will able be - with some process - turn into gas and merged in the Supreme. So how me and chair are the same ? What is essence chair which is similar to my essence.

Awareness of atman also causes awareness of the omnipresence of Atman. Atman can be seen in all animate and inanimate objects. Quantum physics shows that everything in the universe acts like thought. Everything is created and exists in the thoughts of God.

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namast�

Oneness - We are one.

Why do we not ~feel~ like one ?

iti śivaṁ