McDonalds in India

[sanjaya]

Wow, now I feel bad that my whole family eats at McDonald's here in the US (and my parents would be big time vegetarians even if we weren't Hindu). Granted, it's not like we eat there often. There's not much we can eat since it's mostly meat, so it's more of a once a month affair where someone stops by for pancakes or an ice cream cone. I sometimes grab a diet Coke, but that's about it. In India where no one slaughters cattle, it's easy to pick out the one business that in its home country is known for its hamburgers. But here in America virtually everyone eats and sells meat. Growing up Hindu and vegetarian over here, you get used to finding the one vegetarian thing at the steakhouse. If I were to boycott businesses that sell meat, I'd have to boycott almost everything. That's not practical, so I just recognize that I'm the minority here and can't expect everyone to accomodate me.

Now in India the situation is a bit different, because Hindus are the majority and everyone should accomodate us. But I'm guessing that this is what McDonald's is doing, since they aren't selling beef. If they were trying to lobby the government to legalize beef sales or otherwise undermine Hinduism I think we'd have a problem here. But if they are only, as Believer put it, filling needs that already exist, then what's the problem? If you guys want to ban something, go and ban Christian missionaries. Right off the top of my head, that's a problem that is both more dangerous to Hinduism and easier to solve (since you're not going after single corporation with lawyers and billions of American dollars). Or if you really want to do something to end a major theat to Hinduism, stop voting for corrupt politicians. Fighting McDonald's just seems like a whole lot of wasted effort.

[orlando]

Namaste all.

Perhaps Sanjaya is right.

I think that it is not only not pratical but even useless to boycott every market where meat is selled or buyed.

I believe that all we(vegetarians) can do to change the world in this regard is to stay vegetarian and talk about vegetarian diet to other people.

Regards,
Orlando.

[charitra]

Now in India the situation is a bit different, because Hindus are the majority and everyone should accomodate us. But I'm guessing that this is what McDonald's is doing, since they aren't selling beef. If they were trying to lobby the government to legalize beef sales or otherwise undermine Hinduism I think we'd have a problem here.

Beef is sold in most of India barring a few states. It is LEGAL to sell beef, 'cause it is a democracy. Mc D isnt doing it in order to keep the hindu customers happy, just like most other restraunts there. If you want to sell (beef) burgers you will get a license !!

[Believer]

Namaste,

There are three components to hatred/boycott of McD and WalMart:

1. Nationalism, which is a good reason, but now a days no one cares about that.
2. Protecting the culture and the small businesses. That is a noble reason and I wish more people would think about that and do the right thing, but again, no one cares about it.
3. Blatant ethnocentric hatred towards the West and towards US. That is a misplaced psychological anomaly that needs to be corrected.

Here are a couple of concrete examples about the adaptation of technology and of modernization patterns:

Technology: When Indian businesses started to introduce computers in offices, there were so many strikes in India because of the perception that the unemployment would go through the roof. The commies of West Bengal were the most vocal opponents. 20-25 years later, nothing moves without computers. Loss of any low level clerical jobs was compensated by high paying IT jobs. Commerce grew to an extent that every major co. in US went to India to have software written for them. Call Centers opened up because of the advances in digital technology and satellite communication systems. The prestige that India commands today in the world arena because of this is unparalleled. And everyone walks around with a cell phone. The proponents of tin cans joined by a cotton thread as a communication tool lost out on that front too.

Modernization: In many cities, Anil Ambani has a chain of grocery stores where produce bought directly from the farmers is sold and others can't even come close to his prices. He owns a chain of optometry stores where you can get your eyes tested and glasses made at a cheaper fixed price than elsewhere. I don't see people lining up to boycott Ambani. And then there are so many department stores which operate in every big city, on the US model but are not as large. They provide a stiff competition to independents. Here in the US, medium sized hardware stores sprung up in the 60s and 70s, which drove the mom and pop places out of business. Then the mega home building stores like Home Depot chain came along and wiped out the mid sized home building material stores. Industry and commerce follow money. To lose sight of that and in a fit of nostalgia, to wish for the simpler older times is fruitless. Modernization will win out, whether we like it or not.

May I suggest my brothren to assess the situation during daylight hours under the bright sun and not in isolation, in a dark dungeon at night time. Using the gift of intellect, we should do what is right but not fight progress. After all, the hip city crowds in India are hip because they embrace modernity. And they are not going to make a U-turn and follow you in hating everything Western.

Pranam.

[ShivaFan]

Namaste

Believer as always brings up very brilliant points, one of which caught my attention "(quote Believer ity crowds in India are hip because they embrace modernity".

I also see technology as an inference towards "modernity". The winners who are "soldiers" of Hinduism use the art of technology and the innovations of "modernity" to their advantage, and that is (in my humble opinion) the way to go about this. This very forum is an example of using web technology, and technology allows us to communicate with each other. Though I may be washing with a "wide brush", but I also seem to notice that (since I am a technologist myself and surrounded by such) many of those within the "community" of technology are either already Hindus (such as myself) or are very interested, or are very open to such. Many have good ideation around what we call Vedic knowledge. In other words, many who are "building the infrastructure and virtual highway" are themselves "closet" or very open Eastern Minds (to steal EM's handle).

"Presentation" is important (e.g. the "cover of the book", first impressions, et all). McDonalds is the wrong message but put in a nice and "clean" package. Now imagine vegetarian outlets put into similar "clean" package, run by those who intermix technology with the atmosphere of the establishment - in California you see a lot of this sort of thing, an example is new style grocery chains that focus on vegan and health foods. But you can mix Sanatana Dharma into your "work" and thus into the "business" - and why not? Actually, it should be expected.

I hate to bring up the example of the Jains again, but consider a "religion" which in its core principles you find examples of "sky clad" (naked) adherents but they have their community which uses technology and, frankly cleanliness, as part of "presentation" and it works very well.

I think two things can win over the next generation that Hindus should make use of: Technology and, as odd as it sounds, "cleanliness".

Om Namah Sivaya

[ShriBala]

False assumption: if one doesn't embrace walmart/mcd, one is against modernization/technology or is a commie tool.

[Jodhaa]

I believe India is going through this wave of modernization and globalization because it's the natural result of influence from the outside. It may be harmful, but as Believer mentioned it's probably inevitable. However, I see a slightly more optimistic outcome in the end, far down the road.

While it's true that big business and and major chains still dominate in the US there has been a backlash in the last decade against those institutions. Largely thanks to - I hate to say it - "Hipsters". There are large pockets in this country that are fed up with big business and do what they can to either shop local or shop handmade. Now, they don't have a lot of influence outside their own communities yet - but give it a few generations and I think the trend will continue to grow. Hipster adults have hipster babies. Walmart and McD will never go away, but they haven't destroyed small town America quite yet - try as they might.

I think India is going to go through this as well. Walmart and McD will have their awful golden age there too, but eventually everything cycles back. It's the same on a smaller scale with trends in fashion, art and music. What was once out-dated is now "retro" or "vintage", as they say.

All the individual can do is live the example they wish to set for others.

Peace!

[Little-Bear]

Even before I was a Hindu, I never went to McDonald's or Wal-Mart. After working at Wal-Mart, you never want to set foot in there again. As for McDonald's, the food they serve is gross. I think the only reason I would ever eat there is to jump off a cliff and see what kills me first.

It'd be in India's best interest to boycott these companies.

[Believer]

Namaste,

After working at Wal-Mart, you never want to set foot in there again.

I never had the misfortune of working there and getting so turned off.
Occasionally, I do my selective shopping of not-made-in-China items at the neighborhood Wal Mart without disgust or guilt.

As for McDonald's, the food they serve is gross. I think the only reason I would ever eat there is to jump off a cliff and see what kills me first.

In my travels, I have found the golden arches to be such a welcoming sign, for a cheap cup of coffee and for free use of the restrooms. I hate paying 4-5 Euros for a cup of coffee, or a Euro in many countries for a quick standing-up trip to the restroom.

That said, I am not advocating patronizing either of the chains or boycotting them.

Pranam.

[sanjaya]

Beef is sold in most of India barring a few states. It is LEGAL to sell beef, 'cause it is a democracy. Mc D isnt doing it in order to keep the hindu customers happy, just like most other restraunts there. If you want to sell (beef) burgers you will get a license !!

Really? Well, what do I know, being a fake Indian and all.

I asked a real Indian about this recently, and he said beef is illegal. This guy is from Gujarat, maybe that's one of the no-beef states or something? In any case, I think they probably are doing it to keep Hindus happy. Unless you're specifically catering to a niche market, it's good business practice to keep people happy. I'm sure McDonald's doesn't actually care about Hindus or Hinduism (what company does?), but it seems to me like it's in their best interests to cater to the majority religion, so to speak. And again: if they are interested in selling beef, it's obvious that it's because someone in India wants it. What's going on here? Is McDonald's the place for Christian missionaries to go eat when they're not busy converting Hindus? Or maybe is it that said missionaries poison Hindu culture, thus resulting in people wanting to eat beef? The latter, I think.

To the people here who live in India I'd say the following. If you think this is a problem, then raise your kids to be good Hindus, to stay away from the missionaries (seriously, I've always said that we should regard Christianity the same way people view drugs, as a morally negative practice that hurts people), and not eat meat. If there's no market, McDonald's won't serve meat. I really don't see why anyone would attack a company selling beef and leave the beefeaters guiltless.