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  1. #1

    Jnana Yoga for beginners?

    Namaste!

    I have never done any yogic or meditational excercises, and I plan to start now! I know it's a long shot to immediately start Jnana Yoga, so I'm asking how to begin? Perhaps first some simple meditational techniques? Then Bhakti? And finally Jnan?
    Please also specify the time needed for the excercise.

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    Re: Jnana Yoga for beginners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yogic_lighter View Post
    Namaste!

    I have never done any yogic or meditational excercises, and I plan to start now! I know it's a long shot to immediately start Jnana Yoga, so I'm asking how to begin? Perhaps first some simple meditational techniques? Then Bhakti? And finally Jnan?
    Please also specify the time needed for the excercise.
    Namaste Yogic_lighter

    Welcome to HDF !

    How familiar are you will Jnana Marg / Advaita Vedanta. Did you do any type of course or have you read any scriptures?

    this is indeed a difficult question to answer. I would suggest you to learn meditation from an Advaita Guru, but first you need to read and be familiar to Advaita Vedanta and for that you will need to read advaita shastras.

    Aum
    IS
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  3. #3

    Re: Jnana Yoga for beginners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Indiaspirituality View Post
    Namaste Yogic_lighter

    Welcome to HDF !

    How familiar are you will Jnana Marg / Advaita Vedanta. Did you do any type of course or have you read any scriptures?

    this is indeed a difficult question to answer. I would suggest you to learn meditation from an Advaita Guru, but first you need to read and be familiar to Advaita Vedanta and for that you will need to read advaita shastras.

    Aum
    IS
    Namaste Indiaspirituality,
    Thank you for your answer.

    No I haven't taken a course, but I've read some books about Advaita and read some Upanishads. I'm quite familiar with the idea the Advaita is addressing, but of course I'm far from being an expert in it.
    I'm also giving Advaita a lot of time, and I'm willing to learn it, although I know it is very dificult and not for all to learn. So I just need a technique to start with, and to practice it everyday. Since like I said, I've never practiced Yoga in my life, and just need a start.

  4. #4

    Re: Jnana Yoga for beginners?

    Also, I forgot to add:
    Unfortunately, I can't get a guru. They are just not available in my country. I think I would even have a problem seeking a self-realized guru in India, much less in other countries.

  5. #5

    Re: Jnana Yoga for beginners?

    Namaste!

    Sorry for the delayed posting, I posted earlier, though I don't know why it didn't come through.
    I am quite familiar with the general idea of Advaita. I've read some Upanishads and some Advaita books.
    Unfortunately, I cannot find a guru, specially in my country. And like I said, I know Advaita is not for all, and is very difficult, I want to learn it, and am willing.

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    Re: Jnana Yoga for beginners?

    Namaste,

    since you are new to the forum, to check spam, posts of new members are moderated (generally upto 10 posts).

    This is also the reason why they do not show up and I do not get email notification of a post approved by moderator.

    Coming back to topic, I would frankly say that Advaita is not for beginners.

    You should have moksha as the only goal of life and should be ready to try to be neutral in good and bad situations. I do not say you should stay, but try to stay.

    I meditate on OM, but I have been told that OM is not for worldly minded people, since OM up-roots all desires, be it good or bad.

    So in case if you want to fulfill desires, then OM will try to up-root them when you meditate and this will frustrate you, since you do not want to renounce them, but want to fulfill them. this is the reason why a person following advaita vedanta will have to renounce desires, except some compulsory ones like earning for living (and not living for earning).

    To problem with advaita is that unlike Yog, it does have have any easy beginners steps. The goal and practice is same since day one till end. In Yog, this is not the case, there are breathing exercises (pranayam) and then some energy based techniques. As on progresses, one is taught higher kriyas.

    Even in bhakti, one can have initial steps like visiting hopy places, visiting temples (though they can be considered in karma yog also), perform daily worship (puja) and then later on when mind is purified, go for chanting mantras.

    In advaita at the most steps would be to chant a mantra verbally, then mentally and then the mantra flows from heart making it effortless. The mantra continues by itself and one has to be aware of the mantra and later on source of mantra.

    The pure path is neti-neti or Self Enquiry. ad e.g. would be Adi Shankaracharya's Nirvan Shatakam / Atma Shatakam

    So you will have to first be mentally prepared to have moksha as the only goal and then try to sit for meditation.

    If you are able to sit for 45 minutes for the first time you meditate, then generally it is considered the the one is sit to meditate. For the first time, God definitely helps on to meditate. Some people try to meditate from 10 minutes and then go on till 45 minutes then upto 90 minutes ( 1 1/2 hours) and then upto 3 hours.

    Neti Neti is for very pure minds and most people prefer or are told to do OM chanting. But still I would caution you, that OM is not for everybody. If you are willing to surrender your entire life for God, willing keep god in center of all activities and ready to quit activities that are not compulsory, then go for it.

    I do not want to discourage you, but to live the advaita way you have to apply it in practical life, else it's just theories. You may believe whatever you want, you are are not speaking from direct experience and your words lack experience and hence they will be hollow.

    I would suggest to go for bhakti and later on shift to advaita. Many prefer to chant Om Namah Shivaya, and worship Shiva - linga, a formless aspect or natural symbolic representation of Lord Shiva.

    Karma Yog (Yog of Action) is for removing impurities in mind. It is called as MaLa

    Bhakti Yog or Upaasna Yog (path of devotion) is for removing mental agitation called vikshepa

    Jnana Yog (advaita Vedanta) is for removing ignorance called avaran.

    I would caution you to think it before meditating on OM. If you at all decide, then meditate for 45 minutes for the first time. Just chant OM it may be 5 second long chant or 10 second long chant, it does not matter. Begin the meditation by

    Praying to God to teach you how to meditate ( I did this in my beginning days).
    Pray to God to show correct path and guide you in your life.
    Pray to God to accept your surrender.
    Pray to God to give me what is best for me.

    Prayers work wonders.

    Do not try to be aware of breath or sync your mantra with breath. Just keep chanting. Need need to be aware of any specific area of body or chakra (energy centers) though it is common to be aware or feel pressure on center of eye brows, but all does not have this experience.

    On the other hand, if you just want to begin your spiritual journey and want to learn to meditate, not specific to advaita, then I would suggest you to be aware of your breath for 10 minutes. Do not try to force to breath. Breathing wont stop. If thoughts come, just ignore them and be aware. Do this for 10 minutes, same place, same time. Better sit on one place. If you cannot keep your back straight, then rest it on the wall or keep a pillow behind your back. Continue it for 1 month (30 days) and you will feel the difference. If you get lost on dreams or pulled on thoughts, then just relax, do not force yourself to concentrate on breathing. It's not advisable. Just convince or explain your mind to just let go all thoughts, smile and bring back focus on breath. Then just be aware of breath.

    This should be really helpful and will make you fresh. Practice this for 10 minutes before going to sleep and immediately after waking up. There is no restriction of meditating timing or place, but a quiet place will be helpful. You can do it after dinner too, since there is no physical process, but I would prefer to atleast do it after 30 minutes or 1 hour of lunch / dinner.

    Though I am meditating since 13 years, I do not consider my self an authority on spirituality, so these thoughts are my personal ones. Hope others would be able to help you more.

    Aum
    IS
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  7. #7

    Re: Jnana Yoga for beginners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Indiaspirituality View Post

    Coming back to topic, I would frankly say that Advaita is not for beginners.

    You should have moksha as the only goal of life and should be ready to try to be neutral in good and bad situations. I do not say you should stay, but try to stay.
    Namaste Indiasprituality,

    I know that Advaita is not for beginners, but everyone has to start somewhere, right?
    I also have read the conditions for being an Advaitin. I also, have to say, that Advaita very much relates and coincides with my life. I really just don't enjoy life much, and I don't really like to socialize, or pursuit wordly pleasures. I think that was the main reason why I was drawn to Advaita.

    I meditate on OM, but I have been told that OM is not for worldly minded people, since OM up-roots all desires, be it good or bad.
    Can you please specify how you do that? I sometimes listen to the sound "Om" at the internet. But how to "meditate" on it? Do you "pronounce" it in your mind? Or do you pronounce it out loud? I'm sorry if I sound silly to you, but like I said I'm just a beginner.
    So in case if you want to fulfill desires, then OM will try to up-root them when you meditate and this will frustrate you, since you do not want to renounce them, but want to fulfill them. this is the reason why a person following advaita vedanta will have to renounce desires, except some compulsory ones like earning for living (and not living for earning).
    I am willing to give up all the desires.
    So in case if you want to fulfill desires, then OM will try to up-root them when you meditate and this will frustrate you, since you do not want to renounce them, but want to fulfill them. this is the reason why a person following advaita vedanta will have to renounce desires, except some compulsory ones like earning for living (and not living for earning).
    So by that, I think you mean that, I have to meditate constantly on Om, but the duration of the time of meditation, would differ on my level, right?
    In advaita at the most steps would be to chant a mantra verbally, then mentally and then the mantra flows from heart making it effortless. The mantra continues by itself and one has to be aware of the mantra and later on source of mantra.
    Should I chant a mantra before chanting Om? What is the difference? Also, what mantra would you recommend?
    The pure path is neti-neti or Self Enquiry. ad e.g. would be Adi Shankaracharya's Nirvan Shatakam / Atma Shatakam

    So you will have to first be mentally prepared to have moksha as the only goal and then try to sit for meditation.
    The neti-neti is for advanced meditation. Obviously, I'm not on that level.
    If you are able to sit for 45 minutes for the first time you meditate, then generally it is considered the the one is sit to meditate. For the first time, God definitely helps on to meditate. Some people try to meditate from 10 minutes and then go on till 45 minutes then upto 90 minutes ( 1 1/2 hours) and then upto 3 hours.
    So, I need to try and increase my meditation in time. But can you please specify the intervals of time, for me to shift from a specific duration to another. For example, first, I meditate (on a specific mantra) for 30 minutes. Then after for example 3 months, I will start meditating for an hour, etc..
    I do not want to discourage you, but to live the advaita way you have to apply it in practical life, else it's just theories. You may believe whatever you want, you are are not speaking from direct experience and your words lack experience and hence they will be hollow.
    Rest assured, you are not discouraging me. I didn't exactly just look at the wikipedia page of Advaita, and wanted to become a follower. I have read the prerequistes of following Advaita, and the sacrifices needed to be made.
    I would suggest to go for bhakti and later on shift to advaita. Many prefer to chant Om Namah Shivaya, and worship Shiva - linga, a formless aspect or natural symbolic representation of Lord Shiva.
    Is there no path except first following bhakti? I'm not trying to jump to a higher level or anything, I just don't like worshiping. But if there is no other way, I will go for it.
    Again, do I sound "Om Namah Shivaya" in my mind? And keep repeating it for the whole duration of the meditation process?
    What I gather from meditation is that, the main focus should be on the mantra you want to meditate upon. So I just keep repeating "Om....Om....Om...Om" etc.., and if another tought comes to my mind, I would just dismiss it, and try to focus again on my mantra. Am I making some sense?
    I would caution you to think it before meditating on OM. If you at all decide, then meditate for 45 minutes for the first time. Just chant OM it may be 5 second long chant or 10 second long chant, it does not matter. Begin the meditation by
    So, I chant "Oooooooooooommmmmmm"?

    I think I will start by the breathing excercise for 10-15 minutes for a month, then start meditating on mantras. And then, while I advance, with the Om mantra.
    Thanks for all your advises.

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    Re: Jnana Yoga for beginners?

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namast

    I am happy for your interest and enthusiasm... that said it seems you are trying to boil the ocean i.e. doing too much in a short period of time.

    you mention,
    I have read the prerequistes of following Advaita, and the sacrifices needed to be made.
    Can you, in your own words articulate what you believe the pre-requisites are ?

    you mention,
    I am willing to give up all the desires.
    Tell us how you plan to go about this? Can you inform us what the differences will be between a desire, and your intent to grow and mature ? Which will you keep , which will you discard ? What of the desire for well-being, health, for liberation? Are these tossed in the trash or acted upon?
    you mention,
    For example, first, I meditate (on a specific mantra) for 30 minutes. Then after for example 3 months, I will start meditating for an hour, etc..
    What is the best mantra for your use ? Three months of its use ? then changing it ? It's like uprooting a plant that has been in the ground to see if it has taken root.

    There is much to know - and there is a foundation to build. One starts with the ground and its conditions, then begins to lay the brick work accordingly.

    iti śiva

    Last edited by yajvan; 12 December 2012 at 06:44 AM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Jnana Yoga for beginners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yogic_lighter View Post
    Namaste Indiasprituality,

    Can you please specify how you do that? I sometimes listen to the sound "Om" at the internet. But how to "meditate" on it? Do you "pronounce" it in your mind? Or do you pronounce it out loud? I'm sorry if I sound silly to you, but like I said I'm just a beginner.
    Namaste,

    I appreciate your determination.

    You simply chant OM initially verbally but not too loud, softly. Then after 2 - 3 weeks, when you are comfortable chant mentally. Begin with praying. Please refer to the post Sadhana (meditation). along with others, I have also given my thoughts. Please refer Post #8 #9 #12 and #13. I think this would be helpful.


    I am willing to give up all the desires.
    That's a good sign.

    So by that, I think you mean that, I have to meditate constantly on Om, but the duration of the time of meditation, would differ on my level, right?

    Should I chant a mantra before chanting Om? What is the difference? Also, what mantra would you recommend?
    Yes, as said earlier, let the first try be for 45 minutes. If you can sit for 45 minutes in first attempt, then you can go ahead with OM. It does not matter if you have never chanted OM. For the first time, chant OM mentally and just let go. also be aware of gap between 2 OM. If you are able to sit for 45 minutes then we can think of something ahead. I have been meditating since 13 years and on advaita since 9 years.

    There is no mantra or invocation for beginning and ending but you can definitely pray. OM is everything.


    For the first time, I could sit for 45 minutes, even though I had never meditated. I simply prayed to God

    1. Oh God, your child has come at your refuge, please accept my surrender
    2. Oh God, guide me through this meditation
    3. Oh God, I do not know how to meditate, please teach me !
    4. Oh God, give me what is best for me


    So, I need to try and increase my meditation in time. But can you please specify the intervals of time, for me to shift from a specific duration to another. For example, first, I meditate (on a specific mantra) for 30 minutes. Then after for example 3 months, I will start meditating for an hour, etc..
    Please try for 45 minutes for first time. Then we can talk after your first experience.

    I have read the prerequistes of following Advaita, and the sacrifices needed to be made.

    As Shri Yajvan ji has said, please can you let me know what shastras or bokks have you read like Gita, Vivek chudamani, tatva Bodh, etc.

    Is there no path except first following bhakti? I'm not trying to jump to a higher level or anything, I just don't like worshiping. But if there is no other way, I will go for it.
    Bhakti is the foundation. If you do not like worshiping, then you can chant mantra.

    Again, do I sound "Om Namah Shivaya" in my mind? And keep repeating it for the whole duration of the meditation process?
    Yes, but lets see after your first attempt.

    What I gather from meditation is that, the main focus should be on the mantra you want to meditate upon. So I just keep repeating "Om....Om....Om...Om" etc.., and if another tought comes to my mind, I would just dismiss it, and try to focus again on my mantra. Am I making some sense?

    So, I chant "Oooooooooooommmmmmm"?
    Yes. It can be Ooooooouuuuummmm. The length of OOOO or uuu or mmm can be anything. No need to control it or try to chant equal parts of each O U M Or it can be Oooooooommmm i.e. O M. U is a transition and so may not be prominent. Everyone chants differently.

    I know you may have a blank feeling since you do not have any experience. But just do it. After prayers if God wishes it will happen. do not worry too much.

    I think I will start by the breathing excercise for 10-15 minutes for a month, then start meditating on mantras. And then, while I advance, with the Om mantra.
    Thanks for all your advises.
    As I have earlier said, first try for 45 minutes, later on we will see. But this is good thing to start.

    So, I need to try and increase my meditation in time. But can you please specify the intervals of time, for me to shift from a specific duration to another. For example, first, I meditate (on a specific mantra) for 30 minutes. Then after for example 3 months, I will start meditating for an hour, etc..
    It all depends upon your mindset, renunciation, force of surrender, faith and above all, will of God. So it all depends. Just begin and we will see.

    Also note that you can shift from bhakti i.e. OM Namah Shivaya to Just OM. Infact, god will change it if advaita suits you. It happened to me. I was attracted to Lord Hanuman and like you, I did not knew anything what to chant. So I began chanting Jai Bajarangbali, Jai shri Ram. I didn't knew if this is a correct mantra. Then one day the image of lord hanuman so strongly got hold of me i.e. I could not deviate my attention from the image (in my mind) that I could not even sleep. But I remained fresh. At that time I was practicing Yog meditations too under Pranic Healing. When I was handed over to Advaita Guru (please note that I did not qute pranic healing). I got a strong feeling to follow what that guy was saying. After second meeting, I was told to meditate on OM. So there was a clash of 2 mantra. I prayed to God and surrendered, but kept chanting OM.

    Later on when time passed, the mantra changed automatically To just Jai Shri Ram. I tried to correct it to the original one, but after 3-4 chants, it automatically changed to Jai Shri Ram.

    Still Jai Shri Ram would pop up anytime in day while at work. So I was confused. After some time, maybe a month or even less, Jai Shri got replaced with OM. It was then that meditation began. It all happened. I simply surrender to God daily and prayed to show me a way, since even though I had left chanting Jai Shri Ram, It would occasionally pop up. That that was solved quickly and OM automatically replaced Jai Shri Ram.

    The transition from Jai Bajarang Bali to Jai Shri Ram to OM would be a month or so. After that I was happy with OM and whenever I surrender and prayed before meditation and asked for guidance, immediately OM started. So I knew it was right for me.

    Do not worry too much.

    All you need is

    1. Willingness to renounce.
    2. Give only god importance
    3. Strong faith and surrender with full force.
    4. Determination
    5. Don't quit

    As I have said earlier, Just try to chant OM mentally for 45 minutes. Later on after your experience we will see.

    I know I have told you to initially start chanting verbally, but for first time, just chant mentally for 45 minutes as a stretch.

    Good Luck.

    Aum
    IS
    Last edited by Amrut; 12 December 2012 at 12:52 AM.
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

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    Re: Jnana Yoga for beginners?

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namast

    Quote Originally Posted by Yogic_lighter View Post
    The neti-neti is for advanced meditation.
    One needs to better appreciate the meaning of this notion...let me add the following from a past post for one's kind consideration:


    The tapas of renunciation is of great interest to many. This notion of renunciation some call out 'neti-neti' . This is from na-iti . This na = not and iti ; in the brāhmaṇas 'iti' is often equivalent to 'as you know'. Hence na-iti is 'not as you know, not as you perceive'. This is saying you are not what you see. What is being renounced is the false knowledge of what here and now really is.

    Now this renunciation ~typically~ is accompanied/groomed with the idea of detachment over time. The common word used for detachment is vairāgya and we find this in patajalis yogadarśana ( yoga sūtra's) :

    dṛṣṭānuśravikaviṣayavitṛṣṇasya vaśīkārasaṃjā vairāgyam || 15

    Let's see how this word aligns with renunciation. Vairāgyam is defined as aversion , indifference to worldly objects and to life i.e. not this , not this ( neti neti ). It is not defined as 'detachment' , yet this idea does come up in the progression to the full blossoming of vairāgya.
    The word closest to detachment is vyatireka and is defined as distinction, seperation, difference and we find it in this progression ( to vairāgya) I have suggested.
    If we look at this vairāgya by some of its roots , it is that heroic movement away from those things that bind, abondoning those things of the world, that are inimical (adverse in tendency or effect).

    The wise say there is a progression to this state . Here we have the 4 steps (pada):
    • yatamāna - yata = restrained + māna = pride, arrogance. Hence we can see the constraint
      of the small self, the self-centeredness one may have. Now there are some that suggests this is the restraint of sensuous enjoyments.
    • vyatireka - seperation, distinction, difference. This occurs when yatamāna begins to find firm footing in one's daily life. Some may call this detachment, but note it is not the final destination.
    • ekaendriya - this is defined as having but one organ of sense. This has several meanings.
      It suggests that all the organs of sense are subdued/managed accordingly. Yet what is that one ~organ~ that remains intact? It is said the mind remains.
    • vaśīkāra - is the making of power and control - one now has contol power over the senses. We see this in the 15th sūtra patajali-ji offers: dṛṣṭānuśravikaviṣayavitṛṣṇasya vaśīkārasaṃjā vairāgyam ||
    It is these four steps that lead to the 5th vairāgya , that heroic movement to the aversion , indifference to worldly objects and to life. You see this just does not happen, but is the march ( pada) to this condition. It is from this foundation that one is able to successfully renounce.

    iti śiva

    words
    • tapas - is from 'tapa' , heating up; tapas is observances, an approach ; tapasya
    • brāhmaṇas - we find this in the bṛhadaraṇyaka upaniṣad ( some write bṛhadaraṇyakopaniṣad ), mūrta-amūrta brāhmaṇa ( form and formless).
    • roots found in vairāgyam : vaira + ag + ya
      • vaira takes on two ideas :
        • hostile, iminical, revengeful
        • heroism, prowess
      • ag - to move tortuiously
      • ya also takes on few meanings:
        • union ( as to bring the terms above together)
        • restraining, abondoning
        • rooted in means a goer or mover

    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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