Jnana Yoga for beginners?

[Yogic_lighter]

Namaste!

I have never done any yogic or meditational excercises, and I plan to start now! I know it's a long shot to immediately start Jnana Yoga, so I'm asking how to begin? Perhaps first some simple meditational techniques? Then Bhakti? And finally Jnan?
Please also specify the time needed for the excercise.

[Amrut]

Namaste!

I have never done any yogic or meditational excercises, and I plan to start now! I know it's a long shot to immediately start Jnana Yoga, so I'm asking how to begin? Perhaps first some simple meditational techniques? Then Bhakti? And finally Jnan?
Please also specify the time needed for the excercise.

Namaste Yogic_lighter

Welcome to HDF !

How familiar are you will Jnana Marg / Advaita Vedanta. Did you do any type of course or have you read any scriptures?

this is indeed a difficult question to answer. I would suggest you to learn meditation from an Advaita Guru, but first you need to read and be familiar to Advaita Vedanta and for that you will need to read advaita shastras.

Aum
IS

[Yogic_lighter]

Namaste Yogic_lighter

Welcome to HDF !

How familiar are you will Jnana Marg / Advaita Vedanta. Did you do any type of course or have you read any scriptures?

this is indeed a difficult question to answer. I would suggest you to learn meditation from an Advaita Guru, but first you need to read and be familiar to Advaita Vedanta and for that you will need to read advaita shastras.

Aum
IS

Namaste Indiaspirituality,
Thank you for your answer.

No I haven't taken a course, but I've read some books about Advaita and read some Upanishads. I'm quite familiar with the idea the Advaita is addressing, but of course I'm far from being an expert in it.
I'm also giving Advaita a lot of time, and I'm willing to learn it, although I know it is very dificult and not for all to learn. So I just need a technique to start with, and to practice it everyday. Since like I said, I've never practiced Yoga in my life, and just need a start.

[Yogic_lighter]

Also, I forgot to add:
Unfortunately, I can't get a guru. They are just not available in my country. I think I would even have a problem seeking a self-realized guru in India, much less in other countries.

[Yogic_lighter]

Namaste!

Sorry for the delayed posting, I posted earlier, though I don't know why it didn't come through.
I am quite familiar with the general idea of Advaita. I've read some Upanishads and some Advaita books.
Unfortunately, I cannot find a guru, specially in my country. And like I said, I know Advaita is not for all, and is very difficult, I want to learn it, and am willing.

[Amrut]

Namaste,

since you are new to the forum, to check spam, posts of new members are moderated (generally upto 10 posts).

This is also the reason why they do not show up and I do not get email notification of a post approved by moderator.

Coming back to topic, I would frankly say that Advaita is not for beginners.

You should have moksha as the only goal of life and should be ready to try to be neutral in good and bad situations. I do not say you should stay, but try to stay.

I meditate on OM, but I have been told that OM is not for worldly minded people, since OM up-roots all desires, be it good or bad.

So in case if you want to fulfill desires, then OM will try to up-root them when you meditate and this will frustrate you, since you do not want to renounce them, but want to fulfill them. this is the reason why a person following advaita vedanta will have to renounce desires, except some compulsory ones like earning for living (and not living for earning).

To problem with advaita is that unlike Yog, it does have have any easy beginners steps. The goal and practice is same since day one till end. In Yog, this is not the case, there are breathing exercises (pranayam) and then some energy based techniques. As on progresses, one is taught higher kriyas.

Even in bhakti, one can have initial steps like visiting hopy places, visiting temples (though they can be considered in karma yog also), perform daily worship (puja) and then later on when mind is purified, go for chanting mantras.

In advaita at the most steps would be to chant a mantra verbally, then mentally and then the mantra flows from heart making it effortless. The mantra continues by itself and one has to be aware of the mantra and later on source of mantra.

The pure path is neti-neti or Self Enquiry. ad e.g. would be Adi Shankaracharya's Nirvan Shatakam / Atma Shatakam

So you will have to first be mentally prepared to have moksha as the only goal and then try to sit for meditation.

If you are able to sit for 45 minutes for the first time you meditate, then generally it is considered the the one is sit to meditate. For the first time, God definitely helps on to meditate. Some people try to meditate from 10 minutes and then go on till 45 minutes then upto 90 minutes ( 1 1/2 hours) and then upto 3 hours.

Neti Neti is for very pure minds and most people prefer or are told to do OM chanting. But still I would caution you, that OM is not for everybody. If you are willing to surrender your entire life for God, willing keep god in center of all activities and ready to quit activities that are not compulsory, then go for it.

I do not want to discourage you, but to live the advaita way you have to apply it in practical life, else it's just theories. You may believe whatever you want, you are are not speaking from direct experience and your words lack experience and hence they will be hollow.

I would suggest to go for bhakti and later on shift to advaita. Many prefer to chant Om Namah Shivaya, and worship Shiva - linga, a formless aspect or natural symbolic representation of Lord Shiva.

Karma Yog (Yog of Action) is for removing impurities in mind. It is called as MaLa

Bhakti Yog or Upaasna Yog (path of devotion) is for removing mental agitation called vikshepa

Jnana Yog (advaita Vedanta) is for removing ignorance called avaran.

I would caution you to think it before meditating on OM. If you at all decide, then meditate for 45 minutes for the first time. Just chant OM it may be 5 second long chant or 10 second long chant, it does not matter. Begin the meditation by

Praying to God to teach you how to meditate ( I did this in my beginning days).
Pray to God to show correct path and guide you in your life.
Pray to God to accept your surrender.
Pray to God to give me what is best for me.

Prayers work wonders.

Do not try to be aware of breath or sync your mantra with breath. Just keep chanting. Need need to be aware of any specific area of body or chakra (energy centers) though it is common to be aware or feel pressure on center of eye brows, but all does not have this experience.

On the other hand, if you just want to begin your spiritual journey and want to learn to meditate, not specific to advaita, then I would suggest you to be aware of your breath for 10 minutes. Do not try to force to breath. Breathing wont stop. If thoughts come, just ignore them and be aware. Do this for 10 minutes, same place, same time. Better sit on one place. If you cannot keep your back straight, then rest it on the wall or keep a pillow behind your back. Continue it for 1 month (30 days) and you will feel the difference. If you get lost on dreams or pulled on thoughts, then just relax, do not force yourself to concentrate on breathing. It's not advisable. Just convince or explain your mind to just let go all thoughts, smile and bring back focus on breath. Then just be aware of breath.

This should be really helpful and will make you fresh. Practice this for 10 minutes before going to sleep and immediately after waking up. There is no restriction of meditating timing or place, but a quiet place will be helpful. You can do it after dinner too, since there is no physical process, but I would prefer to atleast do it after 30 minutes or 1 hour of lunch / dinner.

Though I am meditating since 13 years, I do not consider my self an authority on spirituality, so these thoughts are my personal ones. Hope others would be able to help you more.

Aum
IS

[Yogic_lighter]

Coming back to topic, I would frankly say that Advaita is not for beginners.

You should have moksha as the only goal of life and should be ready to try to be neutral in good and bad situations. I do not say you should stay, but try to stay.

Namaste Indiasprituality,

I know that Advaita is not for beginners, but everyone has to start somewhere, right?
I also have read the conditions for being an Advaitin. I also, have to say, that Advaita very much relates and coincides with my life. I really just don't enjoy life much, and I don't really like to socialize, or pursuit wordly pleasures. I think that was the main reason why I was drawn to Advaita.

I meditate on OM, but I have been told that OM is not for worldly minded people, since OM up-roots all desires, be it good or bad.

Can you please specify how you do that? I sometimes listen to the sound "Om" at the internet. But how to "meditate" on it? Do you "pronounce" it in your mind? Or do you pronounce it out loud? I'm sorry if I sound silly to you, but like I said I'm just a beginner.

So in case if you want to fulfill desires, then OM will try to up-root them when you meditate and this will frustrate you, since you do not want to renounce them, but want to fulfill them. this is the reason why a person following advaita vedanta will have to renounce desires, except some compulsory ones like earning for living (and not living for earning).

I am willing to give up all the desires.

So in case if you want to fulfill desires, then OM will try to up-root them when you meditate and this will frustrate you, since you do not want to renounce them, but want to fulfill them. this is the reason why a person following advaita vedanta will have to renounce desires, except some compulsory ones like earning for living (and not living for earning).

So by that, I think you mean that, I have to meditate constantly on Om, but the duration of the time of meditation, would differ on my level, right?

In advaita at the most steps would be to chant a mantra verbally, then mentally and then the mantra flows from heart making it effortless. The mantra continues by itself and one has to be aware of the mantra and later on source of mantra.

Should I chant a mantra before chanting Om? What is the difference? Also, what mantra would you recommend?

The pure path is neti-neti or Self Enquiry. ad e.g. would be Adi Shankaracharya's Nirvan Shatakam / Atma Shatakam

So you will have to first be mentally prepared to have moksha as the only goal and then try to sit for meditation.

The neti-neti is for advanced meditation. Obviously, I'm not on that level.

If you are able to sit for 45 minutes for the first time you meditate, then generally it is considered the the one is sit to meditate. For the first time, God definitely helps on to meditate. Some people try to meditate from 10 minutes and then go on till 45 minutes then upto 90 minutes ( 1 1/2 hours) and then upto 3 hours.

So, I need to try and increase my meditation in time. But can you please specify the intervals of time, for me to shift from a specific duration to another. For example, first, I meditate (on a specific mantra) for 30 minutes. Then after for example 3 months, I will start meditating for an hour, etc..

I do not want to discourage you, but to live the advaita way you have to apply it in practical life, else it's just theories. You may believe whatever you want, you are are not speaking from direct experience and your words lack experience and hence they will be hollow.

Rest assured, you are not discouraging me. I didn't exactly just look at the wikipedia page of Advaita, and wanted to become a follower. I have read the prerequistes of following Advaita, and the sacrifices needed to be made.

I would suggest to go for bhakti and later on shift to advaita. Many prefer to chant Om Namah Shivaya, and worship Shiva - linga, a formless aspect or natural symbolic representation of Lord Shiva.

Is there no path except first following bhakti? I'm not trying to jump to a higher level or anything, I just don't like worshiping. But if there is no other way, I will go for it.
Again, do I sound "Om Namah Shivaya" in my mind? And keep repeating it for the whole duration of the meditation process?
What I gather from meditation is that, the main focus should be on the mantra you want to meditate upon. So I just keep repeating "Om....Om....Om...Om" etc.., and if another tought comes to my mind, I would just dismiss it, and try to focus again on my mantra. Am I making some sense?

I would caution you to think it before meditating on OM. If you at all decide, then meditate for 45 minutes for the first time. Just chant OM it may be 5 second long chant or 10 second long chant, it does not matter. Begin the meditation by

So, I chant "Oooooooooooommmmmmm"?

I think I will start by the breathing excercise for 10-15 minutes for a month, then start meditating on mantras. And then, while I advance, with the Om mantra.
Thanks for all your advises.

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namast�

I am happy for your interest and enthusiasm... that said it seems you are trying to boil the ocean i.e. doing too much in a short period of time.

you mention,

I have read the prerequistes of following Advaita, and the sacrifices needed to be made.

Can you, in your own words articulate what you believe the pre-requisites are ?

you mention,

I am willing to give up all the desires.

Tell us how you plan to go about this? Can you inform us what the differences will be between a desire, and your intent to grow and mature ? Which will you keep , which will you discard ? What of the desire for well-being, health, for liberation? Are these tossed in the trash or acted upon?
you mention,

For example, first, I meditate (on a specific mantra) for 30 minutes. Then after for example 3 months, I will start meditating for an hour, etc..

What is the best mantra for your use ? Three months of its use ? then changing it ? It's like uprooting a plant that has been in the ground to see if it has taken root.

There is much to know - and there is a foundation to build. One starts with the ground and its conditions, then begins to lay the brick work accordingly.

iti śivaṁ

[Amrut]

Namaste Indiasprituality,

Can you please specify how you do that? I sometimes listen to the sound "Om" at the internet. But how to "meditate" on it? Do you "pronounce" it in your mind? Or do you pronounce it out loud? I'm sorry if I sound silly to you, but like I said I'm just a beginner.

Namaste,

I appreciate your determination.

You simply chant OM initially verbally but not too loud, softly. Then after 2 - 3 weeks, when you are comfortable chant mentally. Begin with praying. Please refer to the post Sadhana (meditation). along with others, I have also given my thoughts. Please refer Post #8 #9 #12 and #13. I think this would be helpful.

I am willing to give up all the desires.

That's a good sign.

So by that, I think you mean that, I have to meditate constantly on Om, but the duration of the time of meditation, would differ on my level, right?

Should I chant a mantra before chanting Om? What is the difference? Also, what mantra would you recommend?

Yes, as said earlier, let the first try be for 45 minutes. If you can sit for 45 minutes in first attempt, then you can go ahead with OM. It does not matter if you have never chanted OM. For the first time, chant OM mentally and just let go. also be aware of gap between 2 OM. If you are able to sit for 45 minutes then we can think of something ahead. I have been meditating since 13 years and on advaita since 9 years.

There is no mantra or invocation for beginning and ending but you can definitely pray. OM is everything.


For the first time, I could sit for 45 minutes, even though I had never meditated. I simply prayed to God

1. Oh God, your child has come at your refuge, please accept my surrender
2. Oh God, guide me through this meditation
3. Oh God, I do not know how to meditate, please teach me !
4. Oh God, give me what is best for me

So, I need to try and increase my meditation in time. But can you please specify the intervals of time, for me to shift from a specific duration to another. For example, first, I meditate (on a specific mantra) for 30 minutes. Then after for example 3 months, I will start meditating for an hour, etc..

Please try for 45 minutes for first time. Then we can talk after your first experience.

I have read the prerequistes of following Advaita, and the sacrifices needed to be made.

As Shri Yajvan ji has said, please can you let me know what shastras or bokks have you read like Gita, Vivek chudamani, tatva Bodh, etc.

Is there no path except first following bhakti? I'm not trying to jump to a higher level or anything, I just don't like worshiping. But if there is no other way, I will go for it.

Bhakti is the foundation. If you do not like worshiping, then you can chant mantra.

Again, do I sound "Om Namah Shivaya" in my mind? And keep repeating it for the whole duration of the meditation process?

Yes, but lets see after your first attempt.

What I gather from meditation is that, the main focus should be on the mantra you want to meditate upon. So I just keep repeating "Om....Om....Om...Om" etc.., and if another tought comes to my mind, I would just dismiss it, and try to focus again on my mantra. Am I making some sense?

So, I chant "Oooooooooooommmmmmm"?

Yes. It can be Ooooooouuuuummmm. The length of OOOO or uuu or mmm can be anything. No need to control it or try to chant equal parts of each O U M Or it can be Oooooooommmm i.e. O M. U is a transition and so may not be prominent. Everyone chants differently.

I know you may have a blank feeling since you do not have any experience. But just do it. After prayers if God wishes it will happen. do not worry too much.

I think I will start by the breathing excercise for 10-15 minutes for a month, then start meditating on mantras. And then, while I advance, with the Om mantra.
Thanks for all your advises.

As I have earlier said, first try for 45 minutes, later on we will see. But this is good thing to start.

So, I need to try and increase my meditation in time. But can you please specify the intervals of time, for me to shift from a specific duration to another. For example, first, I meditate (on a specific mantra) for 30 minutes. Then after for example 3 months, I will start meditating for an hour, etc..

It all depends upon your mindset, renunciation, force of surrender, faith and above all, will of God. So it all depends. Just begin and we will see.

Also note that you can shift from bhakti i.e. OM Namah Shivaya to Just OM. Infact, god will change it if advaita suits you. It happened to me. I was attracted to Lord Hanuman and like you, I did not knew anything what to chant. So I began chanting Jai Bajarangbali, Jai shri Ram. I didn't knew if this is a correct mantra. Then one day the image of lord hanuman so strongly got hold of me i.e. I could not deviate my attention from the image (in my mind) that I could not even sleep. But I remained fresh. At that time I was practicing Yog meditations too under Pranic Healing. When I was handed over to Advaita Guru (please note that I did not qute pranic healing). I got a strong feeling to follow what that guy was saying. After second meeting, I was told to meditate on OM. So there was a clash of 2 mantra. I prayed to God and surrendered, but kept chanting OM.

Later on when time passed, the mantra changed automatically To just Jai Shri Ram. I tried to correct it to the original one, but after 3-4 chants, it automatically changed to Jai Shri Ram.

Still Jai Shri Ram would pop up anytime in day while at work. So I was confused. After some time, maybe a month or even less, Jai Shri got replaced with OM. It was then that meditation began. It all happened. I simply surrender to God daily and prayed to show me a way, since even though I had left chanting Jai Shri Ram, It would occasionally pop up. That that was solved quickly and OM automatically replaced Jai Shri Ram.

The transition from Jai Bajarang Bali to Jai Shri Ram to OM would be a month or so. After that I was happy with OM and whenever I surrender and prayed before meditation and asked for guidance, immediately OM started. So I knew it was right for me.

Do not worry too much.

All you need is

1. Willingness to renounce.
2. Give only god importance
3. Strong faith and surrender with full force.
4. Determination
5. Don't quit

As I have said earlier, Just try to chant OM mentally for 45 minutes. Later on after your experience we will see.

I know I have told you to initially start chanting verbally, but for first time, just chant mentally for 45 minutes as a stretch.

Good Luck.

Aum
IS

[Yogic_lighter]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namast�

[SIZE=3]I am happy for your interest and enthusiasm... that said it seems you are trying to boil the ocean i.e. doing too much in a short period of time.

you mention,

Can you, in your own words articulate what you believe the pre-requisites are ?

Namaste,
I want to thank people for trying to help me.

The pre-requisites are
1. Discriminate the real/eternal (brahman) from the unreal/temporary (mithya)
I mostly reflect this on Lord Krishna's quote in Bhagavad Gita: "One who sees inaction in action, and action in inaction, is intelligent among men, and he is in the transcendental position, although engaged in all sorts of activities."

We should know that we are not the doer/thinker/knower/etc.. The koshas are with what we identify ourselves, but in reality, we are the unchanging, ever-blissful witness of all these.

2. The renunciation of material pleasures and objects.

Again I quote Bhagavad Gita: "Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but My devotees ultimately reach My supreme planet."

Everything in this material world is transient, temporary, the "fruit of action" i.e the reward of the action, is always temporary and limited in this material world, which lets us search for happiness even further. We crave for this happiness.
I quote Ramana Maharishi:
"Happiness is your nature. It is not wrong to desire it. What is wrong is seeking it outside when it is inside."
So there is no use for these limited wordly rewards, when we are already infinitely happy, and unlimited in nature. We should remove our ignorance instead of make it our entire life.

3.
a) Control of the mind. Don't let it control you. This is the goal of meditation (to my personal knowledge). We should observe how the mind operates, and we should distinguish it from the real "I", and be just its witness.
b) Control of the senses. We shouldn't react to the wordly objects. For example if someone teased you, or someone said some bad things, we shouldn't jump out and start beating each other. In other words, we shouldn't let anger get the best of us. We shouldn't care very much about these things.
c) Renunciation of activities that aren't duties. That means, we should only do things that are necessary. Like Indiaspirituality said (you earn to a living, not live for the earning). We eat, work, just to let the body survive, not enjoy itself.
d) Be neutral. We shouldn't get too worked up in the situations of this material universe. For example, I wouldn't really care what happens in the politics, and I just wouldn't have any opinion about it, or be interested it it, or take any side.
e) Faith. Faith in our shastras/scriptures, and acknowledge their authority. Faith in my guru (unfortunately I don't have one). And of course Faith in God.
f) concentration of the mind, keep focused on God, and not in the world around you.

4. Intense want for liberation. We should acknowledge that the world is full of miseries, and at best what we can experience is a moment of happiness, and we still search it and crave it, however, it doesn't matter in the end, because it's temporary. While unlimited Bliss, is our very nature, we just should remove our recent ignorant state. Moksha should be the only goal, nothing else, really matters.

Tell us how you plan to go about this? Can you inform us what the differences will be between a desire, and your intent to grow and mature ? Which will you keep , which will you discard ? What of the desire for well-being, health, for liberation? Are these tossed in the trash or acted upon?

Well, firstly, I plan to get rid of them one by one. For example, I like to eat hamburger per week. Now I'm eating it once in a month. Then I will just get rid of that habit. I used to go practice music lessons in my free time, now, I learn Sanskrit language bit by bit instead of that. Trying not to be distracted by songs, or movies, instead I read Advaita scriptures/books, or just listen to the Om symbol.
A desire is something you want to fulfill. You crave it, want it more than anything. While with growth and maturity comes wisdom, and practice to master the scriptures and meditation. Here I mean wisdom of the scriptures, not other things. So I intend to disregard my desires as I mature and grow.
Which desire will I keep? I intend to discard almost all my desires. But of course that will take time.
It depends on whose "well-being". If you mean the body, then I plan to just sustain it, for the purposes of meditation and other things. Frankly, I don't really care much about my body, how I look, etc..
Health is important to all. Bad health can impede by spiritual practices. I tend to keep my health in a good shape.
Liberation has become my most important goal. I can't say that I have no desire at all except for liberation, because that would be a lie. But I intend it to be my only purpose of life in the future. But I don't know if you want to call it a "desire". I would say that Liberation is my purpose of life.