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Thread: Jnana Yoga for beginners?

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    Re: Jnana Yoga for beginners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yogic_lighter View Post
    Namaste Indiaspirituality,
    Yes I tried. Although not for 45 min. I meditated for 30 min. Also, another problem is that the sound of Om in my mind is very low. Like sometimes I can hear the outside objects making sound/noise and not hear the Om in my mind. This really shifts my attention. Then I started to chant it verbally, and softly, it worked better.
    This is normal. Even I used to hear external noises. That too annoyed me. But it goes this way only. Only when mind is 100 % introvert and focussed on mantra, you do not hear external objects.

    It takes time to go deeper. So not be frustrated. When you become aware, just convince your mind that it is the mantra on which you will be aware and not thoughts orr external disturbances. When slowly and silently shift your focus and chant the mantra.

    Also there is another thing that I want to clear out. You always say that Om up-roots all desires and karmas. And all the Hindu scriptures give it much importance, they say it's the primordial vibration, it is Brahman, it is All, it is beyond the three modes of nature, etc.. Including Mandukya Upanishads, which give an entire explanation about every detail of it, but when I meditate I really find no meaning in it. Is this normal or what? Should I, like, always be aware of the meaning of Om when meditating? I just chant Om, and feel like it's like any other word I would chant. Is this wrong?
    Mind accepts things that are important to it. Rest it just ignores. So to create importance, glories of God, their divine deeds are sung. In this case it's the OM which is praised. The objective of it is that once you know that OM or any Mantra is all powerful and representation of God and capable to do anything, mind is not strayed on other things.

    There is no need ot meditate on meaning of a mantra. Simply chanting OM will work. Om or any other mantra will do it's work. Stuying a mantra and it's deper meaning is different thing, but wheile chanting, just chant mantra and be aware of mantra – gap (silence) – mantra. So the awareness is continous. As time passes the period of constant unbroken awareness increases and later on it becomes effortless.

    Also, if I have an intense desire for something, should I start chanting Om to renounce it? Because to me (as a beginner), I don't feel like it can do anything to me, or have any effect on me. Is this wrong? Or is this because I'm merely a beginner?
    No. Either fulfill the desire, or renounce it. If you cannot renounce it, better fulfill it. After fulfillment, mind will be at peace. Later on when one progresses, mind purifies and becomes stronger. The effect of mantra is more than thoughts. It is at this time this desire will be uprooted. In the beginning, you can up-root it. Just dedicate some time for spirituality – meditation and scriptural study.

    I don't feel like it can do anything to me, or have any effect on me. Is this wrong? Or is this because I'm merely a beginner?
    Initially, Thoughts are more powerful than Mantra, later both are equally powerful and still later, mantra is more powerful than thoghts. This is why wise men say, initially meditation is liek poison and later on it's like nector.

    But how to know which would suit me?
    Oh that is million dollar question. Generally one does not know which path suits one. IT is only by trial and error method that one can steady oneself.

    Okay, thanks for the advise. Also, should I re-real all the Gita every day? Or just the verses I find most important?
    I would repeat same pages 3 times. An explanation will make it clear:

    I used to fix some time say 30 minutes for study. I would not attend anyone or any phone call. If I can read say 10 pages in 30 minutes (it depends upon reading speed), then for next 2 days I would repeat same 10 pages. 4Th day I would read another 10-12 pages and repeat them on 5th and 6th day.

    If you listen to any discourse, then it's same track for 3 days. When Gita is over this way i.e. 3 times, again repeat in same way.

    This is regarding shastras. While reading any biography, I used to complete full book and then repeat it. I read Sri Ramakrishna's biography many times this way.

    If you manage to complete 3 times, on 4th time, if you have doubts ask someone, better Guru or post in forums. 3 times is because Gita is vast and first time, its just curiosity – what will be next !!!

    Only a serious person ready to walk on spiritual path will read it 3 times. After 3 times, you will understand general comcepts. Even if things are not clear, just keep reading it. Yes, keeping reading it till you complete entire Gita 3 times. This because we do not have same concentration everytime. Also our mindset changes with time. Also the doubts arising are mostly superficial. So repetation is necessary.

    While reading 4th time or if you hav patience 6th time (so it's 2nd time you complete a set of 3 repeat reading. A doubt arises, it is a genuine one and you ask according to your nature. The questions you ask also help in determining your nature and so your path.

    Only a Realized Jnani can look inside you deep in your mind and can know your true nature which you have by birth and then decide which path will suit you in a glance. Jnani has full spoort of God as Jnani is one with Brahman.

    I guess you got your answer to how you choose a path.

    Another thing is that should I re-read the Bhagavad Gita from Vaishnava point of view? Or just from Advaita perspective like Swami Chinmayananda's commentary? Since I don't think Advaita sees all the Bhagavad Gita as canon.
    Not needed. Commentary of Swami Chinmaya is good one. Since you have an interest in non-duality, there is no need to read from Vaishnav standpoint or from Karma standpoint.

    All commentaries and the commenting author saints are good and correct, but it's just not needed. In the marriage reception, there are many delicacies and dishes (atlest here in India, as India has many customs, north Indian, south indian, gujarati, punjabi, etc). So say there are 20 dishes, Indian, american, chinese, Japanese, etc. All dishes are good. IF you haved choice and a limited capacity to eat, what will you choose? Ofcourse the food and delicacies you like. Say you like chinese food. So you pick up chinese food and your tummy is full. Now even if other dhises are of good quality, will you eat all of them? no. Why, one was enough to satisfy your hunger. In the same way, when ther are too many options, you only take what you like. If you like sweet food, you will take sweet food. Other fellow will take spicy food. Now if someone asks why are you taking only sweet food, you simply say I like sweet food. IF the fellow asks – why do you like sweet food. What will you answer.? . I simply like it. Else else can you and need to say, Same is with reading Gita and other scriptures from different standpoint.

    Now if you like advaita, why not listen to Gita by a saint who is practising Advaita. Gita has 3 paths – Karma, Bhakti and Jnana. Since the Saint is practising Advaita, though he will make unbiased effort to explain all paths, verse-by-verse, still since he has practised and meditated advaita way and so has a particualr experience which influence his writings, he will connect karma and bhakti with Jnana in the end. This will not be the case of a vaishnav saint or a saint practising karma. They will focus more on bhakti or karma. So a bhakta will stick to Krishna with form and will argue that only is above all and bhakti is on essential thing and one needcs to surrender to Sri Krishan. But a Jnani will say, it's Krishna consciouness and not the one with form. Taht why Gita ends with Moksha Sanyas Yog and not Visvarupa darshan Yog (11th chapter). Saint following karma Yog will say Sri Krishna has said Karma is the best.

    Now if you read all this, your little brain will be muddled. So just read books by one saint and for you, since you like advaita, read an advaita saints books and commentries. Differences will remain and all are correct, but no need to read all types of availabel commentaries, there are more than 10 lakh different interpratations or commentaries on Gita !!!), except you want to do a PhD and then keep analyzing and analyzing ....... and analyzing till you die.

    *
    Since I don't think Advaita sees all the Bhagavad Gita as canon.
    *No one can understand full Gita. Either you follow Karma or Bhakti or Jnana. You cannot follow all 3 at a time and or understand 3 3 equally. (Though one may not practice one path purely, only one path is the main path.)

    I actually tried breathe awareness. And I found it really simple. I watched a video about a Zen teacher that says to count to 10 (exhales and inhales) and go back. But I get what the general idea is about meditation. It's trying to get the mind to concentrate on one thing instead of being in constant thinking and jumping between a thought and another.
    Yes breath awareness is comparatively simple than OM. See if you can practice it for 10 minutes daily before going to sleep and after waking up. After 10 mintues you can chant OM Namah Shivaya.

    You may or may not go for equal inhalation equal exhalation or 6-3-6-3- ot 3-6-3-6 or any other breathing pattern, but its not necessary. Just being aware is enough. All you need to do is just let-go

    I'm sorry about always repeating the same question, on where to start, but I think I made a choice.
    Please, never ever in future think that you are asking repeated questions. Doubts should be cleared and Sanatan Dharma allows (and does not mind) that disciple or questioner freely ask question. Only thing is it should be a genuine doubt and not just for sake of asking or for stirring a debate, which more or less ends up in an argument.

    Ask 100 times, only thing si it should be a genuine doubt. I see that you are trying to apply advaita and in this process have doubts. So no problem, as far as I am concerned.

    I will go firstly with Om Namah Shivaya and breathe awareness, and then after a month or so, of beginner meditation I will start chanting Om. I just want to ensure a good and safe spiritual journey.
    Ok. Please dont fix time duration. This is not a degree course and there is no time limit. Only thing important is to begin and it's the most difficult thing

    Good luck.

    Also, another question for future meditation: How to meditate upon the formless aspect of Shiva? And how does it differ from meditating upon his form-aspect?
    formless aspect of Shiva is nothing but Brahman / Atman

    Sri Ramakrishna meditated on Maa Kali. He said that initially a devotee sees her in glories form with good rich clothes and ornaments. Later one sees her a smiling simple mother dressed in simple clothes. Still later, one sees jyoti form i.e. Flame or fire like that of a candle (diya) and then the anand svarupa. This Ananda Svarupa is Sat-Chit-Anand Atman.

    Same is this Lord Shiva. When devotion increases and one feels God is near you. Then love for God increaes. When a devotee thinks of God as father, he does not think of his glories adn his powers. but just as a father.

    Please read this example by Sri Ramakrishna: Think of God as the most Beloved


    And how does it differ from meditating upon his form-aspect?
    In meditation with form you are aware of God's form ans associate it with his divine personality and sttributes (gunas), chant his glories and his name in extacy. In Jnana marg, it's just awareness and detachment. Peace and bliss is present.

    Many people complain that they feel an empty void and feel very dry and lonely, insucured. If one jumps into insecurity, one realized that he is most secure.

    Refer this thread, Advaita seems so empty and impersonal to me leaving a void in me...

    my reply #19, 20 (page 2), 24 (page 3)

    This difference in dual and non-dual worship is that you can vent anger, frustration adn ask God to fulfil demands, which you cannot with OM or Brahman.

    Bhakta progresses enjoying objects of 5 senses, while a Jnani renounces objects of 5 senses and thinks of them as poison. Even a bhakta in later stages, renounces everything, but it is at a very later stage, while a Jnani does not give importance to worldly objects from beginning.

    Since one is connected with body i.e. Mind is connected with body, path of bakti is easier than path of Jnana for beginners. When you try not to give importance to anything (because scriptues says so and you are taught to do the same) but on other hand you want to enjoy or fulfil some desires, then you find yourself in a tug-of-war. So mind will argue that if I quit everything, what will be left and the feeling of leaving everything will make you feel that suddenly the rasa i.e. Enjoyment, the charm of life has suddenly gone. Then follows fear of unsecurity. Bhakta often wrongly argue that Jnana marg is dry philosophy . But if one jumps into this insecurity, then one find himself to be most secure. After this reailzation, fear is banished and one learns that there is no enjoyment comparable to the ananda (happiness), which is born out of vairagya. It is this state in which one feels that everything is snatched away makes Jnana marg difficult for beginners. Tht is why I said in earlier post that Mind shold be strong.

    Oh and not to add that family members will never like their son to be a monk and so ther ewill be another Mahabharata (world war ) with loved ones. My mother felt taht her son is slipping from her hands and this super insecurity was medium of lots of emotional and mental troubles that I faced till the storm settled. Mind should be strong.

    I request you to do one thing:

    Take a printout of Lord Shiva, any photo you like on net and just look at it for some time. Mind should calm down. You do not need to do anything other than gazing the photo. Just keep loking it. Try not to blink, but do not try hard not to blink. Try it for 1 minutes. If you can manage for 5 minutes. It's nota problem if you blink your eyes some times. If mind calms down easily then Shiva suits you. If it does not try to Krishna or Rama.

    If by looking at Rama, your mind easily calms down then lookig at shiva or krishna, that Rama suits you.

    Why I am saying Lord Shiva is because of the nature you said and since Shiva is a symbol of Jnana. Some qualities like living simple life, being calm, not being social, accepting things fast, renunciation, etc are Gunas (qualities of Lord Shiva). If you have them too, then your qualities and nature matches with that of Lord Shiva. This is one way of further narrowing your path and choosing your personal deity. I think, you accept all Gods are equally powerful. It just matter which God suits you. While I do not know the way I said is given in shastras, I know this works very well.

    ... and you can ask for Brahma Jnana to Lord Shiva. Sri Ramakrishna said: One ask ask for Brahman Jnana to Maa Kali

    Aum
    Indiaspirituality
    Last edited by Amrut; 17 December 2012 at 11:52 AM. Reason: added last line, added lines after *
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  2. #32

    Re: Jnana Yoga for beginners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Indiaspirituality View Post
    This is normal. Even I used to hear external noises. That too annoyed me. But it goes this way only. Only when mind is 100 % introvert and focussed on mantra, you do not hear external objects.

    It takes time to go deeper. So not be frustrated. When you become aware, just convince your mind that it is the mantra on which you will be aware and not thoughts orr external disturbances. When slowly and silently shift your focus and chant the mantra.
    Namaste Indiaspirituality,

    Thanks. Also, how do you focus on the mantra? Do you focus on the "words", or on "the way I'm saying it in my mind"?

    Mind accepts things that are important to it. Rest it just ignores. So to create importance, glories of God, their divine deeds are sung. In this case it's the OM which is praised. The objective of it is that once you know that OM or any Mantra is all powerful and representation of God and capable to do anything, mind is not strayed on other things.

    There is no need ot meditate on meaning of a mantra. Simply chanting OM will work. Om or any other mantra will do it's work. Stuying a mantra and it's deper meaning is different thing, but wheile chanting, just chant mantra and be aware of mantra gap (silence) mantra. So the awareness is continous. As time passes the period of constant unbroken awareness increases and later on it becomes effortless.
    Thanks. Also, I need firstly to be convinced that Om is above all, right? When my mind knows that, it ignores everything less important.

    I would repeat same pages 3 times. An explanation will make it clear:

    I used to fix some time say 30 minutes for study. I would not attend anyone or any phone call. If I can read say 10 pages in 30 minutes (it depends upon reading speed), then for next 2 days I would repeat same 10 pages. 4Th day I would read another 10-12 pages and repeat them on 5th and 6th day.

    If you listen to any discourse, then it's same track for 3 days. When Gita is over this way i.e. 3 times, again repeat in same way.

    This is regarding shastras. While reading any biography, I used to complete full book and then repeat it. I read Sri Ramakrishna's biography many times this way.

    If you manage to complete 3 times, on 4th time, if you have doubts ask someone, better Guru or post in forums. 3 times is because Gita is vast and first time, its just curiosity what will be next !!!

    Only a serious person ready to walk on spiritual path will read it 3 times. After 3 times, you will understand general comcepts. Even if things are not clear, just keep reading it. Yes, keeping reading it till you complete entire Gita 3 times. This because we do not have same concentration everytime. Also our mindset changes with time. Also the doubts arising are mostly superficial. So repetation is necessary.

    While reading 4th time or if you hav patience 6th time (so it's 2nd time you complete a set of 3 repeat reading. A doubt arises, it is a genuine one and you ask according to your nature. The questions you ask also help in determining your nature and so your path.

    Only a Realized Jnani can look inside you deep in your mind and can know your true nature which you have by birth and then decide which path will suit you in a glance. Jnani has full spoort of God as Jnani is one with Brahman.

    I guess you got your answer to how you choose a path.
    Okay, thanks. Also, does it matter if I read it in English? Since I need about 5 seconds to read a word in Hindi.

    Not needed. Commentary of Swami Chinmaya is good one. Since you have an interest in non-duality, there is no need to read from Vaishnav standpoint or from Karma standpoint.

    All commentaries and the commenting author saints are good and correct, but it's just not needed. In the marriage reception, there are many delicacies and dishes (atlest here in India, as India has many customs, north Indian, south indian, gujarati, punjabi, etc). So say there are 20 dishes, Indian, american, chinese, Japanese, etc. All dishes are good. IF you haved choice and a limited capacity to eat, what will you choose? Ofcourse the food and delicacies you like. Say you like chinese food. So you pick up chinese food and your tummy is full. Now even if other dhises are of good quality, will you eat all of them? no. Why, one was enough to satisfy your hunger. In the same way, when ther are too many options, you only take what you like. If you like sweet food, you will take sweet food. Other fellow will take spicy food. Now if someone asks why are you taking only sweet food, you simply say I like sweet food. IF the fellow asks why do you like sweet food. What will you answer.? . I simply like it. Else else can you and need to say, Same is with reading Gita and other scriptures from different standpoint.

    Now if you like advaita, why not listen to Gita by a saint who is practising Advaita. Gita has 3 paths Karma, Bhakti and Jnana. Since the Saint is practising Advaita, though he will make unbiased effort to explain all paths, verse-by-verse, still since he has practised and meditated advaita way and so has a particualr experience which influence his writings, he will connect karma and bhakti with Jnana in the end. This will not be the case of a vaishnav saint or a saint practising karma. They will focus more on bhakti or karma. So a bhakta will stick to Krishna with form and will argue that only is above all and bhakti is on essential thing and one needcs to surrender to Sri Krishan. But a Jnani will say, it's Krishna consciouness and not the one with form. Taht why Gita ends with Moksha Sanyas Yog and not Visvarupa darshan Yog (11th chapter). Saint following karma Yog will say Sri Krishna has said Karma is the best.

    Now if you read all this, your little brain will be muddled. So just read books by one saint and for you, since you like advaita, read an advaita saints books and commentries. Differences will remain and all are correct, but no need to read all types of availabel commentaries, there are more than 10 lakh different interpratations or commentaries on Gita !!!), except you want to do a PhD and then keep analyzing and analyzing ....... and analyzing till you die.
    Thanks for the advise. I'll go with Swami Chinmayananda's commentary.
    Please, never ever in future think that you are asking repeated questions. Doubts should be cleared and Sanatan Dharma allows (and does not mind) that disciple or questioner freely ask question. Only thing is it should be a genuine doubt and not just for sake of asking or for stirring a debate, which more or less ends up in an argument.

    Ask 100 times, only thing si it should be a genuine doubt. I see that you are trying to apply advaita and in this process have doubts. So no problem, as far as I am concerned.
    Thanks again.
    formless aspect of Shiva is nothing but Brahman / Atman

    Sri Ramakrishna meditated on Maa Kali. He said that initially a devotee sees her in glories form with good rich clothes and ornaments. Later one sees her a smiling simple mother dressed in simple clothes. Still later, one sees jyoti form i.e. Flame or fire like that of a candle (diya) and then the anand svarupa. This Ananda Svarupa is Sat-Chit-Anand Atman.

    Same is this Lord Shiva. When devotion increases and one feels God is near you. Then love for God increaes. When a devotee thinks of God as father, he does not think of his glories adn his powers. but just as a father.

    Please read this example by Sri Ramakrishna: Think of God as the most Beloved
    Thanks for the link, I read it all.
    I just want to ask about Ananda Svarupa. I know that ananda=bliss. Svarupa=transcendent/spiritual-nature/essence. But how do you exactly meditate on it?
    In meditation with form you are aware of God's form ans associate it with his divine personality and sttributes (gunas), chant his glories and his name in extacy. In Jnana marg, it's just awareness and detachment. Peace and bliss is present.

    Many people complain that they feel an empty void and feel very dry and lonely, insucured. If one jumps into insecurity, one realized that he is most secure.

    Refer this thread, Advaita seems so empty and impersonal to me leaving a void in me...

    my reply #19, 20 (page 2), 24 (page 3)
    "Thanks for that. I want to ask about the "I-I" in:
    He will not admit that he who sees, the objects seen, and the act of seeing are all manifestations of the same Consciousness - the 'I-I'."
    I often see this in Advaita, but do not understand it.
    I request you to do one thing:

    Take a printout of Lord Shiva, any photo you like on net and just look at it for some time. Mind should calm down. You do not need to do anything other than gazing the photo. Just keep loking it. Try not to blink, but do not try hard not to blink. Try it for 1 minutes. If you can manage for 5 minutes. It's nota problem if you blink your eyes some times. If mind calms down easily then Shiva suits you. If it does not try to Krishna or Rama.

    If by looking at Rama, your mind easily calms down then lookig at shiva or krishna, that Rama suits you.

    Why I am saying Lord Shiva is because of the nature you said and since Shiva is a symbol of Jnana. Some qualities like living simple life, being calm, not being social, accepting things fast, renunciation, etc are Gunas (qualities of Lord Shiva). If you have them too, then your qualities and nature matches with that of Lord Shiva. This is one way of further narrowing your path and choosing your personal deity. I think, you accept all Gods are equally powerful. It just matter which God suits you. While I do not know the way I said is given in shastras, I know this works very well.

    ... and you can ask for Brahma Jnana to Lord Shiva. Sri Ramakrishna said: One ask ask for Brahman Jnana to Maa Kali
    Thanks, I will try to do that.

  3. #33
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    Re: Jnana Yoga for beginners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yogic_lighter View Post
    Namaste Indiaspirituality,

    Thanks. Also, how do you focus on the mantra? Do you focus on the "words", or on "the way I'm saying it in my mind"?
    since you have decided to chant Om Namah Shivaya, I will answer keeping it in mind.

    If you are talking about accent, pronunciation, length of mantra, or focusing on any part of mantra like focusing on OM more, etc then it is not much important. Simply chant Om Namah Shivaya in mind.

    Chanting in mind is something difficult to explain. Mind is different from brain. You can operate skull and pinpoint brain, but mind is invisible.

    It is said in Tatva Bodh and by Sri Ramana Maharshi that mind is nothing but continuous flow of thoughts. So chant mentally at a place were there thoughts. If you find it difficult, then do some math calculations

    e.g.

    2 + 2 = 4 + 2 = 6 / 2 = 3 and keep doing it for 10-15 calculations. The place where you calculate is the mind and the place of thoughts.

    If you still cannot find a way, never mind, simply chant Om Namah Shivaya Mentally. It will work.

    So you do not focus on the way you chant but on whole mantra itself.

    when a thought arises, simply de-focus and your senses will pull back. The awareness exercise which I told you to be aware of breath helps here. though you do not need to be aware of breath, simply be aware of thoughts or any vision or any scene that is playing in your mind. Once you are able to do that, you can shift your focus to mantra. This is how I chant mantra.

    In your case, if it is difficult to concentrate on mantra, then best is to visualize an image of Lord Shiva in mind and simultaneously chant the mantra. Since you are doing 2 things at a time, so there is less chance for mind to slip away. If still you cannot concentrate on mantra, then you will have to take help of Japa Mala.

    You count beads as you chant mantra and complete it for 108 times i.e. chant Om Namah Shivaya 108 times to complete 108 times.

    In Japa with Mala, you are doing 3 things, counting beads, chanting mantra and visualizing Shiva. It is for trapping mind.

    Still if you cannot meditate, then better do puja and do social service.

    Thanks. Also, I need firstly to be convinced that Om is above all, right? When my mind knows that, it ignores everything less important.
    This is the reason why saints have sung glories of God. Read Shiva Purana, Shiva Chalisa and some songs like Shiva Tandava Stotra, Shiva Mahimna Stotra. This will increase the importance in your mind about Lord Shiva, as Shiva is considered as the supreme God and capable of doing anything. It will make you realize that someone is above me and that all powerful God is guiding me and my life.

    Reading Shiva Purana listening to devotional songs dedicated to Shiva help you to stay connected with him for longer time.

    Okay, thanks. Also, does it matter if I read it in English? Since I need about 5 seconds to read a word in Hindi.
    unless your mother tongue is Hindi, you can read in English. Mother tongue is the best language that suits you, since God gave you birth in that language speaking family. It is the first language of communication. So when something from heart comes, you express in mother tongue. Most saints have written and sung devotional songs in their mother tongue. Mother tongue touches heart easily. So if you are reading anything in your mother tongue, and you find any verse or prayer very touching or inspirational, you can directly pick it up and add it to your prayer. No need to convert it to mother tongue and then pray.

    But if literature is not available in your mother tongue, then you can read in your second language of communication and or english.


    I just want to ask about Ananda Svarupa. I know that ananda=bliss. Svarupa=transcendent/spiritual-nature/essence. But how do you exactly meditate on it?
    Sat-chit-ananda is the swarupa. It is the destination. In advaita you are told that you are not the body or mind or intellect. So the question arises what 'who am I'. So to answer, saints have made valiant effort to describe the indescribable. Our mind needs to visualize something. Hence this explanation. it is not to be meditated. You will land up in this state.

    Happiness is the only expression that you experience in day-2-day life, even though the happiness is not the pure one but connected with objects, person or issue, still it is the one regularly expressed and experienced. We all, whether we believe in God or not, strive to achieve this happiness. We earn so that we can fulfill our desires and be happy. We have bank balance, so that you are protested in tough times. We have bank balance so that you do not have trouble and sorrow in lack og money. Technically there is no sukh (ananda). Dukh-nivritti (removal of sorrow) is called as sukh. We all try not to be sad by keeping bank balance and maintaining relations with fellow human beings, just incase you may need their support in difficult times. If we have option, then we will always do things we like. So again there is sukh. So a person is always searching for this sukh and trying to keep it as much as he.she can and stay in this happy hours as much as he/she can.

    Atamn is the actual Tatva which one is seeking. Advaita searches this Atma tatva and the seekers finally merges in it. Seeker realizes 'I ma Atman' This is an Advaitin journey, which begins with the question 'Who am I' and ends when the search is completed by realizing that 'I am Brahman'

    "Thanks for that. I want to ask about the "I-I" in:
    He will not admit that he who sees, the objects seen, and the act of seeing are all manifestations of the same Consciousness - the 'I-I'."
    I often see this in Advaita, but do not understand it.
    This is an Advaita Statement. Generally jnani does not publicly market that he is a jnani. Technically if you say I am observer, then you (observer) and object of observation are different. So you are in duality, hence not established in Brahman. But upon questioned about the advaita philosophy by a worthy disciple A guru will say this statement that I am observer.

    After realizing the true nature, Jnani will see everything is Brahman

    Brahma Satya, Jagat Mithya, Jagat Satya

    this third line is not often added to the popular verse 'Brahma Satya, Jagat Mithya'

    After realizing that he is brahman, a Jnani sees or experiences that this world is also a manifestation of Brahman and not a different thing. Everywhere there is brahman and nothing else.

    So you experience both Shiva and Shakti to be actually free.

    Never mind if you do not understand it. Do not worry this will be unfolded at proper time. Better is to start walking.

    Aum

    Indiaspirituality.
    Last edited by Amrut; 19 December 2012 at 02:23 AM.
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  4. #34

    Re: Jnana Yoga for beginners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Indiaspirituality View Post
    since you have decided to chant Om Namah Shivaya, I will answer keeping it in mind.

    If you are talking about accent, pronunciation, length of mantra, or focusing on any part of mantra like focusing on OM more, etc then it is not much important. Simply chant Om Namah Shivaya in mind.

    Chanting in mind is something difficult to explain. Mind is different from brain. You can operate skull and pinpoint brain, but mind is invisible.

    It is said in Tatva Bodh and by Sri Ramana Maharshi that mind is nothing but continuous flow of thoughts. So chant mentally at a place were there thoughts. If you find it difficult, then do some math calculations

    e.g.

    2 + 2 = 4 + 2 = 6 / 2 = 3 and keep doing it for 10-15 calculations. The place where you calculate is the mind and the place of thoughts.

    If you still cannot find a way, never mind, simply chant Om Namah Shivaya Mentally. It will work.

    So you do not focus on the way you chant but on whole mantra itself.

    when a thought arises, simply de-focus and your senses will pull back. The awareness exercise which I told you to be aware of breath helps here. though you do not need to be aware of breath, simply be aware of thoughts or any vision or any scene that is playing in your mind. Once you are able to do that, you can shift your focus to mantra. This is how I chant mantra.

    In your case, if it is difficult to concentrate on mantra, then best is to visualize an image of Lord Shiva in mind and simultaneously chant the mantra. Since you are doing 2 things at a time, so there is less chance for mind to slip away. If still you cannot concentrate on mantra, then you will have to take help of Japa Mala.

    You count beads as you chant mantra and complete it for 108 times i.e. chant Om Namah Shivaya 108 times to complete 108 times.

    In Japa with Mala, you are doing 3 things, counting beads, chanting mantra and visualizing Shiva. It is for trapping mind.

    Still if you cannot meditate, then better do puja and do social service.
    Thanks, but visualizing and chanting are working fine for me. I chant mantra and visualize the image of Shiva
    Never mind if you do not understand it. Do not worry this will be unfolded at proper time. Better is to start walking.
    I do understand it perfectly. Brahma satyam jagat mithya jivo brahmaiva na parah.
    Brahman is real the world unreal, jivo is non-different from brahman.
    To an ignorant jiva, the world is real and what he sees is the illusory power of Maya, while a self-realized jnani, sees brahman as the world, that's why jagat satyam is only for the jnanis, while the ignorant are seeing the illusory world, that's why jagat mithya.
    Shakti and Shiva are one. Like Krishna and Radha. The Lord and his energy are the same, like the sunlight and the sun.

  5. #35
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    Re: Jnana Yoga for beginners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yogic_lighter View Post
    Thanks, but visualizing and chanting are working fine for me. I chant mantra and visualize the image of Shiva
    good to know.

    I do understand it perfectly. Brahma satyam jagat mithya jivo brahmaiva na parah.
    Brahman is real the world unreal, jivo is non-different from brahman.
    To an ignorant jiva, the world is real and what he sees is the illusory power of Maya, while a self-realized jnani, sees brahman as the world, that's why jagat satyam is only for the jnanis, while the ignorant are seeing the illusory world, that's why jagat mithya.
    Shakti and Shiva are one. Like Krishna and Radha. The Lord and his energy are the same, like the sunlight and the sun.

    As per my limited knowledge and understanding, you have understood correctly.

    Aum
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

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