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Thread: Jnana Yoga for beginners?

  1. #11

    Re: Jnana Yoga for beginners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Indiaspirituality View Post
    As Shri Yajvan ji has said, please can you let me know what shastras or bokks have you read like Gita, Vivek chudamani, tatva Bodh, etc.
    Namaste Indiaspirituality,

    Thanks that really helped, and I know what to do now.

    I have read the Gita, some introductory books of Advaita, read Advaita: a philosophical reconstruction, Dennis Waite's book Advaita back to the truth, Mandukya Upanishads. And plan to read the rest of the big Eight Upanishads, and Brahmasutras of Shri Adi Shakara and Ashtavakra Gita.
    Thanks again, for your help.

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    Re: Jnana Yoga for beginners?

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namast
    yogic_lighter writes.

    A desire is something you want to fulfill. You crave it, want it more than anything. While with growth and maturity comes wisdom, and practice to master the scriptures and meditation. Here I mean wisdom of the scriptures, not other things. So I intend to disregard my desires as I mature and grow.
    This desire for liberation is a desire , no ? It is mumukṣutva - (the) desire of liberation or of final emancipation. So there must be something more to this notion of desire then meets the eye.


    Look to the Bhāgavad gītā , chapter 5, the 23rd śloka in this light:

    He who is able even here before liberation from the body, to resist
    the excitement born of desire and anger is united with the divine.
    He is a happy man.

    This śloka does not suggest we crush desires , but we manage the excitement that is born of desire and/or anger. This is the key. The most natural way to accomplish this is when one is anchored in the Self (svādhisthāna). This comes with time, practice and His grace. Before this, there is effort involved. Effort creates stress and strain on occasion. So, one needs to learn 'skill in action' - which is the subject matter of chapter 2, 3 and 4 of the bhāgavad gītā. In fact one needn't accomplish/comprehend more then chapters 1 to 6 of the bhāgavad gītā and one will be properly achored in this life.

    iti śiva




    1. svādhisthāna = svā +dhi + sthāna or one's own + delight + being fixed or stationed
    • svādhisthāna therefore means being stationed and delighted in one's own Self.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  3. #13
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    Re: Jnana Yoga for beginners?

    Namaste Yogic_lighter

    I appreciate your willingness to learn and practice advaita.

    I would humbly say that though you are correct about advaita, give more importance to bhakti. these are not my saying but saying of Sri Ramakrishna and Sri Anandmayi Maa (also spelled Anandmoyi Maa). Please understand that even a vedantin is a bhakta. Approach is different - Surrender (your Ego) to Pure form of Brahman or simply God.

    When bhakti increases other desires naturally drop off, mostly unnoticed. Even your nature changes. So best is to be aware of God or simply stay surrendered. Though this looks very simple statement, it is difficult to understand and apply it. Advaita does accept the formless Brahman and you can surrender to this brahman or simply say God.

    Oh God I surrender myself to you. Take away my ignorance and ego and merge me within you.Though this statement may look like a dual statement (dvaita), the end result is advaita state (non-dual experience).

    Either you establish in SELF (Brahman) knowingly, which happens in Neti Neti or it happens suddenly and spontaneously without prior knowledge, as it happens while chanting OM. the end result is the same. You are abiding in SELF.

    there is no need to nullify each and every desire. Control is a good thing, but sometimes it back fires. The best is to cling to God and rest is controlled by God. You need to worry too much. Just be clinged to God. Prayers are very important. the moment you realise something wrong has happened, at that very moment, surrender that emotion to God and pray to God - Oh God, take away my anger or take away my hatred or take away my frustration. surrender and prayer at that very moment is very effective and potent then daily regular prayer. You pray wimmediately when you realise. At that moment there force of surrender is very strong.

    there is also no need to read 10 upanishads, unless you want to a PhD or give lectures or become an acharya and keep taking part in discussions.

    Gita, Tatva Bodh and Vivekchudamani are enough.

    No need of Upanidhas and definitely no need of Brahma sutras and Ashtavakra Gita.

    Ashtavakra Gita is like an atom bomb. If an advanced meditator reads it and able to digest it, then the progress is very fast and unhindered, while if an un-riped sadhaka (seeker) may make a complete mess and may even drop doing puja and bhakti and even meditation.

    Have Mokha as the only desire. When one up-roots all desires with the help of moksha and ofcourse meditation, then only one desire remains i.e. 'I want Moksha' This desires, though initially extremely important, now agitates the mind. It is then Ashtavakra Gita can be applied. Asktavakra Gita is said from the grace of Karma, from the standpoint of supreme reality. It is the enjoyment of 2 Jnanis (Self Realized Souls). Except one or two places there is no updesha (spiritual instruction). Arjun in Gita realises his true nature in last chapter i.e. Chapter 18 - Moksha Sanyas Yog, while King Janak realises his true nature at the end of 1st chapter. Second chapter is his expression and astonishment of this state.

    Brahma Sutra is only for advanced seekers and out of 7 sections only 4 or maybe 3 sections are taught 9if I remember correctly). Rest are expected to be self studied. One Swami (Monk / Sanyasin) told me that after intense meditation and study of scriptues and doing service to my Guru for 4 years, my Guru just told me first half verse of Brahma Sutra !!! Brahma Sutra is not for mass study and in my opinion should not be spread in public. Not everybody can digest it.

    Upnishads are for highly intelligent ones. But the problem is the out little brain is easily muddled (gets dirty - spoild) with too much study. Read less and meditate more says Paramhansa Hariharananda.

    I would warn you not to go for Brahma Sutra and Ashtavakra Gita.

    I would also caution to think before going for meditating on OM.

    I would humbly request you to please read Sri Ramakrishna Kathamrita and Sri Ramakrishna Jivan Charitra (or Sri Sri Ramakrishna Lila Prasanga). This will give you the much needed push in bhakti and so in spirituality.

    There are 2 versions

    1. Slightly edited by Swami Nikhalananda - Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna
    2. Word-2-word translation by Shri Dharm Pal Gupta

    I personally prefer word-2-word translation.

    The advise is given in simple day-2-day language.

    Life of Sri Ramakrishna - Jivan Charitra:

    I do not know if it is easily available in English or in your native language. But if you find it then please read it before Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna, as one should know the life of saint before one accepts his / her updesha

    Please read shastras repeatedly. I told told to read Sri Ramakrishna Jivan Charitra for 8 years. After 8 years I was told to Stop reading it.

    I would again say that Bhagavad Gita, Tatva Bodha and Vivekchudamani repeatedly.

    Swami Vivekananda's books and Swami Chinmaya's books are well written and offer great clarity. Swami Chinmaya's commentary on Bhagavad Gita is also good one.

    Good luck for Spiritual Journey.

    Aum

    IS

    P.S. If you want my personal thoughts, then Please visit Indiaspirituality

    Scroll down and check following posts under title 'Featured'

    What is Advaita Vedanta? Can it be applied in today’s Practical Life?
    Different Paths of Self Realisation
    Spiritual Essence - Spirituality in a nut shell
    Sadhana Chatushtaya VaraNana - 4 Qualities
    Bhagavad Gita in brief
    Bhagavad Gita - Common myths busted
    Invocation - From Advaita Vedanta Standpoint

    Please note these are my personal opinion and I am not an authority on spirituality. Shri Yajvan ji is very well-versed and experienced then me.

    Also have a look at Gita Chanting in sweet single male voice By Swami Brahmananda of Chinmaya Mission

    Gita MP3

    gita - Listen online

    Thanks for (fully ) reading my long posts
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  4. #14

    Re: Jnana Yoga for beginners?

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namast
    yogic_lighter writes.


    This desire for liberation is a desire , no ? It is mumukṣutva - (the) desire of liberation or of final emancipation. So there must be something more to this notion of desire then meets the eye.


    Look to the Bhāgavad gītā , chapter 5, the 23rd śloka in this light:

    He who is able even here before liberation from the body, to resist
    the excitement born of desire and anger is united with the divine.
    He is a happy man.

    This śloka does not suggest we crush desires , but we manage the excitement that is born of desire and/or anger. This is the key. The most natural way to accomplish this is when one is anchored in the Self (svādhisthāna). This comes with time, practice and His grace. Before this, there is effort involved. Effort creates stress and strain on occasion. So, one needs to learn 'skill in action' - which is the subject matter of chapter 2, 3 and 4 of the bhāgavad gītā. In fact one needn't accomplish/comprehend more then chapters 1 to 6 of the bhāgavad gītā and one will be properly achored in this life.

    iti śiva




    1. svādhisthāna = svā +dhi + sthāna or one's own + delight + being fixed or stationed
    • svādhisthāna therefore means being stationed and delighted in one's own Self.
    Namaste Yajvan-ji,

    I appreciate your comments, and your caring. I will certainly keep what you said in mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Indiaspirituality View Post
    Namaste Yogic_lighter

    I appreciate your willingness to learn and practice advaita.

    I would humbly say that though you are correct about advaita, give more importance to bhakti. these are not my saying but saying of Sri Ramakrishna and Sri Anandmayi Maa (also spelled Anandmoyi Maa). Please understand that even a vedantin is a bhakta. Approach is different - Surrender (your Ego) to Pure form of Brahman or simply God.

    When bhakti increases other desires naturally drop off, mostly unnoticed. Even your nature changes. So best is to be aware of God or simply stay surrendered. Though this looks very simple statement, it is difficult to understand and apply it. Advaita does accept the formless Brahman and you can surrender to this brahman or simply say God.

    Oh God I surrender myself to you. Take away my ignorance and ego and merge me within you.Though this statement may look like a dual statement (dvaita), the end result is advaita state (non-dual experience).

    Either you establish in SELF (Brahman) knowingly, which happens in Neti Neti or it happens suddenly and spontaneously without prior knowledge, as it happens while chanting OM. the end result is the same. You are abiding in SELF.
    there is no need to nullify each and every desire. Control is a good thing, but sometimes it back fires. The best is to cling to God and rest is controlled by God. You need to worry too much. Just be clinged to God. Prayers are very important. the moment you realise something wrong has happened, at that very moment, surrender that emotion to God and pray to God - Oh God, take away my anger or take away my hatred or take away my frustration. surrender and prayer at that very moment is very effective and potent then daily regular prayer. You pray wimmediately when you realise. At that moment there force of surrender is very strong.
    Namaste Indiaspirituality,

    So I can do both? I can go for Bhakti and Advaita simultaneously? So I pray and surrender to God, and meditate on different mantras.
    Thinking about what you said, it does actually make sense. Brahman is non-dual, and dual simultaneously. The important thing is that he's one, and both, the dual, and the non-dual are the same God/Brahman, at the end.
    The important thing, is that I should acknowledge that God is both non-dual and dual, and pray to him knowing that he's both dual and non dual, right? Or should I just choose to worship him as a separate entity from me (only dual)?

    there is also no need to read 10 upanishads, unless you want to a PhD or give lectures or become an acharya and keep taking part in discussions.

    Gita, Tatva Bodh and Vivekchudamani are enough.

    No need of Upanidhas and definitely no need of Brahma sutras and Ashtavakra Gita.

    Ashtavakra Gita is like an atom bomb. If an advanced meditator reads it and able to digest it, then the progress is very fast and unhindered, while if an un-riped sadhaka (seeker) may make a complete mess and may even drop doing puja and bhakti and even meditation.
    Yes, thanks for pointing this out for me. I always thought, that I should study first all the scriptures to begin spiritual practice, but I guess that is wrong.

    I would warn you not to go for Brahma Sutra and Ashtavakra Gita.
    Thank for the warning. I know you want what is best for me, and I will abide by your recommendation.
    Hopefully, in the future, I can try and read them.

    I would humbly request you to please read Sri Ramakrishna Kathamrita and Sri Ramakrishna Jivan Charitra (or Sri Sri Ramakrishna Lila Prasanga). This will give you the much needed push in bhakti and so in spirituality.

    There are 2 versions

    1. Slightly edited by Swami Nikhalananda - Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna
    2. Word-2-word translation by Shri Dharm Pal Gupta

    I personally prefer word-2-word translation.

    The advise is given in simple day-2-day language.

    Life of Sri Ramakrishna - Jivan Charitra:

    I do not know if it is easily available in English or in your native language. But if you find it then please read it before Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna, as one should know the life of saint before one accepts his / her updesha

    Please read shastras repeatedly. I told told to read Sri Ramakrishna Jivan Charitra for 8 years. After 8 years I was told to Stop reading it.

    I would again say that Bhagavad Gita, Tatva Bodha and Vivekchudamani repeatedly.

    Swami Vivekananda's books and Swami Chinmaya's books are well written and offer great clarity. Swami Chinmaya's commentary on Bhagavad Gita is also good one.

    Good luck for Spiritual Journey.
    I will gladly read what you posted, and try to find Sri Ramakrishna's Jivan Charitra. Thank again for your advises.

    P.S. If you want my personal thoughts, then Please visit Indiaspirituality

    Scroll down and check following posts under title 'Featured'

    What is Advaita Vedanta? Can it be applied in todays Practical Life?
    Different Paths of Self Realisation
    Spiritual Essence - Spirituality in a nut shell
    Sadhana Chatushtaya VaraNana - 4 Qualities
    Bhagavad Gita in brief
    Bhagavad Gita - Common myths busted
    Invocation - From Advaita Vedanta Standpoint

    Please note these are my personal opinion and I am not an authority on spirituality. Shri Yajvan ji is very well-versed and experienced then me.

    Also have a look at Gita Chanting in sweet single male voice By Swami Brahmananda of Chinmaya Mission

    Gita MP3

    gita - Listen online

    Thanks for (fully ) reading my long posts
    It would be my pleasure to read your personal thoughts. And I shall try and leave a comment
    You shouldn't thank me for reading your posts, I should be the one thanking you. You've done me a great service, thanks again Indiaspirituality for all your help.

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    Re: Jnana Yoga for beginners?

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namast

    Quote Originally Posted by Yogic_lighter View Post
    The neti-neti is for advanced meditation.
    One needs to better appreciate the meaning of this notion...let me add the following from a past post for one's kind consideration:


    The tapas of renunciation is of great interest to many. This notion of renunciation some call out 'neti-neti' . This is from na-iti . This na = not and iti ; in the brāhmaṇas 'iti' is often equivalent to 'as you know'. Hence na-iti is 'not as you know, not as you perceive'. This is saying you are not what you see. What is being renounced is the false knowledge of what here and now really is.

    Now this renunciation ~typically~ is accompanied/groomed with the idea of detachment over time. The common word used for detachment is vairāgya and we find this in patajalis yogadarśana ( yoga sūtra's) :

    dṛṣṭānuśravikaviṣayavitṛṣṇasya vaśīkārasaṃjā vairāgyam || 15

    Let's see how this word aligns with renunciation. Vairāgyam is defined as aversion , indifference to worldly objects and to life i.e. not this , not this ( neti neti ). It is not defined as 'detachment' , yet this idea does come up in the progression to the full blossoming of vairāgya.
    The word closest to detachment is vyatireka and is defined as distinction, seperation, difference and we find it in this progression ( to vairāgya) I have suggested.
    If we look at this vairāgya by some of its roots , it is that heroic movement away from those things that bind, abondoning those things of the world, that are inimical (adverse in tendency or effect).

    The wise say there is a progression to this state . Here we have the 4 steps (pada):
    • yatamāna - yata = restrained + māna = pride, arrogance. Hence we can see the constraint
      of the small self, the self-centeredness one may have. Now there are some that suggests this is the restraint of sensuous enjoyments.
    • vyatireka - seperation, distinction, difference. This occurs when yatamāna begins to find firm footing in one's daily life. Some may call this detachment, but note it is not the final destination.
    • ekaendriya - this is defined as having but one organ of sense. This has several meanings.
      It suggests that all the organs of sense are subdued/managed accordingly. Yet what is that one ~organ~ that remains intact? It is said the mind remains.
    • vaśīkāra - is the making of power and control - one now has contol power over the senses. We see this in the 15th sūtra patajali-ji offers: dṛṣṭānuśravikaviṣayavitṛṣṇasya vaśīkārasaṃjā vairāgyam ||
    It is these four steps that lead to the 5th vairāgya , that heroic movement to the aversion , indifference to worldly objects and to life. You see this just does not happen, but is the march ( pada) to this condition. It is from this foundation that one is able to successfully renounce.

    iti śiva

    words
    • tapas - is from 'tapa' , heating up; tapas is observances, an approach ; tapasya
    • brāhmaṇas - we find this in the bṛhadaraṇyaka upaniṣad ( some write bṛhadaraṇyakopaniṣad ), mūrta-amūrta brāhmaṇa ( form and formless).
    • roots found in vairāgyam : vaira + ag + ya
      • vaira takes on two ideas :
        • hostile, iminical, revengeful
        • heroism, prowess
      • ag - to move tortuiously
      • ya also takes on few meanings:
        • union ( as to bring the terms above together)
        • restraining, abondoning
        • rooted in means a goer or mover

    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  6. #16
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    Re: Jnana Yoga for beginners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yogic_lighter View Post

    Namaste Indiaspirituality,

    So I can do both? I can go for Bhakti and Advaita simultaneously? So I pray and surrender to God, and meditate on different mantras.
    Thinking about what you said, it does actually make sense. Brahman is non-dual, and dual simultaneously. The important thing is that he's one, and both, the dual, and the non-dual are the same God/Brahman, at the end.

    The important thing, is that I should acknowledge that God is both non-dual and dual, and pray to him knowing that he's both dual and non dual, right? Or should I just choose to worship him as a separate entity from me (only dual)?
    Namaste Yogic_lighter

    There seems to be some confusion. By referring to God means the same Brahman which is formless attribute and not a personal deity like Rama, Krishna. Shiva is also one of the trinity known by other names like Mahesh and Shankar. There is another meaning of Shiva, meaning 'Kalyan kari' which means auspicious, doing good, beneficial or sometimes even referred to as ever blissful. Many say that Shiva and Shankar are different. Shiva is formless from which everything including trinity emerged.

    The reason I suggested to chant Om Namah Shivaya and worship linga swarupa is that initially you can feel it is a dual worship, but later on, you can shift to non-dual.

    Technically, there is no need to chant more than one mantra. When one can meditate for 3 hours, mantra continues in subconscious mind the whole day even when you are fully concentrating in your work like studying or developing a software (coding). It continues in sub-conscious mind. when you drop the work or just finish the work and relax, spontaneously the mantra pops up, just like a song pops up without making conscious effort to recall it. Even the mantra goes on whole night and the proof or barometer is that the first thought upon waking should be the mantra.

    This is the reason why one should not chant more than one mantra. You bend and respect all deities, but worship only one for salvation (moksha).

    But then Advaita should suit you. This is the reason why I requested you to undergo a litmus test to meditate for 45 minutes on OM.

    If you manage to sit, then you can continue, if not, then we can think of something different.

    Also note that being lazy or not being social does not mean the mind is pure. Some self-centered people also live this way. Purity and worthyness is mirrored to the seeker when one meditates. The most important thing is that God accepts you and guides you.

    By saying surrendering to God means surrender to the brahman. Though initially you can surrender to Lord Shankara or Shiva (with form), but you do not need to chant his mantra.

    There are times when we re not mentally stable i.e. we are upset or hurt or dis-heartened and you cannot accept things at they are.. At that time, strictly following advaita where have accept things as they are and stay neutral is not possible. Keep emotions inside is like like a time bomb waiting to explode. When your mind is saturated, then there is an out-burst and you may get angry on anyone for no reason. So when attempts to stay neutral fails, then it's better to vent frustration or anger to God. After the emotional outlet, mind calms and you can again follow advaita principles. Mind is not that strong to follow advaita purely. I sometimes even surrender my feelings or emotions to God when I am hurt. though these days, I just stay surrendered (all the time) and be aware and any external influence fades away.

    I simply say, Oh God please take this anger away and give my pure devotion. I just want to surrender to you. I do not visualize any form of God, but still it works. I feel light and relaxed after such surrender. This may not be a pure advaita way, but my mind is not that strong follow pure advaita 100 %. there were times when I even prayed to Sri Ramakrishna. The thing is, mind should become neutral.

    Vairagya or dispassion is absence of (worldly) desires (in mind). It makes one to be one with God as one gives less importance to worldly issues and objects. Also note that vairagya is useful only if it is accompnied by Viveka. So by meaning vairagya means Jnan-Yukta Vairagya i.e. Dispassion accompanied by Discrimination between real (satya) and unreal (A-Sarya) and even illusion (mithya)

    Sri Ramakrishna says:

    Pure Brahman is like ocean, pure water. When freezed by the cold of Bhakti, it forms a definite shape in the form of Ice. Ice is nothing but water. Ocean is pure water without any external changes, while ice is also water, but looks and has different characteristics then water.

    --

    Technically bot hare same. Similarly, when one is worshiping a personal deity like Ram, Krishna, then they are actually worshipping the pure form of God. Just like when you are touching Ice, you are actually touching water. So in Gita Sri Krishna says, *as Pure Brahman* says that everything that you offer finally reaches Me.


    *It is not Bansidhar Krishna i.e. the one holding Flute or Pitambardhari i.e. one wearing dress called as Pitambar. Sri Krishna is saying from Stanpoint of Supreme reality. that is why Gita ends with Jnana Marg and the last chapter is Moksha Sanyas Yog (18th chapter) and not Vishva-rupa Darshan Yog (11th chapter). Arjuna ends with the statement, " my moha (attachment and egoism i.e. identification with body, etc) has perished and I have recalled my true nature ... and I am ready to do as you say (unconditionally). It does not end with something like " I am overwhelmed by your divine vision and just want to stay at your lotus feet"

    Aum
    Last edited by Amrut; 14 December 2012 at 01:28 AM.
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  7. #17
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    Re: Jnana Yoga for beginners?

    I was just browsing some wallpapers quotes on my PC for uploading on desktopnexus and found some quotes on Longing:

    "Not through discourse,
    not through the intellect,
    not even through the study of the scriptures can the Self be realized.
    The Self reveals Himself to the one who longs for the Self.
    Those who long for the Self with all their heart are chosen by the Self as His own."

    ~Mundaka Upanishad 3:2:3

    Sri Ramakrishna on longing. Page nos displayed are from Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna (Sri Ramakrishna Kathamrita). Not all quotes are of advaita nature, but it says that longing is important.

    1. Longing is like the rosy dawn. After the dawn out comes the sun. Longing is followed by the vision of God. P. 83

    2. If the devotee but once feels the attachment and ecstatic love for God, this mature devotion and longing, then he sees God in both His aspects, with form and without form. P. 173

    3. God can be attained by crying to Him with a longing heart. P. 180

    4. Longing is the means of realizing Atman. P. 429

    5. If one takes shelter with God and prays to Him with great longing, God will surely listen; He will certainly make everything favorable. P. 793

    6. What are the glories of that longing? They are discrimination, dispassion, compassion for living beings, serving holy men, loving their company, chanting the name and glories of God, telling the truth, and the like. P. 203

    7. Repeat His name, and sins will disappear. P. 203

    8. One must call on God with a longing heart. P. 346

    9. Longing is the means of realizing Atman. P. 429

    10. A man should practice spiritual discipline and pray to God with a longing heart for love at His Lotus Feet. P. 607

    11. There are two indications of Knowledge of God. First, longing, that is to say, love for God. Second, the awakening of the Kundalini. P. 611

    12. Pray to the Divine Mother with a longing heart. P. 629

    13. Most people don't feel any longing for God unless they have once passed through the experience of wealth, name, fame, creature comforts, and the like, that is to say, unless they have seen through these enjoyments. P. 216

    14. The longing of the worldly-minded for God is momentary, like a drop of water on a red-hot frying-pan. P. 402




    Aum
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  8. #18

    Re: Jnana Yoga for beginners?

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namast



    One needs to better appreciate the meaning of this notion...let me add the following from a past post for one's kind consideration:


    The tapas of renunciation is of great interest to many. This notion of renunciation some call out 'neti-neti' . This is from na-iti . This na = not and iti ; in the brāhmaṇas 'iti' is often equivalent to 'as you know'. Hence na-iti is 'not as you know, not as you perceive'. This is saying you are not what you see. What is being renounced is the false knowledge of what here and now really is.

    Now this renunciation ~typically~ is accompanied/groomed with the idea of detachment over time. The common word used for detachment is vairāgya and we find this in patajalis yogadarśana ( yoga sūtra's) :

    dṛṣṭānuśravikaviṣayavitṛṣṇasya vaśīkārasaṃjā vairāgyam || 15

    Let's see how this word aligns with renunciation. Vairāgyam is defined as aversion , indifference to worldly objects and to life i.e. not this , not this ( neti neti ). It is not defined as 'detachment' , yet this idea does come up in the progression to the full blossoming of vairāgya.
    The word closest to detachment is vyatireka and is defined as distinction, seperation, difference and we find it in this progression ( to vairāgya) I have suggested.
    If we look at this vairāgya by some of its roots , it is that heroic movement away from those things that bind, abondoning those things of the world, that are inimical (adverse in tendency or effect).

    The wise say there is a progression to this state . Here we have the 4 steps (pada):
    • yatamāna - yata = restrained + māna = pride, arrogance. Hence we can see the constraint
      of the small self, the self-centeredness one may have. Now there are some that suggests this is the restraint of sensuous enjoyments.
    • vyatireka - seperation, distinction, difference. This occurs when yatamāna begins to find firm footing in one's daily life. Some may call this detachment, but note it is not the final destination.
    • ekaendriya - this is defined as having but one organ of sense. This has several meanings.
      It suggests that all the organs of sense are subdued/managed accordingly. Yet what is that one ~organ~ that remains intact? It is said the mind remains.
    • vaśīkāra - is the making of power and control - one now has contol power over the senses. We see this in the 15th sūtra patajali-ji offers: dṛṣṭānuśravikaviṣayavitṛṣṇasya vaśīkārasaṃjā vairāgyam ||
    It is these four steps that lead to the 5th vairāgya , that heroic movement to the aversion , indifference to worldly objects and to life. You see this just does not happen, but is the march ( pada) to this condition. It is from this foundation that one is able to successfully renounce.

    iti śiva

    words
    • tapas - is from 'tapa' , heating up; tapas is observances, an approach ; tapasya
    • brāhmaṇas - we find this in the bṛhadaraṇyaka upaniṣad ( some write bṛhadaraṇyakopaniṣad ), mūrta-amūrta brāhmaṇa ( form and formless).
    • roots found in vairāgyam : vaira + ag + ya
      • vaira takes on two ideas :
        • hostile, iminical, revengeful
        • heroism, prowess
      • ag - to move tortuiously
      • ya also takes on few meanings:
        • union ( as to bring the terms above together)
        • restraining, abondoning
        • rooted in means a goer or mover

    Namaste Yajvan-ji,

    Thanks again for your help. And btw, I have a question regarding the pre-requisite of: discriminating between what is eternal/unchanging and what is transient/changing:
    How does one discriminate between the two? I know that I am neither the body, nor the mind, neither any of the koshas, etc... But how could a beginner spiritual seeker see the real/eternal Atman? Or does the discrimination between the two come from the negation of everything that I think of myself? i.e I am neither the body. I am neither the mind. I am not the doer. I am not the enjoyer. etc..? Is this what is meant by discrimination between the real and the unreal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Indiaspirituality View Post
    Namaste Yogic_lighter

    There seems to be some confusion. By referring to God means the same Brahman which is formless attribute and not a personal deity like Rama, Krishna. Shiva is also one of the trinity known by other names like Mahesh and Shankar. There is another meaning of Shiva, meaning 'Kalyan kari' which means auspicious, doing good, beneficial or sometimes even referred to as ever blissful. Many say that Shiva and Shankar are different. Shiva is formless from which everything including trinity emerged.

    The reason I suggested to chant Om Namah Shivaya and worship linga swarupa is that initially you can feel it is a dual worship, but later on, you can shift to non-dual.

    Technically, there is no need to chant more than one mantra. When one can meditate for 3 hours, mantra continues in subconscious mind the whole day even when you are fully concentrating in your work like studying or developing a software (coding). It continues in sub-conscious mind. when you drop the work or just finish the work and relax, spontaneously the mantra pops up, just like a song pops up without making conscious effort to recall it. Even the mantra goes on whole night and the proof or barometer is that the first thought upon waking should be the mantra.

    This is the reason why one should not chant more than one mantra. You bend and respect all deities, but worship only one for salvation (moksha).

    But then Advaita should suit you. This is the reason why I requested you to undergo a litmus test to meditate for 45 minutes on OM.

    If you manage to sit, then you can continue, if not, then we can think of something different.

    Also note that being lazy or not being social does not mean the mind is pure. Some self-centered people also live this way. Purity and worthyness is mirrored to the seeker when one meditates. The most important thing is that God accepts you and guides you.

    By saying surrendering to God means surrender to the brahman. Though initially you can surrender to Lord Shankara or Shiva (with form), but you do not need to chant his mantra.

    There are times when we re not mentally stable i.e. we are upset or hurt or dis-heartened and you cannot accept things at they are.. At that time, strictly following advaita where have accept things as they are and stay neutral is not possible. Keep emotions inside is like like a time bomb waiting to explode. When your mind is saturated, then there is an out-burst and you may get angry on anyone for no reason. So when attempts to stay neutral fails, then it's better to vent frustration or anger to God. After the emotional outlet, mind calms and you can again follow advaita principles. Mind is not that strong to follow advaita purely. I sometimes even surrender my feelings or emotions to God when I am hurt. though these days, I just stay surrendered (all the time) and be aware and any external influence fades away.

    I simply say, Oh God please take this anger away and give my pure devotion. I just want to surrender to you. I do not visualize any form of God, but still it works. I feel light and relaxed after such surrender. This may not be a pure advaita way, but my mind is not that strong follow pure advaita 100 %. there were times when I even prayed to Sri Ramakrishna. The thing is, mind should become neutral.

    Vairagya or dispassion is absence of (worldly) desires (in mind). It makes one to be one with God as one gives less importance to worldly issues and objects. Also note that vairagya is useful only if it is accompnied by Viveka. So by meaning vairagya means Jnan-Yukta Vairagya i.e. Dispassion accompanied by Discrimination between real (satya) and unreal (A-Sarya) and even illusion (mithya)

    Sri Ramakrishna says:

    Pure Brahman is like ocean, pure water. When freezed by the cold of Bhakti, it forms a definite shape in the form of Ice. Ice is nothing but water. Ocean is pure water without any external changes, while ice is also water, but looks and has different characteristics then water.

    --

    Technically bot hare same. Similarly, when one is worshiping a personal deity like Ram, Krishna, then they are actually worshipping the pure form of God. Just like when you are touching Ice, you are actually touching water. So in Gita Sri Krishna says, *as Pure Brahman* says that everything that you offer finally reaches Me.


    *It is not Bansidhar Krishna i.e. the one holding Flute or Pitambardhari i.e. one wearing dress called as Pitambar. Sri Krishna is saying from Stanpoint of Supreme reality. that is why Gita ends with Jnana Marg and the last chapter is Moksha Sanyas Yog (18th chapter) and not Vishva-rupa Darshan Yog (11th chapter). Arjuna ends with the statement, " my moha (attachment and egoism i.e. identification with body, etc) has perished and I have recalled my true nature ... and I am ready to do as you say (unconditionally). It does not end with something like " I am overwhelmed by your divine vision and just want to stay at your lotus feet"

    Aum
    Namaste Indiaspirituality,

    I know that when you refer to God you are referring to Brahman. And to me, it doesn't really matter what you call him. What I meant is that Brahman is saguna and nirguna. dual and non dual.
    Thanks again for everything, and for helping me in my spiritual path. I also read some of your thoughts, in the website you gave me. They were great. And btw, the most awesome thing I find is how Sri Ramakrishna finds all the paths leading to the same result.
    Also, I've read somewhere that bhakti leads to non-duality, by the union of love between God and the God-lover. Is that true?

  9. #19

    Re: Jnana Yoga for beginners?

    Also, I forgot to ask: What do I envision in my mind when I chant a mantra? For example if I am chanting Om Namah Shivaya, do I envision ॐ नमः शिवाय in my mind, or what?

  10. #20
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    Re: Jnana Yoga for beginners?

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namast

    Quote Originally Posted by Yogic_lighter View Post
    Namaste Yajvan-ji,
    I have a question regarding the pre-requisite of: discriminating between what is eternal/unchanging and what is transient/changing:
    How does one discriminate between the two? I know that I am neither the body, nor the mind, neither any of the koshas, etc... But how could a beginner spiritual seeker see the real/eternal Atman?
    This is an excellent question and is the subject matter of patajali’s yogadarśana ( yoga sūtra's). It is the distinction between Self and non-Self. Let me say this ... it is not an intellectual construct from the vantage point of thinking. It is from the direct experience of Self. Then one sees what non-Self is.
    Within patajali’s sūtra's he calls it out as the distinction between the buddhi ( intellect) and puruṣa. This puruṣa within the sāṃkhya view of Reality ( of which the yoga sūtra-s participates) is ātman, some say the spirit, others say Self, an observer (spectator) of the active field of life( prakṛti).

    You see, it is the silence of the Self, all else is then non-Self or the active field of life. This is the discrimination one is grooming within one's spiritual practice. It is not a mood of the mind, but a direct experience. It is not some thinking technique that leaves you within the field of action, of the intellect. It is when the intellect is also seen as an object - then one is resting in the Self - and all else is non-self. See how it cannot be some mental gymnastics ?
    It is the yoga sūtra's which grooms this ability - and too there are other approaches which look to groom madhya - the center, or the gap, where this pure awareness shines though. It is though grooming this pure awareness that one comes to know this distinction.

    iti śivaṁ
    Last edited by yajvan; 14 December 2012 at 02:00 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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