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Thread: Evanjihadism in Asia

  1. #11
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    Re: Evanjihadism in Asia

    Pranam Atanu ji

    Can we have other views also?
    Yes but of course, it is with constant Vichar one finds an answer or answers, so perhaps we can have your valued input on this.


    I put in an additional query here.
    You never let my mind to rest and i have answered this post with tired mind, so do forgive me if i dont make sense, but I thank you for engaging me.

    Is the hatred that results in cowardice violence culture specific?

    No, it is inherent in everyone; everyone is capable to reach the height of divinity or degenerate in to becoming lowest of the low.


    Or does such hatred sprout from 'Me amd Mine' on one hand and 'They and Other' on the other?

    Which of the above two is more fundamental?(We know of violence/war etc., from the beginning of time. )

    Ignorance of both is the fundamental problem.

    The world is full of duality, if you look at cosmic level, (sarg and vSarga) creation and destruction; the day is preceded by night.

    The divine and the demonic are both born in this world.
    dvau bhuta-sargau loke 'smin
    daiva asura eva ca

    The struggle between good and bad is, it seems, an eternal struggle.

    Vidhya leads to Moksa or toward light aVidhya binds us in this world.

    If we love one then we hate the other, unfortunately we sit on the fence sometimes pulled one way then the other and the struggle goes on.

    aSatoma Sat Gamaya, tamasoMa joytir gamaya
    MritumMa Amrutam gamaya



    Om Namah Shivayya Jai Shree Krishna
    Last edited by Ganeshprasad; 21 February 2007 at 11:44 AM.
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  2. #12
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    Re: Evanjihadism in Asia

    If we love one then we hate the other, unfortunately we sit on the fence sometimes pulled one way then the other and the struggle goes on.

    Love never dies.

    I like to accept the notion that I love everyone, everything; there is no difference.

    There is no hate, as there is no other.




    ZN
    yaireva patanaM dravyaiH siddhistaireva choditA .
    shrI kauladarshane chApi bhairaveNa mahAtmanA .

    It is revealed in the sacred doctrine of Kula and by the great Bhairava, that the perfection is achieved by that very means by which fall occurs.

  3. #13
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    Re: Evanjihadism in Asia

    Pranam Znanna

    Love never dies.

    I like to accept the notion that I love everyone, everything; there is no difference.

    There is no hate, as there is no other.
    Granted love is the highest expression, one can see that manifest in mother’s unconditional love for her children also, and yet resentment also sprouts as one notice the naughty one get the rewards.

    Until the final goal is realized, such notion that there is no hate is futile in this dualistic world.
    If I love peace and harmony (Shivam) then by default I hate violence and discord.


    In the context of the discussion, the violence, the deceit against Dharma, I may learn to forgive the perpetrator, but I can not be indifferent to acts of violence and deceit.

    Even the lord discriminates.

    ahankaram balam darpam
    kamam krodham ca samsritah
    mam atma-para-dehesu
    pradvisanto 'bhyasuyakah

    Clinging to egoism, power, arrogance, lust, and anger; these malicious people hate Me (who dwells) in their own body and others' bodies. (16.18)
    tan aham dvisatah kruran

    samsaresu naradhaman
    ksipamy ajasram asubhan
    asurisv eva yonisu

    I hurl these haters, cruel, sinful, and mean people of the world, into the wombs of demons again and again.
    16.19)

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  4. #14
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    Re: Evanjihadism in Asia

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad View Post
    ----

    The Lord does not take the (responsibility for) good or evil deeds of anybody. The knowledge is covered by (the veil of) ignorance, thereby people are deluded. (5.15)


    I hurl these haters, cruel, sinful, and mean people of the world, into the wombs of demons again and again.
    16.19)
    Namaskar Ganesh Ji

    1. I find the above a bit confusing. If Lord is not responsible for good or evil deeds of His subjects then how He gains the right to punish?

    2. What is ignorance and what is knowledge?

    3. If one gains the knowledge do the problems of the world go away for the Jnani and for others?


    I am sorry for tiring you. But let us find out whether the hatred problem has ever been solved by any other method but by the gain of knowledge?

    Anyone who sees any difference in Brahman is predicated to have great fall. So, where are the differences?


    Om Namah Shivayya

    Note: Would be delighted if Yajvan Ji, Nirotu Ji, Skill Ji and others (including Satay Ji) participated.
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  5. #15
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    Re: Evanjihadism in Asia

    Pranam Atanu ji

    1. I find the above a bit confusing. If Lord is not responsible for good or evil deeds of His subjects then how He gains the right to punish?
    Precisely if it is my act how is it some how some one else’s responsibility? The judge passes a sentence based on laws. And what a judge this one is, he is so merciful that he is only providing what one is desiring. So if we desire lawlessness he gives an opportunity in the jungle where there are no laws.

    2. What is ignorance and what is knowledge?
    From relative to absolute these are both applicable.

    If I violate a simple law i.e. cross the junction on red, the authority will come down heavily or worse I cause accident.

    For those who seek mukti from this perpetual place of misery, seek the shelter of the absolute and there are paths, carved out by the rishy of yore or consult the shastras as recommended by the lord in chapter 16 of the Gita verse 24

    tasmac chastram pramanam te
    karyakarya-vyavasthitau
    jnatva sastra-vidhanoktam
    karma kartum iharhasi


    3. If one gains the knowledge do the problems of the world go away for the Jnani and for others?

    sreyo hi jnanam abhyasaj
    jnanad dhyanam visisyate
    dhyanat karma-phala-tyagas
    tyagac chantir anantaram

    advesta sarva-bhutanam
    maitrah karuna eva ca
    nirmamo nirahankarah
    sama-duhkha-sukhah ksami

    santustah satatam yogi
    yatatma drdha-niscayah
    mayy arpita-mano-buddhir
    yo mad-bhaktah sa me priyah

    Knowledge is better than mere ritualistic practice, meditation is better than mere knowledge, renunciation of the fruit of work is better than meditation, peace immediately follows the renunciation of (the attachment to) the fruit of work. (See more on renunciation in Chapter 18) (12.12)

    One who does not hate any creature, who is friendly and compassionate, free from (the notion of) "I" and "my", even-minded in pain and pleasure, forgiving; and (12.13)

    The yogi who is ever content, who has subdued the mind, whose resolve is firm, whose mind and intellect are engaged in dwelling upon Me; such a devotee is dear to Me. (12.14)

    These are all great virtues and the vivek we see, are perhaps more understood in following the Dharma, then what I have come across off religions foreign to us.

    Arjun having understood the Gita declared now my Moha is gone and I will do as you ask.

    Visvamitra sought the help of Lord Ram to destroy the Raksasa.

    Knowledge alone does not solve every thing, especially if it is one sided.


    But let us find out whether the hatred problem has ever been solved by any other method but by the gain of knowledge?
    Problem of hate will never go in this dualistic world.

    There were knowledgeable people on both sides in the Kuru Pandav war, from Krisna and Youdhister to Bhismapita Drona yet the war was inevitable.

    Would Hitler have listen to reason?

    Anyone who sees any difference in Brahman is predicated to have great fall. So, where are the differences?
    The very fact you talk about the differences, or else who is predicted for the fall, why the statement at all?

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  6. #16
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    Re: Evanjihadism in Asia

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad View Post
    Pranam Atanu ji

    Precisely if it is my act how is it some how some one else’s responsibility? The judge passes a sentence based on laws. And what a judge this one is, he is so merciful that he is only providing what one is desiring. So if we desire lawlessness he gives an opportunity in the jungle where there are no laws.
    -----
    Namaskar Ganesh Prasad Ji,

    Exactly. The acts are mine. So, I should suffer. Alternately, the responsiblity of a calm consciousness is also mine.
    But I had left out another reference, which I bring in now.

    Lord Krishna says: Lord has tied Jivas on an automaton and left them to rotate (not exact translation of course). How this goes with the verse that Lord is not responsible for mistakes etc.? Are we dealing with two Lords?


    I have not yet studied the rest of your post. I will do it at leisure and put more queries.

    Om Namah Shivayya
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  7. #17
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    Re: Evanjihadism in Asia

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad View Post
    Pranam Atanu ji

    ---------
    Anyone who sees any difference in Brahman is predicated to have great fall. So, where are the differences?

    The very fact you talk about the differences, or else who is predicted for the fall, why the statement at all?

    Jai Shree Krishna

    So, we have a contradiction here? One has to see the difference less Brahman -- so one has to be another?

    How can another see difference less Brahman?
    How can one know/see advaita atma by being a second to it?


    Om Namah Shivayya
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  8. #18
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    Re: Evanjihadism in Asia

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad View Post
    Pranam Atanu ji
    -----
    From relative to absolute these are both applicable.

    ------

    -----

    One who does not hate any creature, who is friendly and compassionate, free from (the notion of) "I" and "my", even-minded in pain and pleasure, forgiving; and (12.13)

    -----

    Knowledge alone does not solve every thing, especially if it is one sided.

    ---

    Pranam,

    When I said knowledge I of course meant meditative knowledge incuding renunciation of ego. Even from 12.13 (above), it is clear that the wise are the ones who have given up/lost the notion of 'I and Mine'. So, when we stick to an individual I, can we ever be close to wisdom?


    And when one has clearly seen that the I is Lord Himself (and that the ego has no capacity to feel and say I), then who is against whom? What is mine and what is them? Repeat: To one who has given up the notion of I, what is mine and what is His?


    Regards

    Om Namah Shivayya
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  9. #19
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    Re: Evanjihadism in Asia

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad View Post
    Pranam Atanu ji

    ----------

    The very fact you talk about the differences, or else who is predicted for the fall, why the statement at all?

    Jai Shree Krishna

    Isn't the notion of I as a discrete individual, separate from Brahman, the fall?

    Let us see whether contradictions can be resolved by words or not?


    Om Namah Shivayya
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  10. #20

    Re: Evanjihadism in Asia

    Quote Originally Posted by Znanna View Post
    There is no hate, as there is no other.

    ZN
    While this may be true to the one who has realized thus, I have to say it is absolutely impractical and futile as a dogma.

    Better is to try not to have hate and stand firm for the right. When one fights for the right and just, it cannot be hate as it is dharma.
    What is Here, is Elsewhere. What is not Here, is Nowhere.

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