Evanjihadism in Asia

[sm78]

If I love peace and harmony (Shivam) then by default I hate violence and discord.

You have hit the hammer right on the nail GP.

[Znanna]

While this may be true to the one who has realized thus, I have to say it is absolutely impractical and futile as a dogma.

Better is to try not to have hate and stand firm for the right. When one fights for the right and just, it cannot be hate as it is dharma.

Namaste,

It seems to me that fighting itself is impractical as dogma, as it implies one is fighting *against* something which is "other", thus is intrinsically dualistic.

"I'm other you" = "I love you" in old Scots Gaelic


ZN

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam Atanu ji

Exactly. The acts are mine. So, I should suffer. Alternately, the responsiblity of a calm consciousness is also mine.
But I had left out another reference, which I bring in now.

Lord Krishna says: Lord has tied Jivas on an automaton and left them to rotate (not exact translation of course). How this goes with the verse that Lord is not responsible for mistakes etc.? Are we dealing with two Lords?

Certainly not, and there can be no contradictions in what Krishna says, the fault is ours in understanding, we are all guilty of putting on certain color glass and view from that perspective.


A jihadi armed with the knowledge (misguided) that janat awaits me if I kill a kafir and a kaffir if he thinks there is no other (fear not love all) gets killed. This to me is a cope out, not wanting to deal with a situation.

Coming back to query of lord’s responsibility and verse you mention,

isvarah sarva-bhutanam
hrd-dese 'rjuna tisthati
bhramayan sarva-bhutani
yantrarudhani mayaya

The Lord abides in the heart of all beings, O Arjuna, causing all beings to act (or work out their Karma) by His power of Maya as if they are (puppets of Karma) mounted on a machine. (18.61)

This seems as if we have no choice or responsibility for our action but if you read previous two verses then you might understand what is meant ( yantrarudhani mayaya) this automation is our previous desires and karma, since he is the witness as the supersoul we get what we deserve, and is carried by the material body which is created in the material energy under the direction of the Supersoul.


If due to ego you think: I shall not fight; this resolve of yours is vain. Your own nature will compel you (to fight). (18.59)
What you do not wish to do out of delusion; you shall do even that against your will, bound by your own nature-born Karma, O Arjuna. (18.60)

Jai Shree Krishna

[Ganeshprasad]

Namaskar

So, we have a contradiction here? One has to see the difference less Brahman -- so one has to be another?

How can another see difference less Brahman?
How can one know/see advaita atma by being a second to it?

Concepts, the apparent contradictions, these are well beyond me, until I am realized it will remain So.If I am Brahman or parts and verities within, which is a great mystery, all this has no value, if our endeavor to follow Dharma, to unravel that mystery, is constantly disturbed and challenged.

This is what Krishna says about differences.

na tv evaham jatu nasam
na tvam neme janadhipah
na caiva na bhavisyamah
sarve vayam atah param



There was never a time when I, you, or these kings did not exist; nor shall we ever cease to exist in the future. (2.12)



mattah parataram nanyat
kincid asti dhananjaya
mayi sarvam idam protam
sutre mani-gana iva

O conqueror of wealth [Arjuna], there is no Truth superior to Me. Everything rests upon Me, as pearls are strung on a thread. (7.07)

maya tatam idam sarvam
jagad avyakta-murtina
mat-sthani sarva-bhutani
na caham tesv avasthitah

By Me, in My unmanifested form, this entire universe is pervaded. All beings are in Me, but I am not in them. (9.04)

na ca mat-sthani bhutani
pasya me yogam aisvaram
bhuta-bhrn na ca bhuta-stho
mamatma bhuta-bhavanah

And yet beings, in reality, do not remain in Me. Look at the power of My divine mystery. Though the sustainer and creator of all beings, I do not remain in them. (9.05)



yathakasa-sthito nityam
vayuh sarvatra-go mahan
tatha sarvani bhutani
mat-sthanity upadharaya

As the mighty wind, blowing everywhere, always rests in ethereal space, know that in the same manner all beings rest in Me.(9.06)

mamaivamso jiva-loke
jiva-bhutah sanatanah
manah-sasthanindriyani
prakrti-sthani karsati

Atma in the body is My eternal indivisible fragment indeed. Atma gets bound (or attached, and is called Jeevaatma) due to superimposition or association with the six sensory faculties, including the mind, of perception. (15.07)


Jai Shree Krishna

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam

When I said knowledge I of course meant meditative knowledge incuding renunciation of ego. Even from 12.13 (above), it is clear that the wise are the ones who have given up/lost the notion of 'I and Mine'. So, when we stick to an individual I, can we ever be close to wisdom?


And when one has clearly seen that the I is Lord Himself (and that the ego has no capacity to feel and say I), then who is against whom? What is mine and what is them? Repeat: To one who has given up the notion of I, what is mine and what is His?

Knowledge is a great asset but the realization of it, is a far cry.
If you have given up the notion of I then I guess there is nothing further to say.

I also pointed out such virtues are great within equals and of the same school, harmony and peace is maintained

Arjun had the same dilemma, he saw fit to withdraw in to the jungle and become a mendicant, overcome by grief, he also questioned if knowledge was so great why push him in to ghastly action?

Arjuna said: If You consider that transcendental knowledge is better than work then why do You want me to engage in this horrible war, O Krishna? (3.01)


Here is what the lord says

na karmanam anarambhan
naiskarmyam puruso 'snute
na ca sannyasanad eva
siddhim samadhigacchati

na hi kascit ksanam api
jatu tisthaty akarma-krt
karyate hy avasah karma
sarvah prakrti-jair gunaih

One does not attain freedom from the bondage of Karma by merely abstaining from work. No one attains perfection by merely giving up work. (3.04)

Because no one can remain actionless even for a moment. Everyone is driven to action, helplessly indeed, by the Gunas of nature. (3.05)

Jai Shree Krishna

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam Atanu ji

Isn't the notion of I as a discrete individual, separate from Brahman, the fall?

Let us see whether contradictions can be resolved by words or not?

The fall indeed is a great mystery, the sat chit and anand quality, how it gets deluded, is a bigger mystery, if you can, please let me know.

Words do not resolve contradiction there is always a scope for misunderstandings, action and realization does so uthistha and do your duty that is the message from Gita.

Jai Shree Krishna

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam SM

Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad
If I love peace and harmony (Shivam) then by default I hate violence and discord.

You have hit the hammer right on the nail GP.

I am glad you think so, it seems some of our friends here are in denial and want to reconcile all the differences in adwitam, meanwhile those who don’t care or respect our Dharma have a field day.

This is precisely how Mohammed gajvi (spelling), who came as an enemy and who was forgiven few times, had an opportunity to come back and the rest is history

Jai Shree Krishna

[Znanna]

Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad
If I love peace and harmony (Shivam) then by default I hate violence and discord.

Um, I know no polite way to say this, but this is so divisive that it reminds me of debates I've had with fundamentalist Christians who say sin isn't sin if it's justified.

YMMV



ZN

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam

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Um, I know no polite way to say this, but this is so divisive that it reminds me of debates I've had with fundamentalist Christians who say sin isn't sin if it's justified.





ZN

Well it is so easy to make statements without giving any reason.

Unlike your Christians fundamentalist, I have not denied anything, not even your notion on love so why the implication?


In the context of my statement as a whole how do you justify your stance and I quote again

Love never dies.

I like to accept the notion that I love everyone, everything; there is no difference.

There is no hate, as there is no other.

My answer
Granted love is the highest expression, one can see that manifest in mother’s unconditional love for her children also, and yet resentment also sprouts as one notice the naughty one get the rewards.

Until the final goal is realized, such notion that there is no hate is futile in this dualistic world.
If I love peace and harmony (Shivam) then by default I hate violence and discord.
In the context of the discussion, the violence, the deceit against Dharma, I may learn to forgive the perpetrator, but I can not be indifferent to acts of violence and deceit.

If the statement "sin isn’t if it’s justified" not acceptable to you, then why violence and discord, (which directly contradicts peace and harmony) be acceptable.


Why this thread in the first place, did you expect any reaction?

YMMV

What is this?


Jai Shree Krishna

[atanu]

If I love peace and harmony (Shivam) then by default I hate violence and discord.

You have hit the hammer right on the nail GP.

Namaskar Ganesh Prasad Ji and Namaskar SM,

Right on the nail?

Loving God means there is nothing else to hate as God is ALL. So, there is some confusion as to which is nail and which is hammer.


Om Namah Shivayya