The Fifth Veda - Pancama Veda

[ShivaFan]

Namaste

Let's have some well deserved round table on a topic which can not only provide interest, but perhaps shed some light on history.

I often hear that the Ayurveda is "The Fifth Veda". That seems to hold solid ground to layman such as myself, after all the very word Veda is there. But, I have sat in Ramayana teachings where the Indian savant says the Ramayana is the Fifth Veda or "pancama veda".

I have heard Tamil literature and revelations by Saints as being called the Panchama ved.

I have been told there is a Fifth Veda told by Lord Shiva to ParvatI which is a "lost Veda" or "secret veda" of Siddhas.

ISKCON uses the term a lot, that the Srimad Bhagavatam is the Fifth Veda. There are Vaishnava texts which quote other Vaishnava sacred texts are the Fifth Veda ranging from the Mahabharata to specifically the Gita.

Is the term panchama veda simply a "catch all" term meaning any important sacred text other than the Four Vedas, or is it a secret, or an actual Fifth Veda with a specific name?

Om Namah Sivaya

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namast�

When we talk of āyur-veda ( and some others) it fits into the upaveda ( upa� = near to) class of knowledge:

• āyur-veda - knowledge of life or longivity
• dhanurveda - knowledge of archery
• gāndharva-veda -knowledge of music, melody and the like
• śastra-śāstra - knowledge of arms/military

some also call out :

• sthāpatya-veda or knowledge of architecture
• śilpa-śāstra - knowledge of the arts

Yet too we hear the following:
itihāsapurāṇaṃ pa�camaṃ vedānāṃ is called out in the Chāndogya Upaniṣad (7.1.2); It reads like this (Nārada is speaking to Sanatkumāra-ji); Revered sir I have learned the ṛgveda, yajurveda, samāveda, the atharvaveda the 4th, the itihāsa-s and purāṇa-s as the 5th veda, etc. etc.

The Mahābhārata is classified as itihāsa (history) , and hence Nārada's reference to it as the 5th.

Another reference is in the Mahābhārata itself. Ādi (first) Parva (division or section) , says the following: The learned man who recites to others this veda of Vyāsa (Kṛṣṇa Dvaipāyana) reaps advantage. We can see here how veda is being applied as the notion of 'knowledge'.

Hence the epithet of it considered a 5th veda.

iti śivaṁ

1. upa - can infer 'younger' as a younger brother of ; it also means 'near to' ; it is rooted in √gam , to go near , undergo

[ShivaFan]

Namaste Yajvan

Would the Ramayana ever be considered "a Fifth Veda" (emphasis on "a" as if more than one), or other Histories, Puranas? Or only Mahabharata?

Om Namah Sivaya

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namast�

Namaste Yajvan
Would the Ramayana ever be considered "a Fifth Veda" (emphasis on "a" as if more than one), or other Histories, Puranas? Or only Mahabharata?
Om Namah Sivaya

Because the rāmāyaṇa is an itihāsa, and based on what nārada-ji has said, (see last post above), the itihāsa-s and purāṇa-s are considered the 5th veda.
Now what does that mean ? They are adored, upheld, valued & viewed with great respect.

iti śivaṁ

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~~

namast�

Vyāsa-ji (kṛṣṇa dvaipāyana) author of the mahābhārata informs us of the following:

"Whatever is here ( in the mahābhārata) is found elsewhere. But whatever is not here (in the mahābhārata) is nowhere else."

The point to be made is the itihāsa-s and purāṇa-s (original works) are the way the wise 'throttled-down' the classical veda-s for people to better understand the most recondite� knowledge and ideas that reside in the depths of the veda-s (saṃhitā-s, brāhmaṇa-s, upaniṣad-s, etc.).

iti śivaṁ

1. recondite - abstruse, secret, deep

[ShivaFan]

Namaste Yajvan

This is fantastic! You have made me very happy today. The Ramayana is the wonderful history and a Fifth Veda.

Om Namah Sivaya