that whole God and the anathema of existence nonsense

[Anirudh]

Pranaam Shiva Fan,

voices and answers are all around us

Have heard about the crane story....

The dove in your yard may have an answer for you, to be with Lord Shiva.

but can you share the mythological event related to the above statement.

[Kumar_Das]

Namaste

We all have abilities beyond what an individual may think, and as souls we chose our own mistakes even though voices and answers are all around us and even in the stones there are sermons.

Valmiki we are told wrote the Ramayana. So we are told, but perhaps it is more than we think. It was the pitiful crys of a female bird who lost her husband that inspired Valmiki to speak the first verse that would become the Ramayana. And Valmiki Himself would make clear in opening moments of the progression into this History, that it was the crys of this bird from which He took narration from.

The dove in your yard may have an answer for you, to be with Lord Shiva. The universe is full of voices and answers, we can be more than what we are. Ask Hanuman, He knows. We make our own chains, too often and we rush everything. But maybe it isn't so hard after all. We can become monsters, but in the long run most will find the easy way which is what devotees do, and that is to listen and look. And it doesn't hurt to read something, too. Like the Ramayana.

Om Namah Sivaya

Sorry but you are too cryptic for me to understand. I can see that you're alluding to something but can't quite see where you're going with this. Could you please elaborate yourself.

[Twilightdance]

Sorry but you are too cryptic for me to understand. I can see that you're alluding to something but can't quite see where you're going with this. Could you please elaborate yourself.

He is saying, even without your marvelous effort of using their logic against them by turning it [the logic] on its head thereby(?) exposing their hypocrisy, they will still realize the truth in due time. I am not sure if he is also suggesting that your commendable use of reverse logic might not expedite their realization of the truth or exposure of their hypocrisy.

[Kumar_Das]

People say that the world is so miserable and thus God is cruel and subsequently is thus unworthy of worship.

Ok we shall play by your own point

Let's say God doesn't exist, as such you cannot find God responsible for the status of the world.

What else then to attribute the condition of the world to?

The universe! You should rightfully then take your complaints to the universe if you can't attribute it to God.

So the universe is messed up correct? Why don't you kill yourself? It is as you make it bad afterall! It's so depressingly miserable and full of evil that any cause of it is something you will never surmount to celebrating it. After if you don't worship God because of this it does mean you disagree with the status of the world.

If you don't kill yourself it means you still insomeway accept the universe!

If you can accept the universe then why can't you accept the cause of it?

Pain, suffering and natural disasters exists to show how powerless and weak man is and how he should be humble to greater things that are a threat/impediment to his existence.

I just realized how messed up this whole "using their reasoning" is in the sense that a true worshipper wouldn't care about the world as a reason to worship God. No matter how bad the world was, the wickedness/faultyness/poor condition of the world wouldn't obstruct them from worshipping God.

If they do feel connected to the world. It would be that of responsibility. And they would praying to God for answers. That sense of responsibility would stir them from within. That is the catalyst that creates a spiritual-leader.

Spiritual-leaders act the will of God. It is in the will of God for Him to appoint leaders who care the most for his property.(world)

The above mentioned people are pessimists who take their pessimism as excuses.

[Kumar_Das]

Devotion to God is seeing any reason as the reason all the more to worship God, aversion to God(dvesha) is to criticize and seek any reason to all the more not-worship God. Truth of the matter is no single reason is enough for worshipping God. Because we owe ourselves to God more than we can ever recognize.

[Kumar_Das]

I made a disclaimer that I perceive their not worshiping God in spite of their complaints against Him as something they can be responsible for and that is terminating their life(if you find yourself somewhere and can't bear being in there then it follows that the only reasonable thing is to get out of there)

Thats because they are still abiding(residents) in the owned estate(universe) of my Supreme Father and using his properties(food, air and water) while having the nerve to complain and I find that offensive and take it personally because they think they know better than my Father(arrogance, dissatisfaction) and instead of using their freedom to make things better in line with what they prefer they declare resignation from the cosmic order verbally(cop out). They want Him to cater to them when its actually more of the other way around!

Do you find it difficult to think positive thoughts? There is so much for which we can all be thankful. Rabbi Avigdor Miller says, “A person who is depressed has a lack of hakaros hatov (appreciation) for what he has been given.” Make a list of everything for which you are grateful and read it every morning.If you find your mind dwelling on negative thoughts during the day, read the list again. Do we ever thank Hashem for the simple things? Walking the hallways of a hospital or nursing home, it is virtually impossible to ignore all the things we take for granted. Does seeing someone on a respirator help us realize how much we should value our ability to breathe? Are we thankful for our functioning extremities when we see someone in a wheelchair, being fed because they lost use of their arms as well as their legs? Do such sights encourage us to take better care of our bodies and appreciate the gift of life? Or do we squander our lives depressed about things we cannot change, failing to recognize the limits of our own mortality? Rabbi Chayim Zaitchyk said, “Be aware of the great value of being alive. When you realize the great treasure that lies in every second of life, you will experience the great joy that is in inherent in each moment. This awareness will motivate you to utilize each moment to its fullest.”

http://simcha.ilovetorah.com/



Two guys of two diff religions. All saying essentially the same with regards to the same thing (religious topics).

Sooo... how is religion a "man-made" thing? How is it fancy and against human nature?

We never had anything to do with each other. Never read what each other said.

The only common thing we have is our approaching/love for the Supreme Being.

That shows we are not speaking "on our own". I know I am not "correct" because of what I said but rather because I look up to the Lord. He likely feels the same way of what "he says". What we both stated are in tandum with each other.

From my side all I can say is, I extend my heart out to people like him out of a sense of brotherhood in our adoration of the Supreme Being. And their adoration of a Supreme Being is the topmost thing that is considered when they are being evaluated.

If only we can settle our differences and resentments on this basis.

Actually they have done more against me... all I'm ever doing... well is to point things out.

Anyways I bet that guy is a Cohen... Or well atleast... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J-P209_(Y-DNA)

Not to sound rude or anything or offend anybody but...

keywords: depression, non-appreciation, things to be grateful for, value of life



Only those of us speaking about religion and being religious are the ones drawn to God.

We are the main guys and the guys who matter.

So... how are others "chosen"? When they just mostly people who are taught, who follow and are almost always being led?

Notice how we both said what we said as responses to what other people asked/said?

I want to come on here to discuss about religion. They drive me away.

[Sudarshan]

People say that the world is so miserable and thus God is cruel and subsequently is thus unworthy of worship.

Ok we shall play by your own point

Let's say God doesn't exist, as such you cannot find God responsible for the status of the world.

What else then to attribute the condition of the world to?

The universe! You should rightfully then take your complaints to the universe if you can't attribute it to God.

So the universe is messed up correct? Why don't you kill yourself? It is as you make it bad afterall! It's so depressingly miserable and full of evil that any cause of it is something you will never surmount to celebrating it. After if you don't worship God because of this it does mean you disagree with the status of the world.

If you don't kill yourself it means you still insomeway accept the universe!

If you can accept the universe then why can't you accept the cause of it?

Pain, suffering and natural disasters exists to show how powerless and weak man is and how he should be humble to greater things that are a threat/impediment to his existence.

If universe is the cause of all misery so be it. Does the universe do it intentionally, does it have awareness of what "he" is doing?

Let us say you walk down the road. There is a terrace and a big pot over there. The pot falls on your head by chance and it hurts. What would be your reaction? What would be your reaction if the pot was actually thrown at you by another person? Would your reactions be the same?

I don't think so. The first case would be dismissed by most of us as "bad day" and we do not go to the court to sue the pot. In the second case we would be furious at the person who threw the pot at us and demand justice.

More importantly, think about whether all the cruelty and misery in the world is relative or absolute. Is there any definitive event or entity in the universe that can be declared "absolutely evil"? Every day your immune system is killing millions of bacteria so are you an evil person?? If the bacteria claim that you are an evil tyrant and mass exterminator would you accept that?

God, from his own point of view is beyond our notions of goodness and evil. If humans decide God created evil based on their own limited perception of reality, then how does it matter to God?