Older male native Hindu
Namaste,
In the land of Saraswati, Parvati, Durga, Uma, Laxmi......
Have we come down to this level?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-20753075
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-20778668
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-20774611
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-20765364
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3201908.stm
Pranam.
Last edited by Believer; 23 December 2012 at 05:14 PM.
New Member
sIt would be just be a prejudice to assume that abuse of women is a new thing.Originally Posted by Believer
NCR has always been the worst place for women in India topped by only western UP and Haryana.
What is disturbing to me is the apathy of the administration. The extreme brutality combined with a middle class educated victim [instead of a improvised village girl] has shaken up sleeping urban middle class of India who now suddenly feel they are not safe anymore. However, this whole year an unusually high frequency of such events have been happening brazenly without any action from administration in rural areas of Haryana. These incidents along with the Khap panchayet justice system really begs the question if India is at all a civilized nation?
When govt is incapable of doing anything sensible and concrete to protect women of the country, only option left is that the citizens prepare to protect themselves against such incidents. All women can carry pepper sprays which are very effective to my knowledge to stop this type of things escalating. One can even think of carrying illegal firearms if the locality is especially prone to violence against the weak. Spending sometime in jail would be infinitely better option than going through what happened to this paramedic student.
Why are you unhappy? Because 99.9 per cent Of everything you think, And of everything you do, Is for yourself —And there isn't one
Hindu at Heart
What? The problem with this is that it places the burden of responsibility on the woman. It makes it the woman's job to prevent her own rape so that in the minds of the populace if "she didn't have pepper spray she deserved it."
Sorry, but that doesn't fly. The problem won't go away with increased fire-arms and arming women. A single man is strong enough to overpower a woman, so how effective would a can of pepper spray be against four attackers anyway?
The problem of rape and sexual crimes has to do with an entire society believing that since it's inevitable, there's no point in doing anything about it. The problem is rampant in the US as well. There's even a phrase for it here, "Rape Culture" - which is a society that undermines it's own efforts to stop rape by encouraging shame in the victim, telling her if she says no she's a tease and a prude at the same time, and by raising boys to think they have some sort of right to a woman's body whenever they please.
Men and boys need to be re-educated, and women need to be encouraged to come forward, and society needs to stop blaming the victim.
It's a shame that this type of crime is still very alive and well all over the world.
Peace.
"God will not have his work made manifest by cowards."
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
New Member
Very good, go and change the mind set of the whole society. Best of luck.
Why are you unhappy? Because 99.9 per cent Of everything you think, And of everything you do, Is for yourself —And there isn't one
DevakÄma
Namasté,
Have we come down to this level?
Believer, consider this: this kind of violent assault has been perpetuated against women for many, many centuries; people have not "come down to this level" in modern times only. But nowadays such attacks are publicly reported upon, because the news is expected to draw attention (and even action, via protest), through a shared sense of outrage. So, though the crime itself continues to be a horror, I do take heart, a little, from the publication of actual articles about it - as opposed to just sweeping it under the rug and pretending it didn't happen.
All women can carry pepper sprays--
In India, women can. But pepper spray is illegal in many parts of the world, including my country, where using such spray on another person could stick me with a fine of hundreds of thousands of dollars and/or jail time, if it results in serious harm to that person.
Pepper spray also becomes ineffective the moment a woman's hands are grabbed.
"What was, what is, what will be: I am That." -from BÄá¹£kalamantra Upaniá¹£ad
New Member
It is better to have chance than having none at all. Recently in Bangalore a lady got into a small accident which flared up. Her being of north eastern origin made it worse. Guess what, with pepper spray she could effectively incapacitate 20 odd men who could have potentially assaulted her. So it seems it can work. This incident it is not known if the lady was in trouble or created all the trouble since a traffic police is also in her victim list.
Why are you unhappy? Because 99.9 per cent Of everything you think, And of everything you do, Is for yourself —And there isn't one
New Member
Just down south of your country I gather one can shoot and kill teenagers and not even get arrested for standing their ground.
I have been to Switzerland, and I can understand that why I would not be bothered about spray. If administration is that effective, nothing is needed. Not sure if Canada falls in the same league.
Why are you unhappy? Because 99.9 per cent Of everything you think, And of everything you do, Is for yourself —And there isn't one
searching for rasa
"We" have not come down to this level. This is the logical result of the ongoing campaign among Christians and academics to destroy the faith of the Hindu people in their own religion. Having no faith in Hinduism means having no faith in dharma, no motivation towards virtuous behavior, and thus degenerating to the level of rascals who only care about satisfying the desires of their bellies and their genitals.
A lot of Hindus do not believe in Hell, but our scriptures speak differently. They speak of many levels of hell where evil-minded people are tormented in direct proportion to the torment the have inflicted on others. These individuals are going to such Hells, of this I have no doubt.
Philosoraptor
"Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato
Aum Gam Ganapataye Namah
Namaste
It is very upsetting, now that we see a victim of this crime has left her body. Of course, my natural reaction is anger, frankly I started saying things about the house such as “I hope they execute these pigs!” … One of my sister in laws has observed seeing criminals who were hanged in public in an Arab country and left hanging from a public light tower. Not sure what I should say, but sometimes I think it is fitting, but I won’t go there. Truthfully, I do not know what should be done with them, I hope the people of India get to decide and not some politicians.
Overall, I don’t want to exaggerate the issue but I am also going to be truthful regarding women going about alone in some parts of India. Frankly, though I have not been to Pakistan, my understanding is the situation is much worse there than India, probably due to the Muslim attitudes regarding women. In the US, there are areas I would not advise a woman to go about or travel alone. I have seen a rise in the crude mental state of society in general, I could give an example of something that I observed in open public that outraged me just last night but I won’t go into the details and bore everyone.
In India, frankly, there are areas I would not advise women to travel alone. The fact of the matter is, you might be assaulted. Also, I do not think such assaults have much to do about economic circumstances or poverty and crime or any of the popular notions which may have some legitimacy but I think have nothing to do with many if not most of such assaults.
I think it has to do with the decrepit nature of mass media, which is sending all the wrong cultural cues that trigger slumdogs and stupid people who are debased by such mass media that degrades the value of good character, makes fun of those who practice self-control as “not cool”, images of drinking and dancing with bad women, constant sex themes, violence in the media and in games, images used to sell products including images which turn even children and the elderly into objects of unnatural automatons (I don’t even like those commercials that show little babies who are talking with adult voices about things such as luxury cars and other idiocy, they actually degrade the very innocence of children) – I can rant on and on, and I apologize for doing so, but I am disgusted with what I am seeing.
So they send all the wrong cues to such minds which have no bases for culture, and culture is being lost. It is being replaced with “rap” and “hip hop” and other disgusting themes of violence and, frankly, barbarianism. It is not just these examples of music, there are all sorts of examples and I do not know exactly what should be done other than I hope great minds, yogis and savants can change things around.
Seedy cinemas. I think, even in the example of these rapes, these goons and barbarians came from a cinema.
I would also be very frank, and warn foreign women that they may become an object of attack if travelling alone due to many of these “miscues” which project them as of loose morals. Whether it has some legitimacy or not does not excuse the attacks, you may be dressed in “yogi” clothes, sari, salwar kameez, doesn’t matter. Be careful!
Here are some ideas to members who are women travelling in India. Granted, it is only pertinent to some areas, and not representative of all of India. These are generalities. But keep in mind, the culture of mass media that is degrading society is also degrading India, too.
I would not advise a woman travelling alone to ever drink or smoke in public. I know members of the forum would not do so, but who knows?
Restrooms might be not easily available. Forget about makeup kit, popping it open and doing your face in public. Time your bladder needs appropriately. If you need to pass water often, then don’t drink a lot of liquids just before getting on that taxi or bus for a 6 hour trip to a far away temple.
Do not be friendly or over friendly. Be polite - that is not the same as being “friendly”. Yes, be polite – but do not think you should be “Miss Friendly”, it might be misunderstood. Only be friendly with other women, I would recommend with older women. Also ask the older women about what is the safe way to do something. They might also know the latest news, or even issues or crimes.
Om Namah Sivaya
DevakÄma
Namasté,
And while women are controlling their hydration needs, holding tight against passing stools and urine, repressing sexual desires lest they be deemed "bad women" (while their male partners are exonerated from this reputation), avoiding drinking and smoking, staying inside after sunset, dressing and applying makeup per general approval, and being otherwise reminded that they are potential victims and must speak and act accordingly, so that a perceived fall into "loose morals" doesn't open them up to sexual assault and murder -
What should men be doing to not assault them? How can society make that happen, so that women who would like to ride on buses and do some shopping and spend time breathing fresh air outdoors, are not penalized for being mature adult women in the presence of men?
I know that people who give safety advice are trying to stop more crimes from happening; ShivaFan, your many messages here have shown a very loving heart and the best of intentions in the posts you write. But the underlying message, each time a crime like this happens and women are reminded how to protect themselves, is, "Look, you are viewed as prey and are very likely to be assaulted. You need to always keep that in mind, and act accordingly." This attitude of that's-just-how-things-are, better-adapt-to-it, is part of the problem, in my opinion. A quarantine of the victims is a temporary measure against disease, but a better solution is to actively strive for treatment or even cure.
"What was, what is, what will be: I am That." -from BÄá¹£kalamantra Upaniá¹£ad
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