The Shame Capital.....

[Omkara]

Have you read Sri Aurobindo's 'Secret of the Vedas' or 'Hymns To The Mystic Fire' ? He clearly disagrees with Swami Dayananda's views.

Any respectable Sanskrit scholar will tell you that Arya Samaj translations of the Vedas used by Agniveer are nonsensical.

[dogra]

No have note read Sri aurobindo , which points did he disagree?
Your assertion of arya samaj is your opinion
But facts remain why are there female forms of god as strenghth e.g Durga mata Kali ma , what does this clearly state?
It's staring us in the face , simple really
Condemn any cultural inequalities .

[philosoraptor]

Well this is sidetracking and avoidance of basics that men and women are parts of god , hence enshrinement of gender equality and Ganesha shows we should pay regard to animals and treat with respect.
It's staring us in the face
We say jai mataji not jai pappaji
Again Griffith translation may not be correct
Swami dayanand has spoken as well as well aurobindo
Agniveer has and is translating Vedas
Rather rely on learned people than Griffith who was new to sanskrit
Reconciliation to female forms of god also required

Pranams dogra,

First of all, please understand that agniveer.com is a Revisionist website. They make many claims that have no basis in fact, largely motivated by their own ideological beliefs and non-Hindu influences.

Second, try to understand that the references you quoted have nothing at all to do with women being "equal" to men. There is no such standard in Hinduism, or in fact, in any ancient culture. Although in Hinduism, the differences is that social hierarchy is temporary based on the body, which in turn is based on guna and karma. Hinduism to the best of my knowledge is one of the few ancient cultures in which spiritual equality is acknowledged in spite of material inequality.

Third, all chetanas and achetanas are technically "part of God" according to this world view, but we don't say that all achetanas are therefore equal. Your arguments are not intellectually sound. Would you argue that animals are equal to humans? Would you argue that a wooden desk is equal to a living entity?

[Omkara]

Yajur Veda 16.44 : "There should be a women army. Let the women be encouraged to participate in war."

I request you not to blaspheme the Shatarudriya like this.

[Omkara]

No have note read Sri aurobindo , which points did he disagree?

Then you have no right to make uninformed statements about his opinion.

[dogra]

Philosopher
1) common sense has to be applied, hence female and make firms of god tell us clear gender equality enshrined in Hinduism

2) using wooden desk is bad example and lack of common sense gives no basis
3) scriptures are not always literal we have to think around as they can be cryptic, hence need to look at fundamentals
4) agniveer and arya samaj in your opinion are revisionist , I disagree they reconcile back to basics and makes sense and not cultural nonsense
5) spiritual equalify reconciles to gender equality , again use other point of female and male forms of god

[dogra]

I request you not to blaspheme the Shatarudriya like this.

Oh dear u think women cannot be part of army , then who is Durga mata,
I request u to not insult our female forms of god , women can be strong and carry out any function in society this is what scriptures tell us

[dogra]

Then you have no right to make uninformed statements about his opinion.

You have avoided the question, can u answer or not

[Twilightdance]

Philosopher
1) common sense has to be applied, hence female and make firms of god tell us clear gender equality enshrined in Hinduism

2) using wooden desk is bad example and lack of common sense gives no basis
3) scriptures are not always literal we have to think around as they can be cryptic, hence need to look at fundamentals
4) agniveer and arya samaj in your opinion are revisionist , I disagree they reconcile back to basics and makes sense and not cultural nonsense
5) spiritual equalify reconciles to gender equality , again use other point of female and male forms of god

If one uses common sense one cannot stick to religion at the same time, so it is not a fair expectation.

Besides, phil is right, shruti and smriti doesnt give same status to men and women. Shruti may be amgious or silent on the issue, but smriti is absolutely clear in giving a differnt social status to women and shudras.

He is wrong in saying all ancient societies are like that or even all of hinduism shares same patriarchal thinking of the vedic civilization. Contradiction in current hinduism is because is because it is not based on a common set of scriptures or beliefs. Reason why we say "jai mata di" has nothing to with the vedic civilization. Durga mata may be the highest divinity, but it is incorrect to try to find her in rudra adhyaya.

[charitra]

The potential dangers awaiting women was envisioned by our sages ages ago. They were seriously prophylactic to nurture an entire sampradaya with a woman at the very top of the sect. Durga or Shakti is worshipped by more men than women and even run the puja rituals by the men themselves. Women were downsized by all cultures and religions uniformly. Hinduism has to take some blame as well; thanks to Manu the efforts of hindus will always be undervalued so long as we keep Manu Smriti in the context. Manu had undercut women and many men alike by elevating a small ‘section of men with certain birth qualities’ to a dizzying, almost, divine status. Orthodox men had a liking for Manu a lot for that all along. But then to be fair, Manu got wiser later and tried to correct himself with some minimalist effort: “Where women are honored, there the Gods arepleased. But where they are not honored, no sacred rite yields rewards.” Manu Smriti 3.56. There is no such action a man can do but a woman cant, however on the other hand men cant make babies like women do . Do we have a case here to assert superiority of women then, is it an yes? On an aside, Agniveers are doing a stellar job taking care of hindu interests, they are basically karmayogis in modern kurukshetra thats on going in contemporary hindu lands IMO. Namaste.