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Thread: Is Brahman a Person?

  1. #31

    Re: Is Brahman a Person?

    Quote Originally Posted by realdemigod View Post

    I don't see why a formless being can't think/act/feel. Can you be little more specific on the contrast you are talking about?
    That may be your view, but the point remains that the shruti describes Brahman as having form. Statements like "His arms and legs are everywhere" (svetAshvatara upaniShad), "please remove the golden disc that obscures your face" (IshopaniShad), and so on clearly indicate this.

    If you wish to postulate a truly formless being who thinks and feels, that is certainly your prerogative. But that is not the view of the shruti. His formlessness is only in sense of having no rUpa (i.e. one made of material elements).
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  2. #32

    Re: Is Brahman a Person?

    Quote Originally Posted by charitra View Post
    So therefore the above firm assertion automatically confirms that FORM is a sampradaya centric (bhakta/devotee’s) attribute of Brahman, no?
    Say if one substitutes shiva (and shaivism) with Vishnu (vaishnavism), Durga (shaktasm) etc. one may tread the chosen sampradaya to achieve ways to attain moksha.
    In other words, by extension, the argument holds that the form is a mandatory first step of reaching one and only nirakara Brahman (The God), no? Or am I over reading the concept? That in order to strictly adopt a certain sampradaya for sadhana (meditation āmoksha) purposes a sadhaka will have to accept a murthi (deity), right? That sounds a reasonable basis for murthi worship.
    Namaste.
    No, you completely misunderstood. I never claimed that any deity could be taken as the supreme brahman of the upaniShads. I only pointed out that a Shaivite following the shruti would have to equate Shiva to Brahman, not as someone "existing separate from a formless Brahman." Vishnu, Shiva, Durga, etc are all treated as different beings in every major scripture I have seen, bar none. If you claim that one of these is the Brahman, then it follows that the others are not. Then you need only be convinced (and convince me) that the deity's attributes match those of the attributes of Brahman as described in the shruti.

    Which deity is the Brahman really isn't the point of this thread. The point of this thread is to get us away from the new-age idea that Brahman is a formless entity without attributes as per modern versions of Advaita.
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  3. #33

    Re: Is Brahman a Person?

    Quote Originally Posted by realdemigod View Post

    Then who gives attributes to this advaitic brahman you are talking about?
    No one "gives" attributes to Brahman. That is the point. It is Brahman's intrinsic nature to have attributes.
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  4. #34

    Re: Is Brahman a Person?

    Confusion abounds here.

    Philosopraptor speaks from a Vaishnava - specifically, Sri-Vaishnava perspective. The Advaita take on this matter is quite different and it should not be assumed that they are all in agreement on this subject. For instance, the concept of Nirguna/Saguna is absent in Vaishnava Vedanta philosophies.
    http://lokayata.info
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  5. #35
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    Re: Is Brahman a Person?

    Quote Originally Posted by philosoraptor View Post
    Pranams.

    God is not a thinking, feeling, personal being simply because we project Him as such. He is a thinking, feeling, personal being because that is what He is, and that is what the shruti says about Him.
    So you think universal potentiality can be summed to a manifestation of a personality?

    I mean, we can think in reverse, universal potentiality manifests personalities, that's an experiential fact. So personality is an aspect of it, but not its whole.

  6. #36
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    Re: Is Brahman a Person?

    Quote Originally Posted by philosoraptor View Post
    No one "gives" attributes to Brahman. That is the point. It is Brahman's intrinsic nature to have attributes.
    That's exactly my point. Now I hope you answered yourself. This Being which is Brahman need not be a person more importantly a male.
    āĨ ā¤Žā¤šāĨ‡ā¤ļāĨā¤ĩā¤°ā¤žā¤¯ ā¤¨ā¤Žā¤ƒ

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  7. #37

    Re: Is Brahman a Person?

    Quote Originally Posted by realdemigod View Post
    That's exactly my point. Now I hope you answered yourself. This Being which is Brahman need not be a person more importantly a male.
    What He "needs" to be is not the point. What He is, as per the definitions of shruti, is the point. Please refer to the first posting of this thread. thanks - PR
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  8. #38

    Re: Is Brahman a Person?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pietro Impagliazzo View Post
    So you think universal potentiality can be summed to a manifestation of a personality?

    I mean, we can think in reverse, universal potentiality manifests personalities, that's an experiential fact. So personality is an aspect of it, but not its whole.
    From what I can gather, you are asking if the infinite being who has all the attributes of an infinite, all-knowing, all-pervading, all-powerful entity have personality, person-hood, person-ness, etc. The answer is yes, as per the shruti. He can have form and personality and that is every bit as much of His nature as His omniscience, etc.
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  9. #39
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    Re: Is Brahman a Person?

    Quote Originally Posted by philosoraptor View Post
    From what sources are you deriving your knowledge of "savikalpa and nirvikalpa samadhi?" If you are talking about sources other than shruti, then you should question where those sources got their information.
    Namaste.

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    Aum Namah Shivaya

  10. #40
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    Re: Is Brahman a Person?

    Quote Originally Posted by shiv.somashekhar View Post
    Philosopraptor speaks from a Vaishnava - specifically, Sri-Vaishnava perspective. The Advaita take on this matter is quite different and it should not be assumed that they are all in agreement on this subject. For instance, the concept of Nirguna/Saguna is absent in Vaishnava Vedanta philosophies.
    Namaste. I see.

    I am not familiar with Vaishnava philosophies, only Shaiva ones. I didn't know they had a different idea about this...now I do.

    Therefore, I shall do as I have always done...let Vaishnavas talk about 'Vishnu things' and I shall go back to the Shaiva Forum and talk about 'Shiva things'.

    It seems to be the only area of HDF that people don't have a problem with me being on anyway.

    Aum Namah Shivaya

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