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Thread: Is Brahman a Person?

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    Is Brahman a Person?

    Pranams,

    After opening the discussion on the nature of Brahman, as an entity having attributes versus a formless entity, I would now like to turn the discussion towards answering the question, "Is Brahman a person?" Not a "person" in the sense of people we see around us, who have limited senses, can be mislead, and possess temporary bodies made up of blood and flesh which are subject to the ravages of time. Rather, a "person" in a more general sense. For example, does Brahman have consciousness? Is Brahman self-aware? Does Brahman interact with other conscious entities? Does Brahman possess attributes of a personal nature which predispose towards meaningful interactions?

    This is not a trivial question. The very nature of the Absolute Truth profoundly colors one's world view, as the history of religion shows. In Hinduism, differing views on God can probably be divided based on this one's observations into two basic categories - the impersonal and the personal, and those views lead to very different understandings of liberation and the saadhana needed to achieve it. As before, we will discuss what the shrutis have to say about this, since these are the authority for traditional Hindus. Again, I will limit myself primarily to shAstric pramANas that are accepted by all major schools. Also, I am working under the generally accepted premise that the shrutis speak with one voice, in spite of apparent contradictions usually reflecting different meditations on the same Truth, and so for the sake of brevity I will not exhaustively quote every single pramANa that can conceivably support every single point. Readers are recommended to themselves consult the primary sources.

    The first question is whether Brahman is conscious. On this note, the aitareya upaniShad clearly describes Him not merely as the source of all things, but as a cognitive being who creates with purpose:

    I-i-1: In the beginning this was but the absolute Self alone. There was nothing else whatsoever that winked. He thought, "Let Me create the worlds."

    I-i-2: He created these world, viz. ambhas, marici, mara, apah. That which is beyond heaven is ambhas. Heaven is its support. The sky is marici. The earth is mara. The worlds that are below are the apah.

    I-i-3: He thought, "These then are the worlds. Let Me create the protectors of the worlds." Having gathered up a (lump of the) human form from the water itself, He gave shape to it.

    I-i-4: He deliberated with regard to Him (i.e. Virat of the human form). As He (i.e. Virat) was being deliberated on, His (i.e. Virat'') mouth parted, just as an egg does. From the mouth emerged speech; from speech came Fire. The nostrils parted; from the nostrils came out the sense of smell; from the sense of smell came Vayu (Air). The two eyes parted; from the eyes emerged the sense of sight; from the sense of sight came the Sun. The two ears parted; from the ears came the sense of hearing; from the sense of hearing came the Directions. The skin emerged; from the skin came out hair (i.e. the sense of touch associated with hair); from the sense of touch came the Herbs and Trees. The heart took shape; from the heart issued the internal organ (mind); from the internal organ came the Moon. The navel parted; from the navel came out the organ of ejection; from the organ of ejection issued Death. The seat of the procreative organ parted; from that came the procreative organ; from the procreative organ came out Water.
    Note here two points: Brahman is not an inert, unconscious entity, but a conscious being with the capacity to think and act in meaningful (as opposed to mechanistic) ways. Brahman's act of creating the universe and its controllers is purposeful, for He not only creates the world, but also their controllers, such as the deities presiding over the sun, the senses, the directions, etc as well as the constituent principles of this world (skin, senses, heart, mortality, sexuality/procreation and so on).

    It is slightly tangential, but worth noting here, that "creation" in the VedAntic sense is not at all the same as "creation" in the Judeo-Christian sense. In the former, creation is cyclical, and the living entities who populate the creation, as well as the matter from which the world takes form, are eternal entities. Their "non-existence" is only from the standpoint of the world-to-be-created, and their "existence," though eternal, is often qualified by their manifest nature (in contrast to their previously unmanifest nature). "Creation" in the Vedaantic paradigm therefore has the sense of "projecting" forth those eternal entities previously absorbed (and thus unmanifest) within Brahman. Another point to consider is that the creation is itself full of attributes, yet it has its source in Brahman. Just as we expect warm sun-rays to come from a body that has heat, we must similarly expect a creation that has qualities to come from an entity that also has qualities. In the created world, there are principles of eyes, ears, skin, illumination, and so on, and so one might expect these to exist in Brahman. Indeed, in the bhrigu valli of the taittirIya upaniShad, we see that varuNa advises his son who wants to know about brahman to meditate on the created principles first as an aid to understanding brahman:

    III-i-1: Bhrigu, the well-known son of Varuna, approached his father Varuna with the (formal) request, "O, revered sir, teach me Brahman". To him he (Varuna) said this: "Food, vital force, eye, ear, mind, speech - (these are the aids to knowledge of Brahman)". To him he (Varuna) said: "Crave to know that from which all these beings take birth, that by which they live after being born, that towards which they move and into which they merge. That is Brahman". He practiced concentration.
    This culminates in the instruction that one should meditate on the essential attributes of everything as Brahman. Note that this is very similar to the meditation in the bhagavad-gItA 10th chapter, in which Sri Krishna instructs Arjuna to see Him as Meru among mountains, intelligence among women, gambling among cheats, Shiva among Rudras, etc:

    III-x-3-4: Brahman is to be worshiped as fame in beasts; as light in the stars; as procreation, immortality, and joy in the generative organ; as everything in space....
    The implication is not merely that brahman is the support of these entities. Varuna offers them as objects of meditation because their distinguishing attributes are present in Brahman in fuller measure. It is similar to the manner in which the Hindu twice-born males meditate on the sun as Brahman, even though the sun is an infinitesmally small portion of the creation coming from Brahman. The sun's illuminating and warming attributes are also essential attributes of Brahman. Thus, if light, bliss, fame, etc exist in the creation, then they must exist in Brahman. Yet there is also death and transformation in the created world, so can these things also exist in Brahman?

    The answer which is given to us in the Upanishads is that He has transcendental qualities, but He is not afflicted by qualities born of matter. The svetAshvatara upaniShad has a number of statements that are significant in this regard:

    II-15: When the Yogin realizes the truth of Brahman, through the perception of the truth of Atman in this body as a self-luminous entity, then, knowing the Divinity as unborn, eternal and free from all the modifications of Prakriti, he is freed from all sins.

    III-8: I have realized this Great Being who shines effulgent like the sun beyond all darkness. One passes beyond death only on realizing Him. There is no other way of escape from the circle of births and deaths.

    III-15: That which is, that which was, and that which is yet to be - all this is nothing but this Infinite Being. Though He grows beyond His own nature into the form of the objective universe, He still remains the lord of immortality.

    IV-9: The Lord of Maya projects the Vedas, sacrifices, spiritual practices, past and future, religious observances, all that the Vedas declare, and the whole world including ourselves. The other, again, is bound by Maya in this.

    IV-10: Know then that Nature is Maya, and that the great God is the Lord of Maya. The whole world is filled with beings who form His parts.
    Note how the upaniShad recognizes and addresses the logical doubt. If Brahman creates the world out of Himself, then does not Brahman have the same faults that are in the world? To this doubt, the svetAshvatara upaniShad confirms that He is indeed the being who is beyond tamas, that He is the Lord of Maya (and thus, logically, Maya is controlled by Him and *not* vice-versa), and that He remains the "Lord of Immortality" even in spite of creating this mortal world out of Himself. This may be contradictory to our expectations because we observe that embodied beings are limited by virtue of their embodiment, but it must be remembered that their embodiment is due to prakRiti, which does not affect Brahman. Hence, the shruti is clear that He has attributes, but not exactly the attributes of the mortal world, being that He is the Lord of the created world and beyond the guNas (sattva, rAjas, tamas) which constitute it. Thus, He has eyes, but they are not like our eyes made of matter. He has hands, but they are not like our limited hands made of matter, and so on. The upaniShad itself confirms this:

    III-14: That Infinite Being has a thousand heads, a thousand eyes and a thousand feet enveloping the whole universe on all sides.
    ... and then goes on to substantiate the spiritual nature of those heads/eyes/feet:

    III-19: Without hands and feet He goes fast and grasps; without eyes He sees; without ears He hears. He knows whatever is to be known, yet there is none who knows Him. They say He is the foremost, the great Infinite Being.
    ... and further states that by knowing Him in this spiritual form, one gains liberation:

    III-13: Assuming a form of the size of a thumb, by virtue of intellect, emotion, imagination and will, the Infinite Being dwells in the hearts of creatures as their inner self. Those who realize this become immortal.
    Finally, the puruSha-sukta says:

    vEdAhamaEtam puruSHam mahAntam |
    AdityavarNam tamasaH parastAt |
    tamEvam vidvAnamReta iha bhavati |
    nAnyaH panthA vidya tEyanAya ||20||

    I have realized the supreme pu-ru-SHa, brilliant as the Solar hue and beyond the veil of darkness (mA-ya). Knowing him thus, one will be liberated in this very life. There is no other way (for liberation) indeed.
    Hence, the Brahman of the Upanishads is not a formless, inert entity, but a Supreme Person endowed with all spiritual attributes, who creates this world out of Himself, yet remains ever transcendental to it. When He is described as "formless" or "without attributes," it is to emphasize the non-material nature of His actual form. This Supreme Person has countless heads, eyes, and feet, He is the size of the thumb residing in one's heart, and is the same person within the sun (that is to say, the indwelling controller of the sUrya-deva) and indeed the indwelling controller of all created, dependent entities. There is no other way to liberation but the realization of this Supreme Person!

    Now how is this realization acquired? This brings us to our final question, which is in regards to Brahman's approachability. Do we ask Brahman for things? Or is He merely a passive observer?

    The IshopaniShad gives the following prayer in which the yogi is directly pleading to Brahman for the revelation of His transcendental form:

    15. The face of the Truth (ie., Purusha in the solar orb) is veiled by a bright vessel. Mayst thou unveil it, O Sun, so as to be perceived by me whose dharma is truth.

    16. O nourisher, pilgrim of the solitude, controller, absorber (of all rasas), offspring of Prajapati, cast away thy rays, gather them up and give up thy radiating brilliance. That form of thine, most graceful, I may behold. He, the Purusha (in the solar orb), I am.
    And the kaTha upaniShad explains that one cannot obtain this Atman by any other means except by the grace of the Atman:

    1-II-23. The Self cannot be attained by the study of the Vedas, not by intelligence nor by much hearing. Only by him who seeks to know the Self can It be attained. To him the Self reveals Its own nature.
    ...as does the mundaka upaniShad:

    III-ii-3: This Self is not attained through study, nor through the intellect, nor through much hearing. The very Self which this one (i.e. the aspirant) seeks is attainable through that fact of seeking; this Self of his reveals Its own nature.
    Note that these are both very similar to the verse in the gItA in which Sri Krishna states that it is He who gives the understanding by which the yogi comes to Him:

    teṣām evānukampārtham aham ajñāna-jaṁ tamaḥ |
    nāśayāmy ātma-bhāva-stho jñāna-dīpena bhāsvatā || gItA 10.11 ||

    To show them special mercy, I, dwelling in their hearts, destroy with the shining lamp of knowledge the darkness born of ignorance.
    So in conclusion, our Brahman is not just a Supreme Person with auspicious, transcendental qualities, but a majestic figure who is prayed to, pleaded to, and ultimately reveals His grace on the yogi whom He chooses - a far cry from the conception of an inert, inactive, and impersonal entity articulated by some modern schools of Hinduism.
    Last edited by philosoraptor; 26 December 2012 at 10:17 AM.
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

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    Re: Is Brahman a Person?

    We can understand that Brahman is really a person also by considering with logic our-selves and the following verse:
    The living entities in this conditioned world are My eternal fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life, they are struggling very hard with the six senses, which include the mind.(Bhagavad-Gita 15.7)

    Each of us is:
    -a fragmental part and parcel of Brahma
    -a person

    If each of us is a person and has his his personal individuality,how could our source(the Brahman) not be a individual person?

    So by using logic we can understand that the Brahman is none other than God,the Supreme Person.

    To such Supreme Person I dedicate the following mantra taken from the very first verse of Srimad Bhagavata Purana: Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya!

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    Re: Is Brahman a Person?

    Excellent post!
    namastE astu bhagavan vishveshvarAya mahAdevAya tryaMbakAya|
    tripurAntakAya trikAgnikAlAya kAlAgnirudrAya nIlakaNThAya mRtyuJNjayAya sarveshvarAya sadAshivAya shrIman mAhAdevAya ||

    Om shrImAtrE namah

    sarvam shrI umA-mahEshwara parabrahmArpaNamastu


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    Re: Is Brahman a Person?

    No one knows what Brahman is and hence any answer to it is just mere speculation. We can speak up to Hiranyagarbha and anything beyond him is ineffable.

    As the 15th verse of the Isha Upanishad says "Unveil O Pushan and let me see the truth". Pushan is an anthropomorphic God and he exists and of course he is a person. Gods do exist.

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    Re: Is Brahman a Person?

    I don't think Brahman is a person but surely a being..a self aware intelligent being. It's very confusing that in all the Upanishads the authors use 'He' making Brahman as a male person but I believe it's mainly due to the word 'Purush' which means male/self/cosmic male in Sanskrit.

    You can find the reference for it in Gita when Lord Krsna extols Brahman in third person as 'Parama Purusha' - the Supreme Being / Perfected Cosmic Being.

    Only a liberated soul can answer this question for once and all.. hope someone is around
    ॠमहेशà¥à¤µà¤°à¤¾à¤¯ नमः

    || Om Namo Bhagavate Rudraya ||

    Hara Hara Mahadeva Shambo Shankara

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    Re: Is Brahman a Person?

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by realdemigod View Post
    I don't think Brahman is a person but surely a being..a self aware intelligent being.
    I look at it slightly differently. You write 'I don't think Brahman is a person but surely a being' . I would write it like this:

    I don't think Brahman is a person, but surely Being. By saying 'Being' we leave nothing out. Before anything can exist it must first 'be' . Now what can exist ? An idea, a thought, awareness, consciousness, any formation, any level of existence be it human, animal or divine, must first Be. It is the ultimate essence (sāraḥ) of any and every thing or level of existence.

    Let's offer an example. Take an apple. It must have space (ākāśa) to exist in before we can even consider it an object. The apple cannot exist without a place for it to exist in. This is why within the upaniṣad-s brahman is associated/aligned with ākāśa. It gives one the perfect paradigm to grasp the notion of a tattva that is so fundamental, that a person gets a feel for this brahman.
    Like that, even more subtle then ākāśa is this Being. Being provides the essence for every thing, including ākāśa.

    iti śivaṁ
    Last edited by yajvan; 28 March 2013 at 05:20 PM.
    यतसà¥à¤¤à¥à¤µà¤‚ शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṠśivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Is Brahman a Person?



    Dear savithru,

    Quote Originally Posted by savithru View Post
    No one knows what Brahman is and hence any answer to it is just mere speculation.
    True.

    The word Brahman conceptualizes as all-encompassing Absolute reality which, unless it is realized in one’s own life, remains conceptual and therefore questionable.

    -----

    Deeper understanding of the issue(Our POV)

    Classical philosopher like Sankara argues for the case of existence of Brahman in his commentary (the last paragraph of the commentary on the first sutra) to the Brahmasutras, he says:

    Brahman which is all knowing and endowed with all powers, whose essential nature is eternal purity, intelligence and freedom, exists.

    Yet, he further argued for the existence of Brahman as the one-Self with following words:

    Moreover the existence of Brahman is known on the ground of its being the self of everyone.

    In addition, Sankara exhibits a single clearly defined meaning:आत्माचब्रह्म

    -----

    This approach is indicated in the Brihadaaranyaka Upanishad too(IV-5-6), where the illustrious Rishi Yajnavalkya, explaining it to his wife Matreyi:

    The self verily is to be visualized, to be heard of, to be reflected on, and to be meditated upon.

    Again, this notion is not unknown to the west too, Descartes comes closer to what is proposed here. Cogito ergo sum "I think, therefore I am"

    -----
    Every individual experiences one’s own self-existence and whilst the existence of an all-encompassing Absolute may be questioned, one’s own self existence cannot be denied.

    As a result, searching for the real nature and content of one’s self-evident existence and realizing it as Atman is also the realization of Absolute Reality, Called Brahman.

    ayam ātmā brahma (Mandukya:2) Love
    ॐ इदम् न मम
    be just l we happy

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    Re: Is Brahman a Person?

    Quote Originally Posted by savithru View Post
    No one knows what Brahman is and hence any answer to it is just mere speculation. We can speak up to Hiranyagarbha and anything beyond him is ineffable..
    That's how 'neti, neti' became the perfect upanishadic description of Brahman. Namaste.

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    Re: Is Brahman a Person?

    hariḥ o
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by savithru View Post
    No one knows what Brahman is
    If what you say is so, we find ourselves in a pickle on how to rationalize this knowledge found in the śvetāśvatara¹ upaniṣad ...

    vedāham etaṃ puruṣaṃ mahāntam ādityavarṇaṃ tamasaḥ parastāt |
    tam eva viditvāti mṛtyum eti nānyaḥ panthā vidyate 'yanāya || 3.8

    This ṛṣi says ,
    I (āham) know (veda) this great ( mahāntam ) Supreme Being (puruṣaṃ)...¹


    iti śivaṁ

    words
    • śvetāśvatara is the seer, the ṛṣi of this śloka
      • śveta = white , dressed , in white , bright ; it is also a white horse
      • āśvatara = āśva = belonging to a horse
      • aśvatara = a mule ; aśva = to behave like a horse + tara = surpassing , conquering
      • asva = having no property
    The wisdom here is a white mule is a prized possession; so we can view it two ways, it is this ṛṣi that owns this prized possession - purity (śveta) and/or he is this prized possession based upon his knowledge.
    • the remainder of the śloka says , in general:
      who shines effulgent like the sun (ādityavarṇaṃ)
      beyond the darkness; One passes beyond death
      (mṛtyum) only by knowing Him; There is no other way.
    Last edited by yajvan; 30 March 2013 at 06:47 PM.
    यतसà¥à¤¤à¥à¤µà¤‚ शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṠśivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Is Brahman a Person?

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hariḥ o
    ~~~~~~

    namasté



    vedāham etaṃ puruṣaṃ mahāntam ādityavarṇaṃ tamasaḥ parastāt /
    tam eva viditvāti mṛtyum eti nānyaḥ panthā vidyate 'yanāya // 3.8

    This ṛṣi says ,
    I (āham) know (veda) this great ( mahāntam ) Supreme Being (puruṣaṃ)...¹


    iti śivaṁ
    Dear Yajvan,

    As an alternative to claim any breadth of subject expertise, we would like to raise a minor doubt for our own understanding.

    The verse sounds like an advice given from the standpoint of the Sage.

    "I know this great Supreme Being"

    There is another verse in the same chapter that sounds more like an advice given to a seeker.

    "He knows whatever is to be known, yet there is no one knows Him. They say he is the foremost being." Verse: 19

    Also, we notice a small shift in the methodological analysis (from cosmological to that of psychological), that is from verse: 18.

    18: It is who resided in the body, the city of nine gates etc..

    20: Atman is concealed in the heart of the creature etc..

    Could you kindly explain us the idea behind this methodological transition applied by the Sage śvetāśvatara. Love
    ॐ इदम् न मम
    be just l we happy

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