paths to enlightenment

[billcu]

Sri Krishna said there was two ways to enlightenment. Through devotion and empirical philosophical knowledge. Does anyone have an opinion about this? I've heard devotion is most important if either of the 2 are.

[AmIHindu]

Deleted

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namast�

Namaste Bill
Actually there are four ways for Self Realization.
1 Bhakti Yoga - Devotional path
2 jnan Yoga - Philosophical path
3 Pranayam - Controlling Breathing, prana.
3 Karma Yoga - doing work without expectation

I have another view on this matter...
Kṛṣṇa-jī informs us, yogasthaḥ kuru karmānī - established (or steadfast) in yoga ( union) perform actions (karma). This is the perfection of yoga in action , when one is a realized being. Then this karma yoga is perfectly practiced.

I am of the firm belief that trying to do anything without expectation (before one realizes the Self) is folly. So, what does one do to practice karma yoga then before mokṣada occurs? It is the practice of kriya yoga. And where findout how to do this ? It is the subject matter of pata�jali�s yogadarśana (the yoga sūtra-s of pata�jali) or the yogacūḍāmaṇi upaniṣad to name just 2.


You see, before the dawn of one's realization the human condition is challanged with blemishes�. Just these alone does not allow one (easily) to perform actions with no expectations of an outcome. One is stuck working within the framework of the human condtion. Hence various methods need to be employed to get outside of these conditions (remove the thorn with a thorn concept).

So, I ask the reader - please go one day without expecations. Lets see if this is possible. If it is done, then go two or three days then let us know what has changed in your life:
- I expect to be paid
- I expect the bus to come and pick me up
- I expect my spouse to be home this evening
- I expect my bank to hold my money and honor the ageement of payment.
- I expect that the sun will rise tomorrow
- I expect my heart to continue to pump
- I expect that my memory will fetch the right equation for this math problem
- etc. etc.
These expectations are so subtle at times, it is taken for another thing, and not an expectation (apekṣitā).

iti śivaṁ

words
ṣaḍ-doṣa the 6 blemishes of the human condition:

• kāma - longing, some say excessive desire
• krodha - anger , wrath , passion ( one of the thirteen daughters of dakṣa )
• lobha - covetousness or greed; the desire to aquire ( a son of dambha and māyā)
• moha - delusion; to fall into error ; darkness or delusion of mind
• mada - this has a few definitions:
  it is pride and errogance when we spell it as madā ;
  it is wantonness or lust when we spell it as mada
  it is any exhilarating or intoxicating drink , spirituous liquor , wine
  Yet too this word can also mean 'rapture' , and a beautiful object
• mātsarya - jealousy, envy

[orlando]

Namaste AmIHindu

Actually there are four ways for Self Realization.
1 Bhakti Yoga - Devotional path
2 jnan Yoga - Philosophical path
3 Pranayam - Controlling Breathing, prana.
3 Karma Yoga - doing work without expectation

Generally I read Raja-yoga in similar post

I am surpresed to see that you quote only one of the eight limbs of Raja-yoga

Pranama,
Orlando.

[AmIHindu]

Deleted.

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namast�

It is easy for a Yogi to do meditation in jungle, away from all the objects of pleasure but the Braves are those who remained unmoved in front of objects of pleasure.

Being away from the city or from windows of things does not put one away from thoughts. They too are objects. Of what use is a cave if one is thinking of cookies and cars within the cave ?

One must come to the conclusion (sooner or later) it is not the objects that bind us, it is much more subtler then that. It is one's Self ~seemingly bound~ to the senses, to objects that makes one attached.

śeṣa pata�jali, the author of the yoga-sūtras, is quite clear on this matter; he says:
draṣṭṛdṛśyayoḥ saṁyogo heyahetuḥ||17

This says,
the the union of the 'Seer' (draṣṭṛ) with the 'seen' or objects (dṛśyayoḥ) is the cause (hetuḥ) of that which is to be abandoned (heya).

I leave this conversation to rest, as an additional pursuit gets us into a deeper subject matter that may only distract from the overall conversation at hand.

iti śivaṁ

[AmIHindu]

Deleted.

[Amrut]

Namaste Billcu,

Gita talks about Karma (chapter 1-6), Bhakti (7-12) and Jnana (13-18). Yog followers interpret Gita in their own way (nothing wrong in it).

Karma is for chitta Shuddhi (inner purification). Doing work without expecting it's fruits, surrendering work and actions to God and accepting fruits as prasad of God increase sattva guna.

Sattva Guna has divine qualities like, renunciation, love (unconditional love and love for God), peace, compassion, surrender, faith, receptivity, etc

These qualities are needed for spiritual progress.

Bhakti and Jnana are two other paths. Bhakti is easier of the two, as one can progress by enjoying wordly objects and worshipping God. God changes a person from within and as time passes, a bhakta looses interest in society and only wants to have divine vision of God.

Jnana on the other hand requires moksha as the only goal. 5 senses are withdrawn back from their objects and nothing is given importance. It requires renunciation from the beginning. So both vairagya and Vivek are required.

Vivek Chudamani (choodamani) says that there are 4 sadhanas (tools or qualities necessary to practice advaita vedanta)

Advaita is not for everybody. Emotional characters are generally not suited to practice advaita. Ramana Maharshi in Ramana Gita [3] says that ones who have purified their mind through sadhana (meditation) or by Sattvik Karma in past lives can practice advaita Vedanta. He further says that one who does not give much importance to his body and senses and has no interest in the worldly affairs instead of being surrounded by worldly issues are considered as eligible for Self Enquiry [3].



Shastras says of fours sadhans (qualities) are necessary (Sadhan chatusta Varnana)[4,5,6]

1. Vivek - discrimination between Real and unreal. i.e. only Atman, Brahman is real, everything else is unreal

2. Vairagya - dispassion in society (worldly matters)

3. Shatsampatti (6 values)

a. Sham – Control over mind

b. Dam – Control over 5 senses

c. Uprati – Saturation point (control over mins and saturation brings the saturation of slinging or attachment in any worldly attachment)

d. Titiskha – To stay neutral in favourable and unfavourable circumstances

e. Shraddha – Faith in Yourself (I am doing nothing wrong in practicing this path), Guru, God and Shastras.

f. Samadhan – To stay focused on the practice.

4. Mumukshatva – Burning desire for liberation.


Once you have Vivek and Vairagya along with firm determination for liberation, all other qualities gradually develop within. Regular prayers and surrender to God also help a lot. Being prepared to leave everything for SELF realization is an asset.

First verse of Atma Bodha says

1. I am composing the ATMA-BODHA, this treatise of the Knowledge of the Self, for those who have purified themselves by austerities and are peaceful in heart and calm, who are free from cravings and are desirous of liberation.

Both of them are prakarana granths, meaning for beginners. So you can guess that one needs to qualify to read even Prakarana Granth.

Cross posted from prerequisites to learn advaita? Post #17

In simple words, Advaita is for pure minds and for ones who only want moksha and not anything else. He/she is ready to leave everything in this world for moksha.

such a person prefers to stay neutral to likes and dislikes and even does not perform seva. Seva is for extrovert mind, since extrovert mind is not fit for meditation.

Entire karma kaand is for chitta shuddi, then according to ones nature, one shifts to either bhakti (idol worship) or Jnana (formless brahman)

All paths requires grace of God.

Duality has an advantage. You can complain, get angry, vent frustration to your deity.

In advaita, to whom will you vent our frustration. Formless God is everywhere, where should is catch God? You need some adhara (support) which you need for emotional outlet.

Even complaining will bring closer to god and will help one calm down, as after emotional outlet, mind calms down. In this case you un-consciously begin to treat God as a living being and not just as a stone statue. This is important. You are getting attached to God.

In advaita, you have to find the source of thoughts or mantra.

Sri Ramakrishna says, dvaita, visista dvaita and Advaita are not contradictory. They compliment each other. They are steps to Self Realization. From duality to non-duality.

Self Realization is the ultimate State and necessary to be free from cycle of birth and death.

cross posted from Can I follow the vaishnava customs as one accepting advaita over dvaita? Post #8

Also please refer the post

Advaita seems so empty and impersonal to me leaving a void in me... post #19

A short excerpt

Advaita is difficult than dvaita in a sense that in advaita there is no option for an emotional outlet.

In Sri Ramakrishna's words, Bhakta is like being a Kitten (Cat's Child). Kitten does only 'meau meau' when it needs anything. It is the mother who searches her child, grabs her in her mouth and then takes her to a safe place. If a kitten requires food, all it has to do is 'meau meau', and mother does the rest.

A Jnani is like a infant monkey. Baby monkey has to grab her mother, that too upside down) by his/her own strength. When mother jumps, the baby has to be careful. If it loses it's grip, it may fall and may have injuries.

I hope you must have got the neck.

Kitten surrenders and then mother (God - Rama, Krishna, Shiva) picks her child, and takes her child to safety, while a baby monkey has to steadfastly hold onto the Mother i.e. Jnana marg sadhaka (follower of Jnana Marg) has to steadfastly hold onto the idea of Brahmabhavana - i.e. I am not the body, thought, mind, but I am the Atman and discard everything that is not Atman. This Atman is the mother monkey.

So if an Advatin keeps Atman in his/her center of life, and does not give importance to anything else he/she can quickly reach to the pinnacle of spiritual truth i.e. mother monkey reaches the topmost branch in no time.

On the other hand a bhakta is entirely dependent upon God.

This is the basic difference.

In today's world, Sri Ramakrishna says, Bhakti is the best that suits all. Sri Ramakrishna recommends Narada Bhakti Sutras

Devotion is the foundation of spirituality, without devotion Jnana marg is dry philosophy. Only the definition of devotion changes. You surrender Ego to SELF or Brahman. Unlike bhakta, an advaitin does not think himself different from Brahman and finally merges in it just like a drop merging in ocean losing it's own identity.

May be this post may be of some help (external link)

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Indiaspirituality