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Thread: Was Siddhartha of the Solar Dynasty?

  1. #51

    Re: Was Siddhartha of the Solar Dynasty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetavan View Post
    Greetings,

    B. R. Ambedkar.
    I meant any non Aryan who rose to prominence in the days of formation of Buddhism or when it was dominant

  2. #52

    Re: Was Siddhartha of the Solar Dynasty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaskaran Singh View Post

    The tipiTaka was first compiled two or three centuries after the time of the buddha, so not really, although I don't see how those qualities make it more poetic (antelope-like legs, seriously?). Regardless, the tipiTaka is probably the most reliable Bauddha text (in general, the sthaviravAda texts are more reliable than the mahAyAna texts as far as I know), so if it's incorrect about the buddha, I don't know what text you can trust. You also seem to be missing the point. I personally don't care much about his appearance, I'm just explaining one of the reasons (according to Alexander Berzin) why some of the early British orientalists were fond of the buddha.
    Very true!
    And the canon was compiled in srilanka ! Now why on earth would they denigrate their own skin color and attribute foreign features unless it was already there

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetavan View Post

    The Buddha eventually tells Ambatta that perfection in wisdom and righteousness trumps lineage.
    Where did he say that? Also perfection means the practice of celibacy and adherence to rules set up by Buddha
    Last edited by Alter ego; 09 January 2014 at 12:10 PM.

  3. #53
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    Re: Was Siddhartha of the Solar Dynasty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alter ego View Post
    Ambatta only complained that they were rude .He did not make fun of buddha's skin color , nor did he make fun of sakya incest
    Greetings,

    Ambatta initially interacted with the Buddha as he would have interacted with "shavelings, sham friars, menial black fellows, the offscouring of our kinsman's heels". The Buddha then commented on Ambatta's excessive pride in his ancestry, a pride which could only come from a lack of training.

    Ambatta then gets angry at the Buddha, calling him "rude", and calling the Shakyas a rough, rude, and touchy tribe, violent and inferior. The Buddha then lowers the boom in discussing Ambatta's ancestry. Ambatta is humbled. The Buddha eventually tells Ambatta that perfection in wisdom and righteousness trumps lineage.

    If Ambatta couldn't stand the heat, then he shouldn't have entered the kitchen.
    "Everybody wants to see God but nobody wants to do any sadhana." -- Swami Sivananda
    "You can advance only through karma yoga; by karma yoga you may benefit others also....Only hard work can make a person powerful and energetic." -- Haidakhan Babaji
    "Do everything you do as Śivathondu." -- Yogaswami

  4. #54
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    Re: Was Siddhartha of the Solar Dynasty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aryavartian View Post
    I think "Suvarna" means golden skin.

    Anyway it is recorded in Tipitaka that he had black hair.
    svarNa/suvarNa, when used in reference to skin color, generally means fair [gaura]. One of the epithets of pArvatI devI (who, by the way, is often called gaurI) in the mArkaNDeya purANam is suvarnaM. When used in other terms (like svarnabhUmi or svarnareta), it means gold, but in a strict sense su+varNa literally just means good color.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetavan View Post
    Greetings,

    I notice that the Buddha declared Kshatriyas superior to Brahamanas in the context of responding to Ambatta, who had previously made fun of the Shakya tribe as being an inferior tribe.

    Perhaps the Buddha was making fun of Ambatta? I know it sounds crazy that the Buddha would have a sense of humor, but anything's possible.
    Giving him a "taste of his own medicine" by stating that since his ancestor had dark skin, he was hence a pishAcha? I'm sorry, but that is definitely not the way an enlightened individual who is viewed as the teacher of manuShya-s and deva-s should act. If he said something like that (that dark skin makes one a pishAcha/demon and that black skin was like filth) in the present day, he would no doubt be viewed espousing neo-Nazi or KKK beliefs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetavan View Post
    Greetings,

    Ambatta initially interacted with the Buddha as he would have interacted with "shavelings, sham friars, menial black fellows, the offscouring of our kinsman's heels". The Buddha then commented on Ambatta's excessive pride in his ancestry, a pride which could only come from a lack of training.

    Ambatta then gets angry at the Buddha, calling him "rude", and calling the Shakyas a rough, rude, and touchy tribe, violent and inferior. The Buddha then lowers the boom in discussing Ambatta's ancestry. Ambatta is humbled. The Buddha eventually tells Ambatta that perfection in wisdom and righteousness trumps lineage.
    Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that buddha was merely trying to "get back at ambaTTha." Still, the statements made by ambaTTha were in regards to his teacher's (pokkharasAti) views of the [s/sh]Akya-s and others (those who come from the feet or what not). The buddha himself states/realizes that "pokkharasAtinA vAchA'ke cha muNDakA samaNakA ibbhA kaNhA bandhupAdApachchA..." Therefore, why does he target ambaTTha and call him a pishAcha due to his complexion when he was not the one who originally made the claim? In regard to his comments about "perfection in wisdom..." I agree with Alter Ego, he (*buddh)a was merely trying to in a sense convert ambaTTha to the shramaNa lifestyle; if you examine the text, he makes this clear. Out of all the people who put trust in their gotra-s (the non-shramaNa-s), the kShatriya-s are the greatest, but the people who follow the vanavAsI/shramaNa lifestyle he laid out are greater than men and gods (khattiyo seTTho janetasmiMye gottapaTisArino vijjAcharaNasampanno so seTTho devamAnuse’ti). If you read what his requirement for acheiving supreme wisdom and conduct [vijjAcharaNasampanno], and hence being greater than the men and gods (seTTho devamAnusa) is, then you would realize that he stated that living off bulbs and fruits (like a bhikkhu/samaNa) was one of them.
    Last edited by Jaskaran Singh; 09 January 2014 at 11:23 PM.
    படைபோர் புக்கு முழங்கும்அப் பாஞ்சசன்னியமும் பல்லாண்டே
    May your pA~nchajanya shankha which reverberates on the battlefield, last thousands upon thousands of years...
    http://archives.mirroroftomorrow.org...anchajanya.jpg

  5. #55

    Re: Was Siddhartha of the Solar Dynasty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaskaran Singh View Post

    svarNa/suvarNa, when used in reference to skin color, generally means fair [gaura]. One of the epithets of pArvatI devI (who, by the way, is often called gaurI) in the mArkaNDeya purANam is suvarnaM. When used in other terms (like svarnabhUmi or svarnareta), it means gold, but in a strict sense su+varNa literally just means good color.

    .
    Well,Parvati(Meenakshi) is depicted as having green color here



    Anyway let us not derail this thread
    "Only one is the fire,which is inflamed in numerous ways.Only one is the sun, which pervades the whole universe.Only one is the dawn,which illuminates all things. Similarly,all that exists is The One and it has manifested into everything here.”

    ~ Rg Veda 8.58.2

  6. #56
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    Re: Was Siddhartha of the Solar Dynasty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alter ego View Post
    Where did he say that?
    'In the supreme perfection in wisdom and righteousness, Ambattha, there is no reference to the question either of birth, or of lineage, or of the pride which says: "You are held as worthy as I," or "You are not held as worthy as I," It is where the talk is of marrying, or of giving in marriage, that reference is made to such things as that, For whosoever, Ambattha, are in bondage to the notions of birth or of lineage, or to the pride of social position, or of connection by marriage, they are far from the best wisdom and righteousness.'
    "Everybody wants to see God but nobody wants to do any sadhana." -- Swami Sivananda
    "You can advance only through karma yoga; by karma yoga you may benefit others also....Only hard work can make a person powerful and energetic." -- Haidakhan Babaji
    "Do everything you do as Śivathondu." -- Yogaswami

  7. #57
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    Re: Was Siddhartha of the Solar Dynasty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaskaran Singh View Post
    [B][I][COLOR="DarkGreen"]
    Giving him a "taste of his own medicine" by stating that since his ancestor had dark skin, he was hence a pishAcha? I'm sorry, but that is definitely not the way an enlightened individual who is viewed as the teacher of manuShya-s and deva-s should act.
    So you agree that the Buddha was enlightened, had realized mukti?
    "Everybody wants to see God but nobody wants to do any sadhana." -- Swami Sivananda
    "You can advance only through karma yoga; by karma yoga you may benefit others also....Only hard work can make a person powerful and energetic." -- Haidakhan Babaji
    "Do everything you do as Śivathondu." -- Yogaswami

  8. #58
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    Re: Was Siddhartha of the Solar Dynasty?

    Namaste

    There is some evidence that the last words of the Buddha to an assemblage of monks were:

    "All component things in the world are changeable. They are not lasting. Endeavor to gain your own salvation."

    You can find that Vivekananda used almost the exact same words on several occasions such as, "None can help you, help yourself, work out your own salvation" and "be your salvation" or "Be rishis for your own salvation", and also coupled this with the concept of change in all things verse what is not changing.

    I now suspect, these last words of Buddha were actually a variant of a specific Upanishadic, Veda, Purana or other verse.

    Is there any such verse that you know of that approximates this? That would demonstrate the Buddha was actually quoting Hindu Dharma? Or was Vivekananda simply borrowing from the Buddha?

    Om Namah Sivaya

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