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Thread: Significance of BG 11:8

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    Significance of BG 11:8

    Greetings friends,

    Arjuna yearns to see Krishna in his transcendental form and pleads thus:

    Quote Originally Posted by Arjuna to Krishna in BG 11:3-4
    O Supreme Lord, how You described Yourself, even so are You. I wish to see Your Lordly form, O Supreme Person. If you think, O Lord, that it can be seen by me, then, O Lord of Yoga, reveal Yourself to me completely.
    What more can a devotee ask for? He entreats his Lord to reveal his workings to him.

    Krishna grants him his request and replies thus:

    Quote Originally Posted by Krishna to Arjuna in BG 11:8
    But you will not be able to see Me with your own eye. I give you a divine eye. Behold my Lordly Yoga!
    Then, Krishna reveals his transcendental form to Arjuna:



    I have my own thoughts on the significance of Krishna endowing Arjuna with "divine eyes". But what do YOU think is the significance of the "divine eye"?

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    Re: Significance of BG 11:8

    This is where I draw parallels to the Advaita concept that is encoded in vaishnavaism. By showing the ‘real’ nature of ‘human’Krishna through the cosmic form, none other than Brahman was pulled into the bigger picture by vaishnavites. Hence the dvaitist (dualist) mustn’t get carried away and preach Vishnu as the supreme lord and stop there. The dualist will have to go a step further and also identify the advaita nature or oneness of the Lord. Argument in favor of dualism is thus weakened thanks to viswa rupa.

    Krishna’s vishva rupam or cosmic form was unbearably intense and hence Arjuna pleads Krishna to restore his human form. If I can extend my argument further, I would say that since human forms / representations are ‘easier’ on the eye, hindus went ahead and established various prathirupams and put them in their shrines.Visva rupam clearly highlights the adviata nature of Hinduism, supporting the belief that Brahman is the only and all SAT out there. The divine eye is the final stage of a hindu seeker and there is nothing more truth out there to realize beyond this for a hindu. criticism of my take is welcome. Namaste.
    Last edited by charitra; 02 January 2013 at 08:25 AM.

  3. #3

    Re: Significance of BG 11:8

    Arjuna needed a divine eye because the Lord's form is a suprasensory entity. But then again, Krishna was there and Arjuna could see him, so why didn't Arjuna need a divine eye for Krishna-darshan? I can think of several points:

    1) The realization of Krishna as the vishva-rUpa is in fact, a higher realization than that required to merely interact with Krishna as friend, cousin, and charioteer. By seeing the vishva-rUpa, Arjuna was actually seeing (not merely being told about) the Lord's all-pervasiveness.

    2) In addition to that, the verse cements the view of the Lord as an entity with infinite transcedental qualities, rather than a formless entity with no attributes. Obviously, seeing an entity with infinite qualities, countless arms, heads, legs, etc is an overwhelming experience. Hence, Arjuna needed Krishna's grace to do it. It follows from this that in other avatAras, the Lord conceals some of his glories so that He can interact with and be visualized by ordinary people.

    3) It's interesting to note that both the puruSha-sukta and the svetAshvatara upaniShad describe a similar form with countless heads, legs, arms, etc This clearly identifies this vishva-rUpa with that puruSha who is upheld as Brahman.
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

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    Re: Significance of BG 11:8

    Krishna’s vishva rupam or cosmic form was unbearably intense and hence Arjuna pleads Krishna to restore his human form.
    If I can extend my argument further, I would say that since human forms / representations are ‘easier’ on the eye, hindus went ahead and established various prathirupams and put them in their shrines.
    Visva rupam clearly highlights the adviata nature of Hinduism, supporting the belief that Brahman is the only and all SAT out there. The divine eye is the final stage of a hindu seeker and there is nothing more truth out there to realize beyond this for a hindu. criticism of my take is welcome. Namaste.
    Namaste Charitra,

    I think the whole passage need to be posted as independent thread. Kindly enlighten us with your understanding and experiences leading to what you considered as an argument in your message.
    Anirudh...

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    Re: Significance of BG 11:8

    Namaste

    I am told the BG gives instruction to see viswa rupam, which looks as though thousands of suns are blazing. The size of the prapancha purusha is said as having no beginning, middle or end for the viswa rupa or universal form. We see a description of this universal form as the BG continues. What humans see through their human eyes is imperfect – the eye can only see so far, light bends within the eye and what one sees is modified by light, even by other factors such as sound which can cause the mind to release reactive energies that actually impact what the eyes see, and what the human eyes can see can be modified by the mind itself. But divine eyes are possible – experience is an element of such eyes, the experience of the divine. It starts with experiencing the truth of one’s own existence (soul). Will everyone see the exact same universal form with divine eyes?

    The Devas and Devi are referred to as the divine eyes. Also the opening of the eyes is one of the very last steps in the ceremony of Murti establishment in a temple, where in some traditions of this act the priest ritually scrapes or stabs the eye with a golden needle. Devas and Devi can give you divine eyes, in which you can see the future much earlier than others but this does not take away your free will. Even the future can be changed. Divine eyes can help with that. So by being given these divine eyes, in the example of Krishna and Arjun, Arjuna sees the universal form. This may frighten a soul. Because typically a soul is “physically” only in the present even if the mind wanders about in the past and projects into the future. But, with divine eyes, this leads to many things. For example, the very events of Kurukshetra were told to the blind Dhritarashtra by Sanjaya his advisor who was given the blessing of divya chakshu by the sage Vyasa. So at that moment, did he see the universal form? In one way, yes, because in seeing the past, present and future as Sanjaya saw, this is another way of the universal form and not just millions of eyes and heads and forms. For those who are Krishna devotees, we see that for Radha, separation from Her Lord was no longer subject to the will of mental or even spiritual separation but that Krishna would appear when Radha cast Her “divine eyes” upon almost anything. Divine eyes are spiritual doors. The Guru’s eyes are also called divine eyes. What is an eye? An eye is looking at something else, either outward or even inward. To connect, a soul often wants to connect directly by looking at the eyes of what contains that devotion or source to the divinity. Divine eyes are not a moment in time, but just as the universal form can keep growing and are never ending. Divine eyes can become so powerful, they may even be able to emit what some consider fire. What looks out from the eye can in time, even take form as well. That is why form is timeless, no start or end. Some laugh at the idea of the vision which emits from the eyes taking to form such as like fire. Yet, humans do this in the millions and billions all over the world when they cry tears that come from the eyes. The vision coming out from the eye can and does take form. Divine eyes are mostly a gift to you, or the soul. Krishna gave divine eyes. Shiva is called Asuthoshar or easy audience. He seems to easily give divine eyes to devotees. There are many examples. Seeing the universal form is not limited. It is full of fragrance, yes?

    Om Namah Sivaya

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    Re: Significance of BG 11:8

    Namaste WM,

    Vishwa-roopa means "in the form of the universe". Universe cannot be seen by ordinary eyes. Why ? The universe is infinite. Even if the Arjuna's eyes traveled with maximum possible speed i.e. the speed of light .... it was impossible to have the full view of God's Vishva-roopa as the speed of light is too less as compared to vastness of the universe. Moreover, it was not only the universe we know ... but also all those which we don't (like Yakshas's lokas, gandhravas etc.). So, Divine eye is needed.

    However, this was still Vishva-roopa only and not Advaita form of God (as in Self-realisation). If we remember, God in the waking state, in His Cosmic form, is called ViraaT ... imo, this form is similar to that.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  7. #7

    Re: Significance of BG 11:8

    Quote Originally Posted by charitra View Post
    This is where I draw parallels to the Advaita concept that is encoded in vaishnavaism. By showing the ‘real’ nature of ‘human’Krishna through the cosmic form, none other than Brahman was pulled into the bigger picture by vaishnavites. Hence the dvaitist (dualist) mustn’t get carried away and preach Vishnu as the supreme lord and stop there. The dualist will have to go a step further and also identify the advaita nature or oneness of the Lord. Argument in favor of dualism is thus weakened thanks to viswa rupa.

    Krishna’s vishva rupam or cosmic form was unbearably intense and hence Arjuna pleads Krishna to restore his human form. If I can extend my argument further, I would say that since human forms / representations are ‘easier’ on the eye, hindus went ahead and established various prathirupams and put them in their shrines.Visva rupam clearly highlights the adviata nature of Hinduism, supporting the belief that Brahman is the only and all SAT out there. The divine eye is the final stage of a hindu seeker and there is nothing more truth out there to realize beyond this for a hindu. criticism of my take is welcome. Namaste.


    um, do you have Advaitin scholarly backup for these things you said?

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    Re: Significance of BG 11:8

    Quote Originally Posted by charitra View Post

    This is where I draw parallels to the Advaita concept that is encoded in vaishnavaism.
    What is this supposed to mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by charitra View Post

    Hence the dvaitist (dualist) mustn’t get carried away and preach Vishnu as the supreme lord and stop there.
    Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by charitra View Post

    The dualist will have to go a step further and also identify the advaita nature or oneness of the Lord.
    Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by charitra View Post

    Argument in favor of dualism is thus weakened thanks to viswa rupa.
    How?

    Quote Originally Posted by charitra View Post

    Visva rupam clearly highlights the adviata nature of Hinduism, supporting the belief that Brahman is the only and all SAT out there.
    How?
    namastE astu bhagavan vishveshvarAya mahAdevAya tryaMbakAya|
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    Om shrImAtrE namah

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    Re: Significance of BG 11:8

    Thanks all for the comments.

    In my view the need for a "divine eye" comes from:

    (1)If God were to suddenly "appear before us", we would be confused with our limited intellect. This is why, as was pointed out, Arjuna eventually begs Krishna to assume his "normal" form. For e.g. while Krishna reveals his transcendental form, Arjuna - for a while - become omniscient. He is actually able to see the future when he sees the death of the Kauravas.

    (2)"Divine eye" stands more generally for perception or experience. That Arjuna was able to "see" Krishna means that it is possible for us to experience God in his fullness in this life itself. No need to wait after death for that.

    (3)Ultimately, the greatest wish for a devotee is to know God in His entirety. Nothing less would satisfy a devotee. Nothing short of experiencing God's knowledge itself is what will satisfy a devotee.

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    Re: Significance of BG 11:8

    namaskar,

    To me the 'divine eye' means something that is not physical but internal. I think that Arjuna was suddenly dropped in deep samadhi (as in Yoga). The lord had just finished telling him about Yoga in the previous chapters. IMHO only in deep samadhi nara can 'see' narayana thus divine eye is samadhi.

    Of course, the above is just my own opinion as requested by the OP.
    satay

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