satay
Dear wundermonk,
What is objectively divine evidently presupposes its counterpart, which is the capacity of the subject to recognize divinity.
The divine eye here is the capacity to recognize spiritual values. Mere human eyes are too weak to even see the continuous flow of events in time. They can comprehend only an empirical view of reality consisting of events. A vision of creative becoming is seen only by the yogic eye.
Sanjaya reports that Arjuna saw countless faces and eyes, signifying the infinite range of the multifaceted aspects of the Absolute. What is meant here is not an externalized vision, but an identity which has no inside or outside.
More important event to be noted is , contrary to the normal expectation of the blissful excitement of a vision of God, Arjuna is led to a vision which makes him shudder with dread.
Why is God described as almost like a terrible monster in whose mouth everything finds its final extinction? What is the significance of this awful vision?
The vision described is not of a theological God who can be contrasted with a devil. In an overall picture of the Absolute, the several worlds in which man lives have all to find their respective places. Man lives at once in the past present and the future. His mind is very often haunted by several hypostatic worlds, both of a cosmological and psychological nature. Some of the worlds so real to him when he is in a religious frenzy or mystical exaltation belong to the archetypal imaginations presented in the epics or legendary folklore on which the mind was fed in its formative period.
We cannot make a dichotomy of the good and the bad, life and death, and the bliss and distress. The absolute ceases to be absolute if something else has an existence apart from it. Further, in one sweep in this cosmic vision, the entire range of imagination of mankind through all ages is to be reviewed and presented as a total whole. All that has been projected on the human mind from time to time is gathered here to thrown into the fire of a total cessation, so that nothing will be left to mar the purity of Lord Krishna, the Absolute consciousness described as sat-cit-ananda, existence subsistence and the value of immaculate Bliss.
Is this vision not seeing in the ordinary sense of the term, could it not be taken for a fantasy? Furthermore, Arjuna is asked to see whatever he is desirous of seeing (ca yat anyat iccahsi drashtum 11-7). Is the actualization of wishful thinking really a spiritual experience?
A spiritual experience is like an ascent to the mountaintop. One does not know what is there until one gets there. For this reason the experience begins with fulfillment of what one initially wishes to experience. The element of fantasy cannot be ignored. However this stage changes as one leaves the threshold of preconceived notions. Love
namaste charita
advaitavada or mayavada says jiva is brahma, jagat is dream , absolute brahma is nirguna nirvishes and nirakar,renounce karma and become samnyasi because karma is the cause of all miseries, only jnan ( advaita jnan) can help us to overcome maya etc etc.
I want to put some questions to you. i) do you think Gita also teaches the above mentioned advaitavada ? ii) do you consider sri krishna as absolute nirguna nirakar nirvishes brahma if not or if yes , why ? iii) do you consider any other tattva left to know even after sri krishna ,as per Gita ? do you consider the manifestations of bhagavan in terms of vishwarupa are just dream and not real ? iv) what is SAT and ASAT to you as far as Gita is concerned ?
Namaste Jopmala, Anirudh and Omkar,
I have theorized some out of the box concept here, hence the thread has a great chance of getting derailed. I dont want dear WM to get mad at me. So I created headache what I call a separate thread(See link below) to expand my OWN radical theory. Iam not answering specific questions raised by you all esteemed members yet though. I have to wait for rebuttals of my proposals first.
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=10855
हरिः ओम्
Namaste All,
Oh what a wonderful thread, my favourite chapter of the Bhagavad gita.
We would be wise, I think, to analyse Kṛṣṇa's use of the name Guḍākeśa in Chapter 11, so as to better grasp the nature of the "divine eye".
Sloka 7 is the last time that Kṛṣṇa calls Arjuna by this name having done so previously.
In this chapter Kṛṣṇa is the divine eye, the eye is the vision its self; the experience.
What does one do with this experience, one changes perception; conquering sleep and ignorance with light and vision.
We might again gain more knowledge as to the nature of this experience of Arjuna's, by considering his words in Chapter 11 sloka 56.
"After seeing your mild human form, O janārdana, I am again my normal self, and my mind has assumed its normal function."
We must be quite careful not to remove the "divine eye" from context; which is to my mind, the manic state of conciousness of Arjuna.
The revelation of the divine mother, an initial awakening; I think samādhi would come later.
Thank you for your thoughts.
praṇāma
mana
ॐ नमः शिवाय
Last edited by Mana; 14 January 2013 at 05:27 PM.
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