Astrology and the Visible Stars — A Look Back in Time?

[Equinox]

Vannakkam


The Universe (space) has always intrigued me. It's just so vast, infinite and mysterious. I enjoy stargazing whenever I have the time, trying to identify constellations and planets. It's fun! Until, of course, upon further research a few years ago, I became dumbfounded with the fact that I was actually looking back in time. Then it all felt quite eerie and uncomfortable. But the fun and mystery was multiplied several times. I also felt sort of "backdated" and eventually, helpless, like stuck in time.

The stars look so beautiful at night, right? But there's a surprise. In case you haven't realised, the stars you see are what they used to be many, many years ago. It's an image of the past. All this due to the speed of light, and how long it takes for light from those celestial bodies to reach our eyes. What we see right now is a backlog of the sky.

Sunlight takes about slightly more than 8 minutes to reach us here on Earth, and that means when we look at the Sun, it is what it used to be 8 minutes ago. The sun rays that shine on us left the Sun 8 minutes back. Moonlight takes about slightly more than a second, hardly any difference since the Moon is only about 390,000 km from Earth, the nearest object to us, compared to other celestial bodies. The image of the second nearest star, the Proxima Centauri, takes about 4.3 light years to reach us. The more distant stars which are visible to the naked eye are even "older", we are seeing them as they used to be thousands to tens of thousands of years ago, depending on their distance from Earth and how long light from there takes to reach us.

Fascinating isn't it?

The positions of those very stars would have had changed by now, even while we're actually looking at them, and some may have even "died".

I know that modern Hindu astrological timing and planetary positions are obtained from calculations based on books and panchangams that contain planetary records of many, many years. My question is, aren't they supposed to be of stars and planets in the sky at present and not that of thousands of years ago? When did ancient astronomers and astrologers begin recording astrological data, and how would they have known what it looked like in the beginning since what they actually saw was an image of the past? I know it's a cycle, since these celestial bodies repeat their positions over and over again. But if certain planets and stars are in the sky right now, visible to us, are their positions really important or that of the planets and stars which are supposedly there right now, that can only be seen in the future or maybe never at all, since we don't live that long? Do they just ignore the ones that are visible at present and consult their panchangams and records for those that should be there?




Aum Namah Shivaya

[Viraja]

The maharishis not only identified distant planets and their distances, their speed, etc. An old book I read long ago also described their calculation of how far is Vaikuntha and 'paatala' from earth, how to reach them and so forth. Don't know the name of this grantha, would like to hear about it if anyone knows it.

[Mana]

हरिः ओम्


Namaste Equinox,


Thank you for such an interesting thread, completely fascinating, compelling, I'm besotted; Beautiful.

Jyotish is the study of light and with that, the flow of time; the two are inseparable. We can read this most eloquently
demonstrated in Einstein's paper on general relativity. This to my mind, had already been understood by the rṣī
before him.

The light arriving at any given place at any given time is "coloured" by its origin. Also by the speed and density of its
source, but this is getting in a little deeper than is necessary for the explanation at hand.

There are schools of Jyotish who base their study upon the most up to date ephemeris from NASA, yet we must beware
even when using these precise figures, to chose the apparent positions after the light has traversed our atmosphere and
gravity; not the actual positions. As you have wisely observed, this would negate space-time, the light is greatly affected
by its travel and we are interested only in the light arriving and not the actual position of the celestial body's them selves.
Graha the Sanskrit for planet more literally means to be grabbed, it is the light, the energy, which does the grabbing.

DNA is structured upon a base of phosphate, a mineral which is its self is only steps away from emitting light as a
phosphate when combined with oxygen. E=mc² shows that our energetic state is directly connected to our mass and
motion. We need only feel the warmth of the sunlight upon or skin to be aware of the energy present in the photo electric
spectrum.

Trends may flow from the nature of our technology; such as the maths and our ability to pre-dict the position of these
celestial Body's, with it. We might even say that we've become temporally carried away by the calculation its self, and
forgotten the importance of the light. Some schools still use Surya siddhanta, stating that these positions are where our
minds still think the body's to be. To my mind this leads to a divergence from nature.

Western astrology is entirely based upon the tropical zodiac which slowly drifts out of phase with the actual stars upon
witch it was initially set, to my mind this is reflected by the current Western detachment from mother nature, this is
happening to such an extent, I have heard it said that the medical phenomenon has been recorded that Women who live
in our big city's, are increasingly found to be ovulating much more rapidly; Western science has no idea as to why this
might be ...

We must be aware with astrology that the universe is fully interactive and the astrologer has an enormous responsibility
to be clean and close to nature, to the root. The best way to reckon the planetary positions is to look.

Alternatively in this modern age we can do this accurately from a computer with the settings of our computer comfortably
set to "apparent" positions. I do dream of one day owning or being able to access a telescope which is driven by the
computer, but showing the actual stars and planets.

I am expressing only my feelings, opinions and thoughts, I am sure that there will be others here who feel and think
differently. I am always interested to hear any perspective or differing point of view.

As a thought for any who claim not to believe in Jyotish, I should simply like to state that:
One may, or may not, believe in an astrologer; it is the ubiquitous nature of Śiva that makes Jyotish, as inevitable
as it is eloquent.


praṇāma

mana


ॐ नमः शिवाय

[Equinox]

Vannakkam

Thank you for your replies, Mana and Aspirant.


Mana: Thank you for your very detailed answer. I read it enthusiastically.

Jyotish is the study of light and with that, the flow of time; the two are inseparable. We can read this most eloquently
demonstrated in Einstein's paper on general relativity. This to my mind, had already been understood by the rṣī
before him.

I will read on that as soon as I find the time.

we are interested only in the light arriving and not the actual position of the celestial body's them selves.
Graha the Sanskrit for planet more literally means to be grabbed, it is the light, the energy, which does the grabbing.

So that's where the answer lies. Thank you, for I wouldn't have had made sense of the connection otherwise.

I understand it all so much better now.

As a thought for any who claim not to believe in Jyotish, I should simply like to state that:
One may, or may not, believe in an astrologer; it is the ubiquitous nature of Śiva that makes Jyotish, as inevitable
as it is eloquent.

Well said.



Aum Namah Shivaya

[Adhvagat]

Whenever we contemplate the universe all we can offer it is our most sincere silence.

[Ra K Sankar]

Namaste

If in one's horoscope Rahu is in 2nd place from the Ascendant, this confers silence to the native. If such placing of Rahu confers deep silence to the native, due to the great strength of Rahu's influence in the horoscope, then that person is deemed fit for being initiated into monastic order. Of course, this is only one of the many criteria for such an initiation.

Ra K Sankar

[Mana]

हरिः ओम्


Namaste,


Silence is superb for concentration, yet it has been said that meditation in action is 100x more benific.
I find that it is whilst singing that the universe is most predisposed to play ...

Ra K Sankar Ji, are you referring to the Vimshamsha Varga?


praṇāma

mana


ॐ नमः शि

[Equinox]

Vannakkam

हरिः ओम्



I find that it is whilst singing that the universe is most predisposed to play ...

By serenely lying on the grass and observing the stars while singing a hymn isn't it? How exactly? Pardon me for my curiosity, but that is how I might do it.


Aum Namah Shivaya

[Mana]

हरिः ओम्


Namaste Equinox,

If by doing so you lift your spirits and ideally those of others then absolutely, yes!
If you play close attention to the stars, they may even give you the song.

I find that the timing and continence of our speech, which is at its most eloquent when sung, to be the very foundation of mantra.
By the play of mātṛkā, we have much less say in the way this happens than we like to believe.
As we speak as much is said by the way in which we speak as by the words that we chose, in the intonation.
If mantra is performed in harmony with the cosmos, elevation of the spirit occurs; if we are out of time, or discordant;
then we fall. The art being thus in the balance.



praṇāma

mana


ॐ नमः शिवा

[Equinox]

Ah, bien vu! Merci.



Aum Namah Shivaya