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Thread: Paying for kirtan

  1. #1
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    Paying for kirtan

    I understand paying for a kirtana or bhajana CD. What I don't understand is paying a bloody $30 just to partake in some kirtana-sanga!

    In my religion, kirtana plays a big role in expressing one's affection for God, developing our sentiments towards bhakti, and learning to develop the qualities of a pure devotee. When I see kirtana being money grabbers, I suddenly feel ambivalent towards the usage of something so sacred as divine sound and prayerful music into another marketable trend.

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    Re: Paying for kirtan

    Vannakkam

    Did you mean paying $30 to take part in a kirtan performance or to watch a kirtan performance?

    As far as I know, all Hare Krishna (ISKCON) kirtan-bhajan performances are free of charge and we only make a donation to show our appreciation.


    Aum Namah Shivaya

  3. #3

    Re: Paying for kirtan

    Maybe this is His way of telling you to sit down somewhere and start your own kirtan. Who knows? You might just attract other Vaishnavas who will join you. :-)
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

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    Re: Paying for kirtan

    Namaste

    In India for example, there are transvestites (in this case specifically men who dress in saris and jewels and bangles) who are paid to come to your house and sing kirtans. But they charge a lot more than $30 dollars in some cases (e.g. more than 1600 rupees), their kirtans are to bring "good luck" or for happy events.

    But being this is I think in context of Vaishnava, perhaps the saints who did kirtans and thus the traditional idea of kirtana, this must be something like you pay them and they then gather a group together, do the singing and loud chanting with kartalas and mridangas and such, and then split up the $30 dollars later. But I have never seen, or heard any such thing, so I do not understand the question.

    Of course, donations are asked in some cases. You know, the boatmen who take you across or up and down the Ganga give good advice, explain the holy sites, they will even chant and do a bhajan (without instruments however), and they ask for a donation in addition to any transport charges - which is correct, there is nothing wrong with this. There are also professional troupes in India who do very artistic renditions based on historic and amazing songs and artistic dance and include what one might think of as "kirtana" - they want more than $30 dollars in some cases (1600 rupees or more), which is reasonable and especially if you are a rich Westerner who has the chance and privilege to ever be audience to the exciting and wonderful arts, but that is in India, not here in US or Canada.

    Well, I suppose it COULD be offered in Canada. I wish it would be here in California. I would pay $30 dollars for it. I paid more than $100 dollars to view outstanding dances of India in the past, some of which were amazing and very much like kirtans, but these were on stage.

    ??? Never seen any ISKCON devotees for example, go around with a "hat" and say "give me $30 dollars and then we will do a kirtan" - never. ??? Firstly, I don't think they would collect 30 cents much less than $30 dollars.

    As far as paying and being audience to the wonderful music, dance and arts of the people of India, such as in a village (not talking about the snake charmers), I am happy to pay and feel lucky to see. You must pay the boatman - think of Rama taken across by the boatman. You must pay the artists. You must pay the transvestites. You must pay, and if you are a rich Westerner, don't be an ugly American and skimp. Pay and pay good. You don't know how lucky you are.

    Om Namah Sivaya

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    Re: Paying for kirtan

    Namaste

    Actually, this might be a question about Temple Services such as the services of a Brahmin, Pujari, Pandit, Priest etc. to come personally to your home, sometimes with a retinue, to perform a homa, or puja, home blessings, many other services, for a service fee such as $108 dollars, or $1008 dollars and so on.

    This would be correct, there is nothing wrong with this. It is what helps pay for the temple, feed the family of the priests, and so on.

    There are many examples of this in the Puranas, e.g. 1 gold coin for this, a feast of 7 kinds of rice for that, and so on.

    So I suppose there could be a service that might look like a kirtan, but not a kirtan in the traditional sense of public blessing for the world. But I have not seen it on any Temple Services billings on any temples I have attended.

    Lot's of things are not free per say. For example, I have an account with a Jyotish, I have to pay $100 dollars for each time I need a service. This is the standard charge in the USA, only those Jyotish who have results are successful and it doesn't matter if they leverage computer programs in their Jyotish practice it is their expertise and public reputation that I pay for.

    In India there are pandas or guides. Some such as at Kali Ghat are tricksters who do not request fees or donations until afterwards, but there are also actual Pandas who provide a very real and welcome service to pilgrims who don't "know the ropes" if you will, just make sure you know what the donation will be prior to taking hire.

    Personally, taking fees or donations is proper and obvious in some cases even if it is a service of a divine nature.

    Today, I have to go to "Jury Duty". I have no choice, I have to go, I may be selected to serve on a jury to judge a person innocent or guilty. It is a civic duty. But even stiil, they will pay for my petrol and perhaps a few dollars a day "for my service". Of course.

    Om Namah Sivaya

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    Re: Paying for kirtan

    Quote Originally Posted by philosoraptor View Post
    Maybe this is His way of telling you to sit down somewhere and start your own kirtan. Who knows? You might just attract other Vaishnavas who will join you. :-)
    Yeah, maybe I should! In Canada, we have a few famous kirtan singers that pervade the New Age subculture, and it is those that I speak of. While when Gaudiya Vaishnavas are singing on the streets just as the Bauls in India charge nothing, I find that chanting the names of God for money that is higher than a donation price quite "out-there"!

  7. #7

    Re: Paying for kirtan

    The entire archives of Raganuga.Com, traditional Bengali kirtan and translations of Sri Ananta Das Babaji's classes.

    http://archive.org/details/raganuga-com

    A Freebie for you !


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    Re: Paying for kirtan

    Namaste Jogesh, thanks for sharing the link!
    Om Namah Sivaya

  9. #9

    Re: Paying for kirtan

    Quote Originally Posted by ShivaFan View Post
    Namaste Jogesh, thanks for sharing the link!
    Om Namah Sivaya
    your very welcome


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    Re: Paying for kirtan

    Quote Originally Posted by ShivaFan View Post
    Namaste

    Actually, this might be a question about Temple Services such as the services of a Brahmin, Pujari, Pandit, Priest etc. to come personally to your home, sometimes with a retinue, to perform a homa, or puja, home blessings, many other services, for a service fee such as $108 dollars, or $1008 dollars and so on.

    This would be correct, there is nothing wrong with this. It is what helps pay for the temple, feed the family of the priests, and so on.

    There are many examples of this in the Puranas, e.g. 1 gold coin for this, a feast of 7 kinds of rice for that, and so on.

    So I suppose there could be a service that might look like a kirtan, but not a kirtan in the traditional sense of public blessing for the world. But I have not seen it on any Temple Services billings on any temples I have attended.

    Lot's of things are not free per say. For example, I have an account with a Jyotish, I have to pay $100 dollars for each time I need a service. This is the standard charge in the USA, only those Jyotish who have results are successful and it doesn't matter if they leverage computer programs in their Jyotish practice it is their expertise and public reputation that I pay for.

    In India there are pandas or guides. Some such as at Kali Ghat are tricksters who do not request fees or donations until afterwards, but there are also actual Pandas who provide a very real and welcome service to pilgrims who don't "know the ropes" if you will, just make sure you know what the donation will be prior to taking hire.

    Personally, taking fees or donations is proper and obvious in some cases even if it is a service of a divine nature.

    Today, I have to go to "Jury Duty". I have no choice, I have to go, I may be selected to serve on a jury to judge a person innocent or guilty. It is a civic duty. But even stiil, they will pay for my petrol and perhaps a few dollars a day "for my service". Of course.

    Om Namah Sivaya
    Namaste.

    I always thought it was against Dharma for there to be an 'imposed fee' for religious services carried out by a Pundit.

    Suffice to say, I was always up to my neck in rice, flour, ghee, sugar, potatoes, dried legumes, bath towels, kurtas, socks, hankies, scarves and loose change (they call it 'Puja Pad' IIRC).

    It's basically all donation basis and whatever anybody can afford to give and only if they feel like giving it. A good Pujari can make a small fortune off Aarti donations anyway.

    The whole 'karmic strain' gets too much otherwise. It's bad enough living off charity anyway. Yeah, pride gets in the way too much.

    I agree with that thing about the 'shemales' singing kirtans to bring 'good luck that's totally awesome! I wouldn't mind paying for that. It's a 'blessing' to your home and family and they have right to charge.

    Otherwise, I wouldn't go pay for something I can get for free at my local Hare Krishna temple.

    Aum Namah Shiva
    Last edited by Necromancer; 14 January 2013 at 11:01 PM.

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