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Thread: Brahmacharya: "only" chastity or also stop of every sense enjoyment?

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    Brahmacharya: "only" chastity or also stop of every sense enjoyment?

    Namaste all.

    Since I decided to practice at my best all yamas and niyamas,I have to know the exact meaning of them inside the context of Patanjali's Raja-yoga.

    In this regard my question is about Brahmacharya: does that mean "only" total chastity(action,words and thoughs) or also complete absticence from every kind of sense enjoyment(music,videogame ecc)?

    If the true meaning is the letter,I have another question: spiritual songs(like bhajans of Lord Krishna) and movies(like Ramayana) are also forbidden?

    Pranama,
    Orlando.
    Om Sri Kalikayai Namah

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    Re: Brahmacharya: "only" chastity or also stop of every sense enjoyment?

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namast

    Quote Originally Posted by orlando View Post
    Since I decided to practice at my best all yamas and niyamas,I have to know the exact meaning of them inside the context of Patanjali's Raja-yoga.
    Let me suggest the review of this HDF post : http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2960

    Then, some additional conversations will bear more fruit.

    iti śivaṁ
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Brahmacharya: "only" chastity or also stop of every sense enjoyment?

    Quote Originally Posted by orlando View Post
    Namaste all.

    Since I decided to practice at my best all yamas and niyamas,I have to know the exact meaning of them inside the context of Patanjali's Raja-yoga.

    In this regard my question is about Brahmacharya: does that mean "only" total chastity(action,words and thoughs) or also complete absticence from every kind of sense enjoyment(music,videogame ecc)?

    If the true meaning is the letter,I have another question: spiritual songs(like bhajans of Lord Krishna) and movies(like Ramayana) are also forbidden?

    Pranama,
    Orlando.
    It is said in Vivek Chudamani that destruction of desires is nothing but liberation. Even in bhakti, you only and only think of God and nothing else. All else emotions get transformed into love for God or fade away.

    The thing is to do both. Practice control and increase bhakti. As bhakti increases, desires fade away.

    So for brahmacharya, on strict grounds you should not even look at the picture of women. Do you remember the case of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu renouncing his disciple just because he talked to a female. But such thing is not possible for us. So you will have to keep that in check. There are 2 things - Control and being neutral. Yoga says to keep control and achieve mastery. There is another way to surrender all desires to God and keep praying to give unconditional love and bhakti. This will neutralize your negative nature and all desires as only God can uproot desires.

    A perfect example is a reference mark. You have to reach to it. It gives you inspiration. You cannot simply renounce every emotion and be with God from day one. But eventually one day after years of practice you may be able to be with God most of the day and live on bare necessities.

    Swami Sivananda said that even religious serials are not worth as the actors are themselves not pure. They are just acting and may behave in exact opposite manner in real life.

    But out mind needs emotional outlet, else it will backfire and days will come when you will quit meditating. So step by step you reduce anything that is not compulsory. You should increase Japa or meditation. More you can meditate, more you can throw all kinds of thoughts and desires.

    Just meditating and not keeping a check on emotions or desires will be like climbing up one step and climbing down one step. When will you reach first floor? Even if you try entire life, you will be at same spot. So in meditation you will remove all desires and after meditation is over you will have your day's schedule. For 1 or 2 hours you stay with God, rest 22 hours, you are with worldly objects. How can you expect to get transformed. So total renunciation (in mind) is necessary. But this is done step by step and not all at a time, else mind will back fire. You simply cannot stay without work. Mind is not used to being idle. As soon as mind calms, thought spring up and you are again engaged in thoughts. This is the reason why in meditation people complain that when they meditate their mind begins to wander. In Meditation, mind calms and so it idle mind will try to keep thinking.

    So both are required - Meditation and vairagya. Vairagya means absence of desires. First comes control and strong determination and a disciplined approach coupled with strong surrender and constant prayers.

    Imagine you want to fill a bucket with water but the bottom has holes !! can the water stay in bucket. So brahmacharya is needed. But many times desires is strong so, you will have to control it, surrender, pray and reduce it 's duration.

    If mind is not given any emotional outlet, you may become more violent. So better watch TV, though's it's not necessary. If you can live without TV, nothing good like that, but if you dont, see one religious serial. Technically watching TV has no meaning.

    But the change is gradual, not sudden and you will have to keep mind strong.

    Swami Sivananda also said that Semen production is natural and occasional ejaculation is ok. After one advances in spirituality, semen production may even stop at astral level. I will try to find the link. If I find it I will give the link.

    Just one question - I thought you are a bhakta, then you do you practice Raja Yoga??

    Why mix up and mess up???

    Surrender and prayers are also powerful and have an edge over self control, as you do not develop ego in case of success. Also your devotion will increase when you will experience that God is really taking all desires and helping me.

    Aum
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

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    Re: Brahmacharya: "only" chastity or also stop of every sense enjoyment?

    I found the link: Brahmacharya (Celibacy)

    Some things re not practically possible, like in the article, it is said

    HOW TO GET ESTABLISHED IN CELIBACY

    Do not think of the opposite sex. Do not look at the opposite sex. Looking at the opposite sex will create desire to talk to them. Talking will create a desire to touch them. Eventually you will have an impure mind and will fall a victim. Therefore never look at the opposite sex. Never talk intimately with them. Do not be familiar with them.
    I would say that do not look to women with an eye of lust. Trying to see God inside them will help. Some say, you must worship female form i.e. Maa Durga or Maa Saraswati. Super imposing Maa Saraswati is easier on women then super imposing Krushna. Also when you worship a female form, you will naturally develop respect for female, as every female is a part (Ansh) of Maa Saraswati or Maa Laxmi or Adi Shakti, etc. Shankaracharya said that you should say 'Mata', as all our tendencies will calm down once you say 'mother'. So even sadhus say 'Mata ji' to females. Shankaracharya said that if occasion arises and you sleep next to your mother. In the night if you feel impulse and open you eyes, immediately you see you mother's face and all the impulse will fade away. So he suggested to look every women as mother. We can mentally say 'Maa' to practically apply it.

    So summarize ways to subdue lust

    External ways:

    1. Worship female Goddesses or Lord Hanuman who was a Brahmachari

    2. Super impose your deity on female

    3. Do not look with an eye of lust

    4. Do not watch B-films / porn movies.

    5. Have limited interaction with opposite sex and only talk that is necessary. Do not go on a walk with them. Let them think you are too orthodox village guy living in 60s . If you have to communicate on professional grounds, let it end as soon as you live office, no chit-chatting during lunch time and after office hours and of course at time.

    6. Stop watching sexy pictures and today's video songs. They indirectly affect you.

    Internal ways:

    5. Mentally say 'Maa' to a women when you feel impulse.

    6. Pray to God to remove lust and give pure bhakti

    7. Surrender to God so that in general all desires will be removed.

    8. Meditate - Do Japa with full faith in God with only intention of having divine vision of God. Then God will up-root all desires. Meditation is very very important. Do Not Neglect it. If you cannot do japa, then do puja and read hymms and sahastra namas, etc.

    9. Please do not feel guilty. It is natural and every living thing has it.

    Some more tips which directly and indirectly help reduce lust and increase brahmacharya:

    10. If desire comes, understand that it is natural. DO NOT try to avoid it. But be prepared and let it come ... and let is go. Do not react. Just neglect. Be firm that 'I will not let myself be dragged into this impulse.You can also pray.

    11. Increase time of devotional practices.

    12. Read and repeat shastras many times. Read shastras that give importance to celibacy.

    13. Do not forcefully control any desire. It will backfire. If impulse is too strong, then go for it, but not without fighting. Your weapons are let-go, shakshi bhava, prayer and surrender to God. In some cases initially using force to avoid impulse works, but do not make it a habit. Have strong determination as not to be dragged in the impulse.

    14. If possible drop TV and newspapers. They only have negative news. Somebody was raped, somebody was murdered, etc. Also the news are many time biased. There are also paid news. Nothing is 100 % true. You can live without TV and newspaper. In fact Psychologists strongly advice depressed patients and ones with inferiority complex and low confidence to stop watching TV and reading newspapers.

    15. As a general rule, if something agitates your mind, it is not good you you (from spiritual standpoint). So best avoid it as much as you can.


    My apologies for bad English and long answers.

    I hope this helps. Maybe other members can give some more tips and better explanation to help you in your spiritual progress.

    Good Luck

    Aum
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

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    Re: Brahmacharya: "only" chastity or also stop of every sense enjoyment?

    Namaste Indiaspirituality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Indiaspirituality View Post
    Swami Sivananda also said that Semen production is natural and occasional ejaculation is ok. After one advances in spirituality, semen production may even stop at astral level. I will try to find the link. If I find it I will give the link.
    Don't you worry about the link.
    I already know that great book.I also have it translated in my mother tongue since it is avaible in Italy

    Just one question - I thought you are a bhakta, then you do you practice Raja Yoga??

    Why mix up and mess up???

    Surrender and prayers are also powerful and have an edge over self control, as you do not develop ego in case of success. Also your devotion will increase when you will experience that God is really taking all desires and helping me.
    I realized that practicing Astanta-yoga as my secondary path is not incompatible with my main spiritual path: Gaudiya-vaishnavism.

    Furthermore I have aligned the last three niyamas(Kriya-yoga) with my gaudiya-vaishnava path:
    http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...6&postcount=11

    Thank you very much for the good tips of your second post!

    Pranama,
    Bhakta Orlando.
    Last edited by orlando; 17 January 2013 at 11:38 AM. Reason: To thank Indiaspirituality for the tips of his second post
    Om Sri Kalikayai Namah

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    Re: Brahmacharya: "only" chastity or also stop of every sense enjoyment?

    Quote Originally Posted by orlando View Post
    Namaste Indiaspirituality.



    Don't you worry about the link.
    I already know that great book.I also have it translated in my mother tongue since it is avaible in Italy



    I realized that practicing Astanta-yoga as my secondary path is not incompatible with my main spiritual path: Gaudiya-vaishnavism.

    Furthermore I have aligned the last three niyamas(Kriya-yoga) with my gaudiya-vaishnava path:
    http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...6&postcount=11

    Pranama,
    Bhakta Orlando.
    Nice to know that you managed to get it in your mother tongue. It helps a lot.

    Good explanation by Sahastranama.

    Partly I also agree with the meaning of tapas, but according to Sri Ramana Maharshi, merging of mind in the source of mantra is called tapas.

    Also if you do not like the source of himalayan academy, then do not follow it.

    Aum
    Last edited by Amrut; 17 January 2013 at 12:00 PM.
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

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    Re: Brahmacharya: "only" chastity or also stop of every sense enjoyment?

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namast


    Quote Originally Posted by Indiaspirituality View Post
    It is said in Vivek Chudamani that destruction of desires is nothing but liberation. Even in bhakti, you only and only think of God and nothing else. All else emotions get transformed into love for God or fade away.
    I have a different view ( been taught differently) regarding this matter. It is from the infusion of sattva that one begins to have the Supreme in one's awareness at all times. It is not the other way around. That is, it is a tall order for one to think of the Supreme constently without strain. Yet while one is filled with sattva ( from one's successful practice) the Supreme (kṣetraja) then becomes resident within one's awareness without strain.

    Obsticles (antarāyāḥ) become less over time and with proper practice. Yet the biggest kept secret is the Supreme is there whether we know it or not. Not one second goes by Him...

    iti śiva
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Brahmacharya: "only" chastity or also stop of every sense enjoyment?

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namast



    I have a different view ( been taught differently) regarding this matter. It is from the infusion of sattva that one begins to have the Supreme in one's awareness at all times. It is not the other way around. That is, it is a tall order for one to think of the Supreme constently without strain. Yet while one is filled with sattva ( from one's successful practice) the Supreme (kṣetraja) then becomes resident within one's awareness without strain.

    Obsticles (antarāyāḥ) become less over time and with proper practice. Yet the biggest kept secret is the Supreme is there whether we know it or not. Not one second goes by Him...

    iti śiva
    Namaste,

    What I have told is a reference statement. What you have said is 'how' the desires are uprooted. So it is destination and the process.

    Indeed while meditating one is infused in sattva and in that state, God uproots desires.

    Aum
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

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    Re: Brahmacharya: "only" chastity or also stop of every sense enjoyment?

    hariḥ o
    ~~~~~~

    namast

    Quote Originally Posted by Indiaspirituality View Post
    Namaste,

    What I have told is a reference statement.
    I do not understand... perhaps you wish to expand ?
    My position is brahmacarya is much more then the absence of sexual congress.

    I am not sure if you are interested, but the knowledge offered is contained within this HDF post: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2960

    That said, if one truly understands the notion of kāmakalā then all 'grasping' of the senses with objects are sexual in nature - the union (saṁghaṭṭa) of the senses and objects occurs. This is called viṣa-tattva. This takes us into the mechanics of seer and seen, which we can leave for another time.

    iti śiva
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Brahmacharya: "only" chastity or also stop of every sense enjoyment?

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hariḥ o
    ~~~~~~

    namast



    I do not understand... perhaps you wish to expand ?
    My position is brahmacarya is much more then the absence of sexual congress.

    I am not sure if you are interested, but the knowledge offered is contained within this HDF post: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2960

    That said, if one truly understands the notion of kāmakalā then all 'grasping' of the senses with objects are sexual in nature - the union (saṁghaṭṭa) of the senses and objects occurs. This is called viṣa-tattva. This takes us into the mechanics of seer and seen, which we can leave for another time.

    iti śiva
    When I say destruction of desires is nothing but liberation, it does not show 'how' to destroy desires.

    This is the natural question that will raise as to 'how can I destroy / up-root desires'. The answer is, 'It can be done by chanting God's name'.

    Chanting God's name is sattvik. You have said the same thing in a different way.

    It is from the infusion of sattva that one begins to have the Supreme in one's awareness at all times.
    I hope you are getting my point.

    My position is brahmacarya is much more then the absence of sexual congress.

    I am not sure if you are interested, but the knowledge offered is contained within this HDF post: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2960

    That said, if one truly understands the notion of kāmakalā then all 'grasping' of the senses with objects are sexual in nature - the union (saṁghaṭṭa) of the senses and objects occurs. This is called viṣa-tattva. This takes us into the mechanics of seer and seen, which we can leave for another time.
    This is something new to me, and honestly speaking, I find your posts too technical, so I will have to read it more than one time to understand. I am not complaining, It is good that you spit up words and give word-2-word meaning for better clarity, but I am finding it difficult to grasp in first time. It is the problem on my part.

    I will give an e.g of what I understand:

    When it is said that close your eyes, i.e. withdraw the sense of sight, it applies to all 5 senses. In the same way brahmacharya is not just absence of sensual desire, but absence of all lower emotions or negative emotions, rather it can also be said that absence of all desires.

    Would that mean that vairagya = brahmacharya

    by remaining maun, desires are subdued or uprooted, as maun is the only expression capable of expressing state of Atman. So even maun can be said as a kind of brahmacharya.

    By saying chanting God's name, I mean sadhana of any kind, be it dvaita or advaita. Loosely you can call it as meditation.

    As you know, I am not well versed. I do not know about ' the notion of kāmakalā '

    Aum
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

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