Are gods mortal in Hinduism?

[Seeker]

Namaste Crane-Foot-King Ji,
My understanding is this: Everything we see is immortal. They may merely change shape , go from one body to another in diferent births etc.. But ultimately everything orginates from Brahman and everything folds into Brahman. Some have grace bestowed on them to get moksha in fewer births , but rest of us take eons to get to that point. Some gets pushed down the evolutionary chain due to the actions they take , and prolong their separation.
Not just gods , even you and me are immortal. We 'think' we are mortal when we identify ourselves with flesh & bones.

[jignyAsu]

The One eternal Brahman of the Vedas alone is immortal a/c to all Vedantic schools and rest all appear and disappear.

Purusha Suktha:

"From His mouth was born Indra and Agni and from His prANA was born Vayu."

"Who was existing before the devas."

ChAndogya Upanishad:

"In the beginning (before creation) the world existed in the form of Sat Only"

Therefore the hosts of devas as the effected Indra, Agni etc were missing at the beginning of the creation!

Bhagavad Gita:

"All the worlds including the world of Brahma, are subject to return, Arjuna! "

Since the Vedas is eternal the post of the devas are also eternal but the creation/ destruction of a new Indra is repeated.

Please note, as Seeker points out, here creation & destruction of bodies alone is meant.

The devas neither possess an eternal steady knowledge of the Brahman [KenOpanishad etc] nor have the complete bliss that one gets in Moksha (final emancipation)[Brihandaranyaka Upanishad - Bliss of Prajapati is 100 times more than devas etc]. Therefore the person in the post is not enjoying moksha and differs every time or otherwise it would imply that one person is eternally that way!

The Bhagavatam and other Puranas describe the creation of Brahma and even him quitting his body.

The Mahabharata mentions Nahusha having attained the post of Indra by his own merits, replacing the current Indra. The sage Bhrigu displaces him from his position and transforms him into a snake.

I have come to accept Lord NarayaNa alone as Brahman from the shAstrAs.

But any Hindu identifies his One ishta devata alone to be the Brahman and so all the other devas are subject to destruction for him. I doubt it if any tradition exists today that identifies Indra, Agni or Navagrahas with Brahman.

Brahma is mortal. His lifespan extends for the duration of the universe, and when it is destroyed, he attains liberation.

Just out of curiosity, do we have a reference in the Puranas stating that Brahma will be liberated? I know that Sri MadhvAcharya holds that Lord Brahma is destined to attain Moksha.

[Believer]

Namaste,

As Hillary would say, 'What difference does it make at this stage?'
The dead are reincarnated and are back amongst us. At what we call death, the souls merely change the bodies that they dwell in.

Pranam.

[Crane-Foot King]

The devas are eternal in as much as there is always an Indra, always an Agni, always a Vayu, etc. However, the being who occupies each post changes from one manvantara to another, as spelled out in the Puranas.

Oh. So Brahma and his progeny are mortal. The devas are kind of like empowered individuals given domain over the world.
Very interesting. There's much more to Hinduism than I thought.
I know this depends on the tradition/sect/etc but to Vaishnavites, would Shiva and Durga be mortal, to Shaivites would Vishnu and Durga be mortal, and to Shaktist would Vishnu and Shiva be mortal?

[Kalicharan Tuvij]

Asat was winning. Pani started covering Brahmanaspati.

Sati (Parvati), the Mother, belonged to both Daksha and Rudra: as the daughter of the former and as the wife of the latter. Then Darkness came. Mother, in a fit of rage and desperation, terminated her Representation in that Loka.

Sacrifice (Yagna) was thus obstructed, and Asat won, disconnecting Savitar from Brahmanaspati. Shiva took refuge in his aloofness, now that he was Rudra alone, bereft of the Mother.

Daksha, too, suffered; Vishnu rambled on like a headless chicken for some time. Vishnu collapsed back to Daksha, causing serious questions over his ability for miracles, for incarnations.

Mother's first born, Ganesh, meanwhile lost Dyava-Prithivi to Vrtra. Mother's second born, Kartikeya, suffered against Dasyus in a bloody war of Dharma over the control of Prithivi.

Shiva's family, like the four realms, disunited. Prithvi suffered. Cried for Saviour, though even that was not to be enough.

Krishna came. Against all odds.

***************************************************
here is another one
***************************************************

Shaivite said: Shiva is Brahman. And thought: I proved Shiva to be supreme.
Vaisnavite said: Vishnu is Brahman. And thought: I proved Vishnu to be supreme.
Vedantist was silent, listening. And thought: Brahman is supreme. I won.
Onlooker said: vedantist has indeed won; in the battle of the two, it is the third that gains.

[philosoraptor]

Oh. So Brahma and his progeny are mortal. The devas are kind of like empowered individuals given domain over the world.
Very interesting. There's much more to Hinduism than I thought.
I know this depends on the tradition/sect/etc but to Vaishnavites, would Shiva and Durga be mortal, to Shaivites would Vishnu and Durga be mortal, and to Shaktist would Vishnu and Shiva be mortal?

This is as per the shruti and purANas/itihAsas. But you are correct in that not all sects will accept it, especially later sects. As far as the views on Vishnu, Shiva, and Durga: Scripturally speaking, Vishnu aka nArAyaNa is immortal as He is, but then again there is another, lesser deity sometimes referred to as Vishnu so one has to take context into account. According to the Bhaagavata and Vishnu Puraanas, Shiva took his birth from the forehead of Brahma. There is a shruti which says that Shiva, like all other devas, were created by nArAyaNa, but I'm still not sure how well accepted this particular text is. There is an ongoing debate on another thread to the effect that there are probably two "Shivas," one being a mortal and the other being another form of the Lord. This again, is a sectarian belief, but it's not an unreasonable one to discuss because there is plenty of ambiguity on this subject in some places. The position on Durga may again be sect-specific. I have not come across an unequivocal reference to Durga's mortality or status as a jiva, but that seems to be implied by the references naming nArAyaNa as brahman and conscious living entities being either jIvas or the one Brahman. Then again, some Vaishnavas consider Durga to be the personified shakti of the Lord (which I have no problem with, but I would still call her a jIva in that context, just an empowered one).

[Crane-Foot King]

This is as per the shruti and purANas/itihAsas. But you are correct in that not all sects will accept it, especially later sects. As far as the views on Vishnu, Shiva, and Durga: Scripturally speaking, Vishnu aka nArAyaNa is immortal as He is, but then again there is another, lesser deity sometimes referred to as Vishnu so one has to take context into account. According to the Bhaagavata and Vishnu Puraanas, Shiva took his birth from the forehead of Brahma. There is a shruti which says that Shiva, like all other devas, were created by nArAyaNa, but I'm still not sure how well accepted this particular text is. There is an ongoing debate on another thread to the effect that there are probably two "Shivas," one being a mortal and the other being another form of the Lord. This again, is a sectarian belief, but it's not an unreasonable one to discuss because there is plenty of ambiguity on this subject in some places. The position on Durga may again be sect-specific. I have not come across an unequivocal reference to Durga's mortality or status as a jiva, but that seems to be implied by the references naming nArAyaNa as brahman and conscious living entities being either jIvas or the one Brahman. Then again, some Vaishnavas consider Durga to be the personified shakti of the Lord (which I have no problem with, but I would still call her a jIva in that context, just an empowered one).

Isn't a jiva an empowered soul?

[orlando]

Isn't a jiva an empowered soul?

http://www.harekrsna.com/philosophy/...saktyavesa.htm

[Kalicharan Tuvij]

********************
continued
********************

Pani marvelled at his work, said:
From now on, for eternity, these three- Daksha Rudra and Brahman, will continue sleeping the Death, the Asat. From now on, this Death be called Immortality, and that which is Immortality, be christened Death.

Vrtra said: I didn't understand, my Lord.

Pani: O DasyuNaresh, call me Immortal, and call them- Vishnu, Shiva and Brahma, mortal. Label anything mortal that sacrifices, tries to connect the Realms, tries to make Soma juice flow, tries to do Yoga of Evolution.

Vrtra: by what name shall I address you, then, my Lord?

Pani: call me Brahman.

Vala exclaimed: but that is cheating my Lord!

Pani: no one will ever know. This Brahman is the silent one; we can commit crimes in his name. No one will ever know.

Vrtra: I didn't understand, my Lord. Why not call you as Daksha or Rudra for that matter?

Pani: O dumb head, let me put it this way. Have you read Veda? All its Gods, the Immortal children of Aditi, are way too vocal, noisy. But this one, this Brahman, is totally mute.

Vrtra: I have read Veda, my Lord, but could not make out head or tail of it.

Vala: and I thought you, coming from a background of privilege, had refined sense and sensibility!

Vrtra: that I have; my father was XXX at king XXX's court, I have studied XXX at XXX university, I was born...

Pani: Enough. If you, the bright one, can't understand it, verily, this Veda is all gibberish.

Vrtra: So what should I teach them, the Dasyus?

Pani: Raise the gibberish to your level and taste, call it the "culmination of Veda", and preach it in the name of Veda. But know, all the while, in your inner heart, the falsity of Veda.

Vala: Veda is just ritual. Primitive thought. Its mantras, particularly the Gayatri mantra, tickle me no ends!

Vrtra: my lord, should I renounce, not marry, in order to preach?

Pani (concluding): not at all necessary, that is for the frustrated Yogis. Don't let them anywhere near the corridors of power. As for you, you will always be in company of kings. Dasyus will hate the very Gods they will worship. One would ask of his God: grant me immortality, that is, eternity of youth, eternity of lust, eternity of greed; otherwise I will not come to you again; you are, after all, just fake since Brahman alone is real.

[Kalicharan Tuvij]

*********************************************
when even Onlooker wasn't spared
*********************************************
Onlooker was agitated, anguished. A voice raised upwards from the depths of his very soul.
"Why didn't, Aditi, my beloved, Mother, you make me realise all this all these thousands of years?"

Aditi reveals herself, reveals in a form of Mother.

Aditi: did you even utter my name, once, in all these millennia?
Onlooker: no, Mother, I didn't. I am sorry.
Aditi: or, did you do the continuous Yagna of mighty Agni?
Onlooker: neither, Mother.
Aditi ( to herself): so Agni is unlit. unlit within.

Aditi: but, then, sure you did worship some of the Gods of Dyava-Prithivi?
Onlooker: I don't know anything about Dyava-Prithivi, Mother.
Aditi ( mumbles): ok. let us get to the point.

Aditi: do you offer Yagna to Bhag?
Onlooker: no, Mother. (Yagna, ritual??)
Aditi: do you offer Yagna to Varuna?
Onlooker: no, Mother. (Water God??)
Aditi: do you offer Yagna to Vayu?
Onlooker: no, Mother. (Wind??)

Aditi: oh me! How did you then defend your land, life and honour?
Onlooker: I didn't. Mother. (breaks down).
(pause)
Onlooker: but times have changed Mother. Now, in the age of Technology, children of Bharati, resourceful, talented, sure do retain an edge over Asuric forces.
Aditi: do you, then, offer Yagna to Indra?
Onlooker: no, Mother. (the pervert demi God??)
Aditi: do you offer worship to Mitra?
Onlooker: no, Mother. (Mitra devo bhavah??)
Aditi: do you offer Yagna to Marut?
Onlooker: no, Mother.
Aditi: without a clear intellect, an aesthetic depth, or an innate character, where do you stand? Does all this sound to you as some alien language? This Sanatana Dharma? What have you been upto? Forget it. Forget everything. Just tell me one thing- did you pray to Asvini Kumar?

Onlooker: no, Mother, no. I have no idea who the Asvini Kumar is. All that I cared about was Moksha, Nirvana, Liberation. Or that is what I was told about. Oh, I am so confused! Oh, all this Moksha baggage, and with that a life lived of Dasyu, even death doesn't liberate.

Aditi: wake up. This the last call.
Aditi ( mumbles): teach Moksha to enemies. (goes)