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Thread: Schrodinger's Cat

  1. #11

    Re: Schrodinger's Cat

    हरिः ओम्


    Namaste AG,

    Who are the "they" to whom you refer?
    It is key to certain schools of Hindu philosophy, that one must fully understand the differance
    between inferred and direct knowledge of something.

    They, in the negative, is often deemed to be quite delusional. I am not insinuating anything, I
    purely wish to highlight a point that I consider to be important. Please don't take offence.

    Given the current statistic offered to us by the publication "nature"; figures for 2012 were that
    60% of the papers offered for publication were rejected, due to falsification of data. Perhaps the
    scientific community could consider adopting a practis of the Yoga Sūtras? To aid practitioners
    in the art of discernment, to perceive reality more clearly?
    This would certainly make economic sense!
    Emotion does get in the way some what, regardless of our ability to perceive it, when one so
    desperately wants something to be true ...

    http://www.nature.com/news/misconduct-is-the-main-cause-of-life-sciences-retractions-1.11507

    http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/...l.pmed.0020124

    My sister, as the editor of scientific journal; confirms a similar statistic in her employers publication.



    praṇāma

    mana



    ॐ नमः शिवाय
    Last edited by Mana; 13 February 2013 at 11:24 AM.

  2. #12
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    Re: Schrodinger's Cat

    Hello Mana - I hope you're well.

    If the papers you speak of were rejected due to falsification of data, then doesn't that attest to integrity of science?

    This is why we have such a strict peer review when accepting any new scientific findings. Let's not also forget that it's scientists who reject these papers in the first place.

    Thanks,
    AG

  3. #13

    Re: Schrodinger's Cat

    हरिः ओम्


    Namaste AG,

    With all due respect, I am not sure that you are fully aware of the extent to which scientific paradigms are shifting at this time.
    If one is "scientifically analytical" or discerning; one may well conclude that money has more relevance than pier review
    in the current system. Pier review comes after economics ... Please refer to the question of mathematical language.


    Science would benefit now by analysing the self and the scientist, asking why this is happening in such a destabilising manor?
    It is not conducive to a stable society, for which scientists seem to shun any responsibility. Could this explain the alarmingly high
    rates of autism in self segregated scientific community?


    What do you do AG?


    praṇāma


    mana


    ॐ नमः शिवाय
    Last edited by Mana; 14 February 2013 at 02:13 AM.

  4. #14
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    Re: Schrodinger's Cat

    Scientists certainly aren't out to make money (after all, with our skills we could make way more money as engineers). However I will say that research in the scientific community is driven more by grant funding than by novel ideas. You see, when a professor at a university applies for a grant, the university applies a sort of "tax." The university typically recieves about half of the grant money under the guise of overhead, and in fact most grant writers these days just build the extra expenditure into their proposals. When applying to a tenure track professorship, you'd better not propose too original of an idea. If the selection comittee doesn't think it's safe, you won't get hired. Crazy ideas need to wait until after you're tenured.

    This isn't an entirely bad idea. It is, after all, best to prove that you're a good researcher before you're allowed to investigate your own theories. But in a very real sense, money does drive scientific research. I just want to be clear that "money" shouldn't be equated with personal gain. Most professors I know live comfortably, but not lavishly.

    (Except my thesis advisor. He's pretty loaded, and I have no idea how he pulled that off. But hey, more power to him!)

  5. #15

    Re: Schrodinger's Cat

    हरिः ओम्


    Namaste,


    I am fully aware that scientists are not in it for the money and that most are simply passionate about their fields.

    But for some its more about the fame, I have it from a reliable source that it is rather akin to Hollywood, and many
    of the top slots behave as if they are rockstars, dreams of making the history books all over the place, quite a few Ego's.
    (Not my description, this came from a scientist).

    Perhaps your boss dabbles in the the futures market?


    praṇāma

    mana


    ॐ नमः शिवाय
    Last edited by Mana; 15 February 2013 at 08:20 AM.

  6. #16
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    Re: Schrodinger's Cat

    Quote Originally Posted by Mana View Post
    हरिः ओम्


    Namaste,


    I am fully aware that scientists are not in it for the money and that most are simply passionate about their fields.

    But for some its more about the fame, I have it from a reliable source that it is rather akin to Hollywood, and many
    of the top slots behave as if they are rockstars, dreams of making the history books all over the place, quite a few Ego's.
    (Not my description, this came from a scientist).

    Perhaps your boss dabbles in the the futures market?


    praṇāma

    mana


    ॐ नमः शिवाय
    The problem here is that you're judging a whole profession based on a few 'top slots'. Here's the thing Mana, I agree that there are some very big egos in science (Dr. Michio Kaku being a huge example), but that's his job now. He's not getting top dollar teaching at City College in NY, he's getting paid by TV Networks. That said, he's not out there knowingly making false statements to benefit some ulterior motive or falsifying data to protect a mysterious inner sanctum.

    It's not fair to judge ALL scientists on the celebrity status of a sub-iota, which is what your posts strongly suggest. The percentage of scientists you're talking about is so low, that they don't warrant any form of generalization on your part, or a place in this conversation. This is unless of course, we're specifically talking about a published paper of theirs. Even you can agree with this, right?

    AG

  7. #17
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    Re: Schrodinger's Cat

    Quote Originally Posted by Mana View Post
    But for some its more about the fame, I have it from a reliable source that it is rather akin to Hollywood, and many
    of the top slots behave as if they are rockstars, dreams of making the history books all over the place, quite a few Ego's.
    (Not my description, this came from a scientist).
    Oh sure, the smarter ones usually have egos. Usually though, it's pretty well justified. There's a guy I see pretty regularly at conferences; one of the more well-known theorists in the field. He thinks he's all that and regularly makes condescending remarks to graduate students. The thing is though, he really is all that. Can't blame a guy for having an accurate impression of himself, I suppose.

    Obviously I don't really condone being condescending. But I will say that scientists are obsessed with making sure their statements are true before they make them. For people who don't obey a lot of moral code that we Hindus would adhere to, these guys have remarkable integrity when it comes to intellectual honesty. I wouldn't trust most of the smart ones to watch my kid or dog (if I had either of those), but I'll certainly trust every paper they publish.

  8. #18

    Re: Schrodinger's Cat

    हरिः ओम्


    Namaste AG,


    Please read my first statement "I am fully aware that scientists are not in it for the money and that most are simply passionate about their fields".

    Now on what are you basing your sweeping hypothesis; mine is from the observational evidence of the Editor in chief of a scientific journal and
    I've already posted links to papers
    in which the scientific community is admitting that their is a problem.

    There are others areas in which their have been confessions as to the problem of the phd arena today; and also the problems with mentor ship.
    So, I am afraid that your argument with no substantiation, appears to me to be gas lit.

    Any thought on why mathematical vision, which self proofs, is often so far ahead of physical and theoretical science?
    Still not a word of your thoughts on that.



    praṇāma

    mana


    ॐ नमः शिवाय
    Last edited by Mana; 16 February 2013 at 04:01 AM.

  9. #19

    Re: Schrodinger's Cat

    हरिः ओम्


    Namaste sanjaya,


    The thing is that the ego blinds (quantum slit analogy) and the aggressive arrogance stops those of a humble nature from getting through,
    their ideas are just as good, often better, and are much less self serving. This has been recently depicted in western psychology by the right
    left brain analogy.

    Now that's an ancient notion in Jyotish shown by Venus and Jupiter, more globally the Sun and the Moon; so we need to turn to
    psychology for the Western scientific model; as your science is a little more differentiated than mine.
    It would be good at this time also that you look at "Gas lighting" also so that we might address the problem of suspension of reality, or
    projection of the self. So as to see how this affects the direction of scientific thought.

    You are aware of the Hubble fiasco I presume?

    praṇāma

    mana



    ॐ नमः शिवाय
    Last edited by Mana; 16 February 2013 at 11:13 AM.

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