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Thread: Questions on Karma

  1. #1
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    Questions on Karma

    Namaste All,
    After a long break here is my post. I have the following questions on Karma.

    In karma - the action is important or volition/intention is important? Which one leads to what? Like if my volition is good but action is bad will I accrue bad karma or vice versa?

    Karma seems very elusive. Is it the same as Buddha taught - 'as you sow shall you reap'?

    Which schools of Indian philosophy refute karma (I forgot..read somewhere)? In such cases how do they explain creation or death and rebirth? (assuming they believe in those things)

    This might seem puny for many here but requesting answers from experts

    Thanks
    ॐ महेश्वराय नमः

    || Om Namo Bhagavate Rudraya ||

    Hara Hara Mahadeva Shambo Shankara

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    Re: Questions on Karma

    Namaste,

    I am not an expert member but thought I will give a reference here:

    Reference to karma from a Jyotish group: From http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sohamsa/message/28132 :

    "Valmiki Ramayana cleanly laid down the dictum several times in the text
    that the events in the native's life are the outcome four factors-
    1. Vidhata 2. Prarabdha 3. Daiva -unknown causes ( refer sloka 14 ch 7 and
    . sloka 14 of ch 18 of Gita) 4. Kala.
    When Shri Lakshman ji was very angry on his father on 14 years of Vanvas,
    Shri Rama explained in one full chapter in Valmiki Ramayana , that problems
    arising out from Daivya are to be endured only.
    This concept explained in very balanced manner in Chapter 18 sloka 14 of Gita.
    In Astrology we can ascertain Prarabdha only from birth chart.
    Even there are many Rajyoga's where it is clearly said that this
    yoga will make person to live in kingly manner if born in kings
    family."

    From the above, we know that the above mentioned four factors come into play in determining the karma of an individual.
    Last edited by Viraja; 29 January 2013 at 12:21 PM.
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

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    Re: Questions on Karma

    thanks Aspirant01 for your reply.

    wundermonk, yajvan ji and devotee ji ..any replies..would be grateful.
    ॐ महेश्वराय नमः

    || Om Namo Bhagavate Rudraya ||

    Hara Hara Mahadeva Shambo Shankara

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    Re: Questions on Karma

    Namaste RDG,

    Quote Originally Posted by realdemigod View Post
    [FONT="Tahoma"]
    In karma - the action is important or volition/intention is important? Which one leads to what? Like if my volition is good but action is bad will I accrue bad karma or vice versa?
    Bhagwad Gita tells us that "an action may be actually inaction and accordingly an inaction may be actually action". How is that possible ? It depends upon your motive behind the action and attachment to the result of that action or the absence of it. Killing any person or any being accrues sin but it doesn't accrue sin if an army man kills his enemies in war to safeguard his country as his duty. If one kills another person for his own material gains, he accrues sin as a valuable life is terminated for selfish motives. If you desire to rob a person and couldn't do it due to lack of instruments required, you still accrue sins for harboring such thoughts. If gift USD 1000,000 to a person for showing your wealth to others or for getting publicity ... it doesn't get you much merit ... but if you offer even one time food to a hungry person, it accrues great merits. So, Karma is a very complicated issue. That is why we should act as per our Dharma and as advised by Shastras and Guru.

    Karma seems very elusive. Is it the same as Buddha taught - 'as you sow shall you reap'?
    Yes, it is the same thing. However, Karma is done by physical action, mind and also speech. So, the correct meaning of Buddha's saying has to be understood keeping that in mind.

    Which schools of Indian philosophy refute karma (I forgot..read somewhere)? In such cases how do they explain creation or death and rebirth? (assuming they believe in those things)
    I am not sure. Perhaps the CharvAks didn't believe in Karma and also rebirths.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: Questions on Karma

    Thanks devotee ji
    ॐ महेश्वराय नमः

    || Om Namo Bhagavate Rudraya ||

    Hara Hara Mahadeva Shambo Shankara

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    Re: Questions on Karma

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namast
    Quote Originally Posted by realdemigod View Post
    In karma - the action is important or volition/intention is important? Which one leads to what? Like if my volition is good but action is bad will I accrue bad karma or vice versa?
    Karma seems very elusive.
    karma = karman = action, special duty , occupation , obligation; Word, deed, action and reaction. We are told ( in general ) there are 4 kinds:
    • nirvartya - when anything new is produced
    • vikārya - when change is implied either of the substance and form
    • prāpya - when any desired object is attained
    • anīpsita - when an undesired object is abandoned
    Yet one needs to get comfortable that all actions produce impressions... the actions can be good or not good. Impressions are formed. It is this action-impression-action that impels more actions. Let me explain by an example:
    One runs a business and during the week of business has a loss in sales. To him/her this is not good and an impression ( vāsana) is made in the mind. Note this too can be the condition of a great sales week, an abundence of money, this too makes an impression upon the mind, but for this example lets us the 'loss' scenerio.
    A deep impression is made; a mark of a loss. This vāsana within the shopkeeper is revisited or comes to the surface as a desire to recoup his losses when favorable conditions occur ( more cutomers, a festival season, or even the next week of busines to 'work harder and longer'). This resurfacing of this vāsana is a desire - a desire to make up, regain, move forward, make whole again any loss incurred. The impression in the mind is the seed of desire ( to regain) which leads to actions.

    Now, we have another wave of actions ( more effort at his shop , more hours to work, etc) - these lead to more impressions and the cycle continues. Note all the impressions that one may take on?

    To improve one's business, to get that new house, to grow the family, to move to a more siblime neibhorhood, to enter grad school, to get a green card, to have that big vacation, a new car-bike-girl or boy friend, all the desires that lead to impressions fulfilled or unfulfilled are deposited like seeds in a field .
    The cycle continues and 'spills over' into other lives - hurling us forward again and gain to quench that desire. Here is the binding influence of action. In-and-of-itself it has no motive, the motive manifests in our desires.

    And what of desires ?
    Look to the bhāgavad gītā , chapter 5, the 23rd śloka in this light:

    He who is able even here before liberation from the body, to resist
    the excitement born of desire and anger is united with the divine.
    He is a happy man.

    Yet we must not pass up the following, kṛṣṇa informs us in the bhāgavad gītā 3.37 :
    It is desire, it is anger, born of rago-guna, all consuming and most evil; know this to be the enemy here on earth.

    Here in this śloka both anger and desire stand accused by the Lord. This śloka becomes a reference point throughout the ages that 'desires are bad' . This needs to be discussed - the difference is in seeing (darśana) and not seeing (adarśana).
    This śloka applies to the person that remains in ignorance. 'Seeing' one knows the truth that all actions are a function of the 3 guna-s (bhāgavad gītā 3.27); 'Not seeing' deposits us to the bhāgavad gītā 3.37. The Lord is kind enough to take apart how this whole structure works
    in very comprehensive terms.
    What we need to be aware of is desires keeps us floating in the cycle of cause-and-effect and overshadows the purity of the Self (ātma). Kṛṣṇa says it this way in the next śloka: This is covered by that.

    This ( pure awareness, pure Self, ātma) is covered by 'that'; 'that' being desires and the field of relative existence. He helps us by giving other examples 'like a mirror covered by dust' or 'an embryo covered by amnion'
    or 'smoke covered by fire' .

    So what does one do with these desires? One way is to replace smaller desires with a magnanimous noble desire. My teacher would say its like removing a thorn in one's finger with another thorn.
    What would be that other desire? Removing ignorance that blocks the full rays of the Self.


    iti śivaṁ

    words
    4 kinds - yet there are other ways of looking at this also. Actions done in the past, the present , and those yet to come i.e. karma-pāka those actions that are ripening & growing.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Questions on Karma

    Thanks yajvan ji.
    ॐ महेश्वराय नमः

    || Om Namo Bhagavate Rudraya ||

    Hara Hara Mahadeva Shambo Shankara

  8. #8

    Re: Questions on Karma

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Namaste RDG,
    I am not sure. Perhaps the CharvAks didn't believe in Karma and also rebirths.

    OM
    That is correct. The Lokayata position is to not accept anything without evidence and therefore they rejected the concept of a soul, which was entirely based on faith.

    And without a soul, there can be neither Karma nor reincarnation.
    http://lokayata.info
    http://shivsomashekhar.wordpress.com/category/history/

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    Re: Questions on Karma

    Quote Originally Posted by shiv.somashekhar View Post
    That is correct. The Lokayata position is to not accept anything without evidence and therefore they rejected the concept of a soul, which was entirely based on faith.
    As was standard in Indian Philosophical circles, a variety of rational objections can be (and were) raised against the above view.

    Firstly, the charvaka has to define what exactly he is denying. If soul does not exist (as the charvaka believed) what exactly is he negating? What is the negation of "sdfasdpuqer"? How is "sdfasdpuqer" different from invisible pink unicorn and how are "sdfasdpuqer" and invisible pink unicorn different from this "soul"? How is the non-existence of a "soul" different from the non-existence of "sdfasdpuqer"?

    Next, what evidence does the Charvaka put forth to believe that the afterlife does not exist?

    Next, why does the Charvaka eat food to satiate his hunger? If it is based on induction, the Charvaka position is itself undermined as he unwittingly believe in induction. This leads to belief-behaviour conflict and the Charvaka can be rightly accused of hypocrisy - preach one thing but practise another, a.k.a. "Do as I say, not as I do!"

    If it is based on perception the Charvaka should clarify how he has reached the conclusion that food satisfies hunger.

  10. #10

    Re: Questions on Karma

    Quote Originally Posted by shiv.somashekhar View Post
    That is correct. The Lokayata position is to not accept anything without evidence and therefore they rejected the concept of a soul, which was entirely based on faith.

    And without a soul, there can be neither Karma nor reincarnation.
    In that case, how do the lokayatas account for the phenomenon of consciousness?
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

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