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Thread: how is turiya blissful?

  1. #11

    Re: how is turiya blissful?

    Namaste

    As others have explained on this thread, Turiya is not a state as such says MAndukya Up. It is the foundation Atma tattva that allows waking, dream and sleep.
    TurIyAtIta (beyond / transcendental) can be called a state.

    I think a better qn would be "Is samAdhi blissful"?
    SamAdhi can be very very restful and peaceful OR very blissful depending on the type.

    Samadhi on NirAkAr(formless) brings BramhAnanda,
    Samadhi on & with the Supreme Person (& His associates) brings LeelAnanda.

    It is either blissful or peaceful, particularly if you notice it involuntarily - i.e. there is no effort. In both cases, you need not be sitting in one place with eyes closed. You are in the world but not of it.


    -- When engaged in the material world, the mind is "behind the steering wheel", driving rashly, or gracefully, peacefully, dutifuly, responsibily, racing,getting mad at other [drivers] - depending on the 3 modes of nature.

    1. In nirAkAr samadhi (formless) - no thoughts as such, the car is in parking. One need not wake out of it to know it was peaceful.
    You may feel the extreme peace during. Why? Because there is no burden of the need for thinking like in the material world, but awareness is there owing to the turIya - witnessing atma. To exist in the world and perform basic duties, responsibilities, you have to think, worry, get surprised, be cautious. It is tiring. So you immediately see/feel the contrast. The question is how engaging is it going to be after the mind has had full rest.

    2. Bhakti-samAdhi is involuntarily stepping straight in the abode of the Supreme Person, God, or just perpetually being with Him. There is no effort on your side, as everything is just happening.
    and it is as if you are "going/being taken for a ride in the chariot", but not driving. As opposed to the material world, where the mind is working and working.
    Here, you are not dreaming it up with mind as active instrument. It is happening.
    In VaishNav or bhakti language we call it smaraNam in the prior stage
    and the ripe stage may be called turIyAtIta. God consciousness. Serving the Supreme Person (BhagavAn, God) - BHAKTI in its real true form.

    _/\_

    Om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya ~
    Last edited by smaranam; 02 February 2013 at 05:44 AM.
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  2. #12

    Re: how is turiya blissful?

    These are some very helpful explanations but I have one more question. Awareness, the Self, is always present. But it seems as though we have the capacity to choose what we pay attention to. Am I correct in understanding that Awareness isn't actively choosing to become aware of something, such as fixating on a mantra, but it is the mind that is fixating attention on something?
    asato ma sad gamaya
    tamaso ma jyotir gamaya
    mrutyor ma amritam gamaya

  3. #13
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    Re: how is turiya blissful?

    Quote Originally Posted by seekinganswers View Post
    These are some very helpful explanations but I have one more question. Awareness, the Self, is always present. But it seems as though we have the capacity to choose what we pay attention to. Am I correct in understanding that Awareness isn't actively choosing to become aware of something, such as fixating on a mantra, but it is the mind that is fixating attention on something?
    Yes. Pure Awareness is not choosing to be aware of anything else. there is no second one

    Mind is fixing it's attention.

    In day-2-day language, we say, I am Aware.

    This is not the same as that of Brahman - Pure awareness.

    But by being aware, we dis-associate and detach from which is not 'I' by focusing on mantra.

    Later on the chanting, which is mental and a karma (on subtle ground), changing from effort to effortless.

    This awareness makes it effortless.

    How?

    By repeated chanting, and by grace of God and Guru, mantra continues by itself. So one has to just be aware of mantra. By being aware of mantra (and not chanting it), you have a chance to be aware of it's source. The source of mantra is Atman / Brahman. Mantra begins and ends or terminates in it's source.

    Since you are not doing any karma, nor using any of the 5 senses, so you are not doing any karma. Hence there is transformation from effort to effortless.

    Later on, mind and thoughts float inside this awareness. You are detached. You feel constant bliss and deep peace. Everything just dissolves into source. Mind melts into the source (of mantra and / or thoughts)

    Aum
    IS
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

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    Re: how is turiya blissful?

    Quote Originally Posted by seekinganswers View Post
    These are some very helpful explanations but I have one more question. Awareness, the Self, is always present. But it seems as though we have the capacity to choose what we pay attention to. Am I correct in understanding that Awareness isn't actively choosing to become aware of something, such as fixating on a mantra, but it is the mind that is fixating attention on something?
    Dear seekinganswers,

    Each time the mind becomes aware of a concept there arises along with it a witnessing consciousness of the concept as the agent of its knower.

    This agent is recognized as "I".

    In the process of relating the concept to a precept, and after such objectivization, relation is established between the subject "I" and the objectivized concept-precept complex.

    It is in such an interrelationship of concept, percept and the agent of awareness that knowledge is experienced.

    ************

    Please refer to various perception such as
    Vishayagatha Pratyaksha, Jnanagatha Pratykasha,
    Savikalpa Pratyakasha and Nirvikalpa Pratyaksha for a deeper understanding of this subject.
    Reference: Vedanta Paribhasha of Dharmaraja Advarindra
    ------------
    Also the classification of perceptions such as Pratyaksham, Apratyaksham, Aparoksham and parokshm.
    Reference: Sankara's Aproksha Anubhoti.

    Love

  5. #15

    Thumbs Up Re: how is turiya blissful?

    Thank you very much. The two posts above helped answer the question of selected mental attention vs pure consciousness.



    Peace
    asato ma sad gamaya
    tamaso ma jyotir gamaya
    mrutyor ma amritam gamaya

  6. #16
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    Re: how is turiya blissful?

     
    hari
    o
    ~~~~~~
    namast


    Quote Originally Posted by Indiaspirituality View Post
    Atman is Sat-Chit-Ananda
    Yes, you are correct saying this, but be aware this is the vedāntic POV. This does not infer ( by me) that it is wrong. If we compare this to kaśmir śaivism 'sat' is not mentioned as a ~ quality~ because it is the very core of the Supreme, why mention it ( they say).

    iti śiva

    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  7. #17
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    Re: how is turiya blissful?

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
     
    hari
    o
    ~~~~~~
    namast




    Yes, you are correct saying this, but be aware this is the vedāntic POV. This does not infer ( by me) that it is wrong. If we compare this to kaśmir śaivism 'sat' is not mentioned as a ~ quality~ because it is the very core of the Supreme, why mention it ( they say).

    iti śiva
    Namaste,

    I agree ... and it's from Advaita Standpoint. No offenses either. Taken positively

    These qualities are only described because our mind needs something to visualize and to compare. Atman is beyond mind and so experience and comparison is possible.

    We are taught, I am not this, not this, not this ... then the question arises ... Then Who Am I?

    So they say, Atman is AkASavata (aakaashvata)- It is not AkASa (aakaasha). It is like AkASa, very subtle and spreads entire cosmos. Even air takes AdhAra of akasha. Air moves inside AkASa.

    Amtan is prakASa svarUpa - meaning, Just like prakASa has the nature to give knowledge (you can see things in light, but not in dark) or since prakASa symbolizes knowledge, similarly Atman is knowledge. Atman is not prakASa (light)

    So if I say that - I am experiencing Ananda, then I am still experiencing. So I am not in Atma-Sthiti

    So we can say that Sat-Chit-Ananda is not separate from Atman.

    Like in Vivekchudamani Adi shankara explains Shat-Sampatti. It is also said that you realize Jnana only when you do not expect anything. So the tools (sAdhana) to reach Atman are not separate from them.

    Sama and dama: Total control over mind and 5 senses can only be achieved in atma shiti. So only atman has perfect control.

    UparatI: Only Atma-Jnani can be uparAma from everything that is not atman.

    TitikshA: Only Atma-Jnani can always stay neutral in good and bad (favourable and un-favourable) circumstances.

    ShraddhA: Another name of Atma-Jnani is brahma-nIshTa (brahmanishtha)

    samAdhAna: Only Atma-Jnani can stay in samAdhAna.

    So the tools of Jnana are not separate from them.

    words
    nISTA = shraddhA = faith. Firm faith that - I am Brahman.

    Aum

    Source: Discourse on Vivek Chudamani by Swami Tadrupanand (of Manan Ashram)
    Last edited by Amrut; 10 February 2013 at 02:48 AM. Reason: typo errors
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  8. #18
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    Re: how is turiya blissful?

    Quote Originally Posted by seekinganswers View Post
    Thank you very much. The two posts above helped answer the question of selected mental attention vs pure consciousness.



    Peace
    Brother / Sister you are welcome

    __/ \__
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  9. #19

    Re: how is turiya blissful?

    I want to thank every one to help me understanding turiya better by answering in that post.

    I will go on trying to experience deep sleep or turiya by meditating in sleep and dream.

    I wish you all the best.

    greetings

    Tobias

  10. #20

    Re: how is turiya blissful?

    I think peace and love are the two essential qualities of God and together make bliss. I think turiya's description as pure awareness suggests it's immense peace. I think it's also immense love and is superconsciousness, not unconsciousness!

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