Advaita Viewpoint On Spiritual Worlds.

[Amrut]

last part

When you are in contact with higher souls, arch-angels, angels, spirit guides, or any energy, you mind remains active. The purpose of spirituality is is to mind. This purpose is defeated.

As far as advaita is concerned, you will never be out of duality.

Similarly, to serve, someone has to be there to be served - again always withing duality

To explore, you will be lost in maya, in inner universe - again, mind remains active - engaged in exploration

In all above cases, the purpose is defeated, atleast from Advaita POV

Caution: Once you enter deep into this energy phenomenon, after some years, you may not be able to come out of it.

Again, Just to remind you, advaita does not endorse these activities, it neglects it (i.e. the purpose of denying is to neglect and decrease importance in the mind of disciple, so that he will not be distracted).

Else if you say, that upon self realization, world disappears, then even if one person is realized, this world will vanish.

Infact nothing changes but your vision (you have jnana dristi)

So it would be correct to say

In Jnana sthiti or dristi - samsara is negated (bAdha or baadha)

In state of Self Realization, world is absent, negated.

I hope this is helpful.

Aum
IS

[Spirit Seeker]

@Omkara and anyone else. It's not so much that I'm that "confused", rather I have difficultys expressing or conveying what it is exactly is on my mind, how I process it, and then how I convey or express it, even writing it down right now. As I do have a mental syndrome where there is disconnect from what is on my mind, and how I "Put it out". So I hope not to come off the wrong way.


I just had to put that out there, if anyone has trouble understanding me... So I thank you all for your patience. Thank you omkara I have saved those articles.

Namaste SS,

I am amazed if you find it so simple ! My dear friend, if it was that simple to understand, Bheda-abheda Achintya swaroop and Vishishta Advaita would have no place in VedAnta schools ! I am a practising Advaitin and I find it a difficult model to explain and you say that it is easy ! That is something highly surprising.

Namaste Devotee and thank you for having the patience for this discussion. I am no stranger to the experience of "Oneness" I guess like Omkara brought up, my view would be closest to that of vishdaivata, which I have been looking more into. Although I know nothing of True Advaita as Hinduism presents it, I know your learning in the traditional way, and I respect that, I didnt mean to come off as "Holier then thou", but you and I both know, when one goes through such experiences, it is beyond any word that can describe it. So I guess I can only say I know from some experience, and I dont really see it as "Complex" because it simply "Is".. Aside from how advaita presents it anyways. But that doesn't stop for that as long as I continue to live, I will continue learning.

I hope I'm making sense.

You have not read my post carefully. From any person's position, the disembodied beings are as real as the person is.

I apologize for completely missing, I have read your post several times, as I do try to analyze context, in such discussions, context is what's important to see from what standpoint, the individual approaches the reality, of a particular situation, experience, or the larger reality as a Whole.

Can I ask, to what degree do you accept that these beings are real? Can a spiritual being in your view be just as "real" as Spongebob Squarepants or Mickey Mouse? From my understanding and my background. There are varying degrees of spiritual beings. There are beings. Spirits, that Exist Within, of and are a part of conciousness, which gives them a direct link to an individual that has a spiritual vibration and frequency on their level.. Meaning Like can attract like. Spiritually Enlightened people can attract Positive beings of Conciousness, While The Opposites, can attract the negatives, or dual etc.

The other being of that Nature spirits, Elementals, Jinns etc, whatever a person chooses to call them are made of a different matter composition, Darker Matter, Dark Plasma, See Dark Plasma Theory here: http://www.dapla.org/pdf/dplife.pdf

Regardless of a persons belief or lack of belief, these beings are always around us, They are not "Of" conciousness directly similiar to we are, they simply exist on a different vibrational frequency in a semi-corporal form, unseen all around us. They are not eternal, they live and die just as we do.

The more you believe in them, the more they affect you.

This is part of what I was directing at, as to why I brought this topic up, from the standpoint of monism( Most I have come across). That "They can only exist and affect you if you believe in them"

I know there is a popular saying, "Seeing is believing", which demonstrates that one needs to believe and have faith, in order to see and experience these sort of things. But for some people such as Myself it is the reverse.

Being a materialistic agnostic(Which gives one the benefit of "Blocking" these things out), I couldnt become a believer, until I Seen, Experienced, and Verified. From that point on, it was impossible to go back to my old self. My Ego and everything I knew about what I thought was reality was shattered, I havent been the 'same' since.

So my theory is, that a persons belief system in their own mind, can filter, and influence how they interpret an energy/spirit, but it does not change the energy objectivly for what it is. People who trap themselves in their left brain, can still feel the influence or sensation of external spiritual energies even in every day life, but being the non-believers that they are, they would just attempt to rationalize it, or just conclude that it was "themself" projecting.

Also, these disembodied souls are not very high spiritual beings otherwise they won't disturb people. So, if you are at a lower spiritual status, they may affect you more.

I disagree, but I would just agree to disagree so our discussion doesnt go far off course. Although, I do agree, that the "average joe" has a higher chance of dealing with oppresion and having their life intruded.

As for the spiritual status, I dont really see it as Linear Hierarchical. To me they simply "are". As to why they disturb people, if they are non-human, I try not to project my human understanding on their very being. Their nature is simply indifferent. Like we are to insects, plants, trees, critters, all "lesser life" in order for mankinds selfish ways to continue to exist and evolve. Like they are to us. You cant force a lion to become a vegeterian, they need to sustain their existence. It's part of the cycle of life.

I beg to ask considering any entity of a different nature, how can it truly understand "good" from the stand point of being a human being that it is not?

The disembodied soul is just like you and me except that it has no physical body but has subtle body. It may be your ancestor who is still not liberated from the cycles of life and death and also that it has not taken birth.

I understand now.

The terms "Real" or "Unreal", and sayings like "I am Brahman", "Everything is Brahman" ... have different meanings in different states of existence. Whatever is "Real" in waking state may be "unreal" from the "Absolute" point of view. Everything is Brahman ... if you take it literally and approach a "Tiger Brahman" or "Cobra Brahman" who is hungry/angry then you are in serious trouble.

Both Coal and diamond are carbon i.e. they are essentially same. So, will you sell your diamonds at the price of coal ?

I see, and Thank you.

[Spirit Seeker]

Namaste.

Growing up on the island of Bali, Indonesia, I had the chance to witness and be part of this Hindu tradition incorporating Animist beliefs.

Yes, of course Agama and Ancestor worship are a total dichotomy to even try and make any sense of...yet, here I was praying to 'nothing' for all those restless souls in purgatory.

I am a 'Spiritualist' in the sense of being a Theosophist and I'm a student of Advaita Vedanta.

If I wanted to get all hard core about it, I can say that in the Light of Ultimate Reality, everything is Maya/Illusion. This World, the Spirit World, Heaven, Hell...even illusion itself (that's a really big hurdle to jump). We can say 'neti neti' and becone nihilists of the known universe...OR

We can go 'Sarvam Iti' and yeah, everything is Brahman now, all the Worlds, Maya, God...

Do these Worlds/Souls exist? who knows?

Maybe souls exist on another 'World' or maybe they have been reborn onto this one in another form. We cannot begin to understand what Karma has in store for us...you may be praying for your dead uncle who is now a little girl in Poland.

Aum Namah Shivaya

Hi thanks for the response. Yes my spiritual background carries heavy animist elements. The Veneration of Nature, The universal Elements, and those that walk among it seen and unseen. I equally have High Respect for The Living, Dead, and those "creatures" that exist in those "In-between" States of Physical Matter and Conciousness energy.

I cant help but bring this topic up as I feel that these discussions are under-rated because for what I take for granted, these things are not an "Every day Reality" to most. Most think that it is "weird" even if they do claim to be spiritual or religious. It is something that is not discussed often.(Aside From New Age.)

For Reincarnation, I believe that the soul and spirit are linked but distinct.(Insert your own hindu terms to replace). In african reincarnation, a Person who's passed can merge with the collective ancestral energy, Still remain a spirit, while simultaniously incarnating into earthly flesh. They often believe they come back as Family Members.

The brain is simply a bio electrical antenna which takes these signals from the Higher self/Astral Self/Soul/Whatever and process them into thoughts, emotion, feeling and actions, etc...It generates the spirit, your mind, your thoughts, your personality, your being. It is the one that is Human, and remains with it's perceived gender .(In form) It is like a sponge that absorbs and leaves traces of itself everywhere and it covers the soul. One's own perceived individuality.

So for those who speak to the dead, if a person were to die as a child for example, their spirit will always remain that of a child(in perceived form), but instead their personal identities will nevertheless be drastically altered, no longer having the same constructs and algorithms guiding their thought processing. So while maintaining child-like mannerisms, they have plenty of room to spiritually evolve if they so choose.

Spiritual evolving meaning "going to heaven", Re-merging with the Soul(group), or simply cutting loose all ties to the collective physical reality forever.

When one dies their soul is poured one soul into another, 5 people, 10 people, 20 people, a 100 people, but of course the more that is poured out, the less they share your exact ethereal energy, but they still share you nevertheless.

[Spirit Seeker]

Dear S.Seeker,




It finds its own distinction at the level of the normative notion of the Absolute.

Please Read>>




It is not really clear from your posts. kindly include your philosophical view points on

• Reality
  
• The cosmic System
  
• Creation
  
• Souls
  
• Reason for Bondage of the souls
  
• Karma/ Action
  
• Spiritual practices if any
  
• Liberation etc..

Love

Namaste Brahman.
[*]Reality: Honestly Not sure, Or unsure how to describe this. If generally speaking, I'm still learning, and willing to compromise my views(Although I can never turn my back on my experiences)

I honestly have no dang clue "what" reality" is, I'm just enjoying the ride.
[*]Creation:
I believe like most hindus here that the universe is infinite.(Beyond the observable physical universe) It has always existed, will continue to exist, because it must exist. It exists because it "Just does".
[*]The cosmic System: There are no Heirarchal forces, aside from human perceptual limitation, or 'convenience' for the lack of a better world.

Only God is the greatest, Supreme, and most high. Everything "Below", All between heaven and earth and creation are 'equal'.
[*]Souls : Similiar to Atma, And self. But I now have a better understanding of it with it's relationship towards the Jeeva, as described in Hinduism.
[*]Karma/ Action:
I believe Karma is "Cause And Effect" rather then "What goes around, comes around". I strongly Believe, how we live this life, and how we practice our beliefs, will have a huge impact on "where we will go" when the next life comes around.
[*]Spiritual practices if any:
Ritual, Veneration Of ancestors, The Dead, Anthropomorphic Deity's(Lesser Gods), Celestial Forces/Spirits that represent different aspects of nature some see as personifications or extensions, Animal Sacrafice.
[*]Liberation etc..:

I'm not sure what this means. Does it have to be similar to obtaining "Moksha"?

Blessings!

[Spirit Seeker]

Namaste Indiaspirituality, My Jaw dropped. I aplogize If I cant come up with a good long enough response to go along with everything you just posted as you made sure to have hit it in every angle.

I thank you and devotee for your patience, and I thank you for giving me a better grasp of advaita, even though for me this is just the tip of the iceberg of what Advaita has to offer.

I highly appreciate and am grateful for you taking the time to write all this out. You have a friend in me.

Brightest THanks! Thank you all for your help.

Blessings.

[devotee]

Namaste SS,

Can I ask, to what degree do you accept that these beings are real? Can a spiritual being in your view be just as "real" as Spongebob Squarepants or Mickey Mouse?

Are you as real as Spongebob squarepants or Mickey Mouse ?

The other being of that Nature spirits, Elementals, Jinns etc, whatever a person chooses to call them are made of a different matter composition, Darker Matter, Dark Plasma, See Dark Plasma Theory here: http://www.dapla.org/pdf/dplife.pdf

These things do exist as we exist, if that satisfies you.

Regardless of a persons belief or lack of belief, these beings are always around us, They are not "Of" conciousness directly similiar to we are, they simply exist on a different vibrational frequency in a semi-corporal form, unseen all around us. They are not eternal, they live and die just as we do.

It is better if you are not involved with these entities unless they are spiritually developed spirits. You gather the spiritual vibrations of "beings" around you.

This is part of what I was directing at, as to why I brought this topic up, from the standpoint of monism( Most I have come across). That "They can only exist and affect you if you believe in them"

Nature keeps beings of subtle worlds hidden from us for a purpose. For being able to communicate and interact with them ... your mind must be tuned to that and your spiritual level should allow this. What happens that the more you believe in them ... you attract them ... as your thoughts are not in vain but vibrations of consciousness which are highly powerful. So, your thoughts do make a big difference. If you are spiritually powerful, no being can do anything against your wishes.

I know there is a popular saying, "Seeing is believing", which demonstrates that one needs to believe and have faith, in order to see and experience these sort of things. But for some people such as Myself it is the reverse.

I have seen it all myself and all that was not at all fake. But you should believe what I say for your own benefit.

Being a materialistic agnostic(Which gives one the benefit of "Blocking" these things out), I couldnt become a believer, until I Seen, Experienced, and Verified. From that point on, it was impossible to go back to my old self. My Ego and everything I knew about what I thought was reality was shattered, I havent been the 'same' since.

That is why I suggest that you concentrate upon your spiritual advancement and not on these beings.

So my theory is, that a persons belief system in their own mind, can filter, and influence how they interpret an energy/spirit, but it does not change the energy objectivly for what it is. People who trap themselves in their left brain, can still feel the influence or sensation of external spiritual energies even in every day life, but being the non-believers that they are, they would just attempt to rationalize it, or just conclude that it was "themself" projecting.

It is ok but why go in adirection which is full of danger ?

I disagree, but I would just agree to disagree so our discussion doesnt go far off course. Although, I do agree, that the "average joe" has a higher chance of dealing with oppresion and having their life intruded.

If you are talking of some saint's soul coming into contact with you ... then you are lucky. However, in most of the cases, these beings are not-so-good beings and who are attached to this world's bondages.

As for the spiritual status, I dont really see it as Linear Hierarchical. To me they simply "are". As to why they disturb people, if they are non-human, I try not to project my human understanding on their very being. Their nature is simply indifferent. Like we are to insects, plants, trees, critters, all "lesser life" in order for mankinds selfish ways to continue to exist and evolve. Like they are to us. You cant force a lion to become a vegeterian, they need to sustain their existence. It's part of the cycle of life.

There is a good book written by a very highly placed Government official, "Maine Pari ke paaon dekhe" (I saw the feet of a nymph). Here in this book whatever you say is described vividly and he actually saw the feet of the nymph which was called by a tAntrik in a closed chamber to offer them a feast. This fellow got hooked to this knowledge and wanted to learn the trick of calling beings of other world when he wanted. When the tAntrik learnt this, he laughed wryly and said, "Don't fall in the ditch that I have fallen into. You are asking for poison.". I have some real life stories of some people too whom I closely know who could at some time were able to interact with these beings ... they finally learnt that this road leads to hell and they came out of it.

So, my sincere advice is that you should better stay away from all these. But it is your decision which matters.

OM

[NayaSurya]

Hari Om and namaste to all who may see this. It has been a long while since i come here and tonight for some reason i did...and this is the thread i stumble upon. i can only think Beloved brought me for this reason. Fresh from our Temple, i do think it is true.

Hari Om Namah Shivaya...Beloved Everything<3

My father killed himself a year ago on New Years Eve. Now, previously i had very little contact with him, though i did call and tell him i love him. He had been sincerely trying to change...even stopped drinking...only to have a stroke while driving, then a heart attack while he was in the car trapped...and became paralyzed from the waist down. He refused to live this way despite them saying he could fully recover with some time to heal and refused food and water.

Now, you can read back to many posts, that i was sad, for i would not get to spend time with the man who was finally trying to become a father...but was SO overjoyed he was going to have a new day, a new life...and the chance to perhaps have a loving family (as he was severely abused as a child).

Now, what does this have to do with your conversation?

Well....flash foward to this past Autumn...you see i have always had others around me....they never show themself...so i lived very peacefully.

I'll be honest, they are helpers...amazing helpers.

But in the Autumn i decided to record a song on video for my friends and when i put it on my computer...Beloved Shiva...the thing was full of screams...anger....threats to my entire family...the worst horrific, filthy vile things were said...and high above...the singing and beautiful high voices were so kind. There were layers of voices upon the different frequencies...and the loudest...the most angry...forlorned...aggressive. Was my own biological father.

He thought i was Muslim...because he was still just as ignorant as he was in life.

The once peaceful home...the once peaceful prayers became tainted by this angry man. I grew silent...sought shelter in my Beloved Temple ...though it is almost 1 hour thirty minutes from our home....we did...we go...and it is the only place i had peace for many months.

For all the good those Beloved Devas brought to me upon that recording...the encouraging beautiful things.

They were utterly obliterated by these dark demons which were using my father to get to me. He said "I'll get to her." Deep voice says "YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO." "I KNOW BUT SHE'S MY DAUGHTER!!!"

My own sister almost died from this....she is now going to be fighting COPD and Emphasema for the rest of her life and she just turned 40...my entire family was stricken, two of my children were severely ill and had trips to the E.R. and our hospital.

I believe it was Beloved Krishna who warns about worshiping ghosts...and i tell you...even giving them one moment, is just this.

There is much more...i may unlock my diary to the full story as a warning.

Now, you know i did not ask for this....his death was the begining to them finding me..and they don't care about you...or your life....they want you to suffer...the coldness of their hearts can not be understood from our warm position so near to Beloved's Warm Heart.

Hari Om, Beloved Mahadeva, my Heart....my ocean of happiness <3

[NayaSurya]

P.S.
From what i can understand about the other thing (are we real are they real) above.

People...souls have layers upon us.

This lifetime, this me is a layer.

Those spirits on my recording? Still utterly ignorant, they knew nothing more than they did at their death! This was quite a suprise to me, but it makes sense with Advaita.

You see they are still in that "angry man" mode...still within that skin/layer and still playing out that drama in that personality.

Each layer, becomes removed with sadhana...karma burnt...lots of lessons...lots of Mercy.

Under these layers...Pure Beloved.

The layers not only separate us from our True Selves, but from each other too.

So that's my evolving understanding upon our existence...from what i have seen here.

Which really and truly explains the vast ignorance and vile behaviour of those poor folks below us.

May Beloved Have Mercy upon them.

Hari om <3

[Amrut]

Namaste,

Spirits are all real. Shastras say there are 7 lokas and 14 bhuvans. Some above and some below earth. Mostly you can find it in Garuda Purana. May be other knowledgeable members can say something more and give importance.

Spirits are true entities, but if you ask advaita standpoint, you will have to neglect them and do not give importance.

Planes higher than bhu loka (pruthvi loka) are yonis higher than human race like that of devas.

one can definitely communicate with them, but if you are asking from a standpoint of advaita or even dvaita, nothing except God should be given importance.

I too have felt pressure on head, felt them and even saw them. I am talking of higher beings when I was Practising Pranic Healing. Some communicate during meditation, some during healing, etc. But traditional advaita do not give them importance

In bhagavad Gita, Bhagavan Krushna in chapter 9 verse 25 says

The worshippers of the gods go to them; to the manes go the ancestor-worshippers; to the deities who preside over the elements go their worshippers; but My devotees come to Me.

source: English translation by Swami Sivananda
http://202.3.77.102/acquia/?q=node/27

so it is upto you whom you want to stay with. Sure these things spirits, good and bad, divine, devil, etc exists and so does heaven and hell

The more you take interest in them, the more you will come close in them and be influenced in them.

But then what is your purpose of life? the answer will show you the path.

Aum
IS

[Spirit Seeker]

Namaste all, ^ I already as well responded to everyone previously above, but only had one of my posts approved faster then the others. =/ *sigh*

Nature keeps beings of subtle worlds hidden from us for a purpose. For being able to communicate and interact with them ... your mind must be tuned to that and your spiritual level should allow this. What happens that the more you believe in them ... you attract them ... as your thoughts are not in vain but vibrations of consciousness which are highly powerful. So, your thoughts do make a big difference. If you are spiritually powerful, no being can do anything against your wishes.

Namaste, Devotee

According to Advaita(Or perhaps Hinduism Overall) what is the purpose that these worlds are hidden from us?

That is why I suggest that you concentrate upon your spiritual advancement and not on these beings.

Oh dont get me wrong, I know full well how uncanny and dangerous a lot of them can be.(Depending on what it is), I do Focus on God, and I'm young so I'm still learning a lot along the way. It's not that I put a special focus towards them, but due to personal life experiences, I cant help but have an unconsious hyper-awareness of them. It's left it's "Imprint" on me.

It is ok but why go in adirection which is full of danger ?

What is your view on "Evil". Does True Evil Energies exist in advaita or in hinduism, or is it merely a flawed human concept due to our perceptual limitations?

We humans are complex creatures capable of darkness and light, at any given moment. I know there's creatures that exist on either extreme end of the spectrum.(What we perceive) But is there no In-between or grey area? Does one spirit have to be Purely Benevolent or one Purely Malicious?

Honest Question.

As to why I chosen this path, all I want to do is try to understand them. I know there's a lot of controversy over it depending on the religion or region. I know it's a path not to be taken lightly, I have colleagues, who live well balanced lives with constant interaction with spirits, and their services towards people. So I can only say, it's something definitely not for the average person, it is a path that can take a lifetime of training and knowledge to learn how to properly handle them and not let them consume you in the process.

So in a nutshell, I want to understand them, while in the process help people in the manner, that those specialized in these areas have helped me in my spiritual troubles.

There is a good book written by a very highly placed Government official, "Maine Pari ke paaon dekhe" (I saw the feet of a nymph). Here in this book whatever you say is described vividly and he actually saw the feet of the nymph which was called by a tAntrik in a closed chamber to offer them a feast. This fellow got hooked to this knowledge and wanted to learn the trick of calling beings of other world when he wanted. When the tAntrik learnt this, he laughed wryly and said, "Don't fall in the ditch that I have fallen into. You are asking for poison.". I have some real life stories of some people too whom I closely know who could at some time were able to interact with these beings ... they finally learnt that this road leads to hell and they came out of it.

So, my sincere advice is that you should better stay away from all these. But it is your decision which matters.

OM

If you dont mind sharing some anecdotes I am willing to hear, to compare to my own experiences. I'm open minded enough to compromise how I see things, Like I said I am still learning.

I'm not going to go into specifics details for now, but a few years ago I had a Djinn/Yakshini infatuated by me. She attached herself to me, and it was quite profound, to feel a deep sense of consciousness that was different from my own. I could even write a book on it.

My interactions with her and how she revealed herself to me, was clear as day, almost no different as to how I would interact with a Physical Person. Her having an intimate connection with my Conciousness, she "Opened" my minds up internally, as well as externally. Before that point, I never received such profound visions and intuitions, it amazed me the things I suddenly "knew" about people just by looking at them or "reading" their energy, the things i "saw" around them, and I knew it was all her doing. I couldnt believe it myself until had to ask them, was surprising how accurate I can "dig" stuff up out of them.

I had to do a ton of research to figure out what the hell I was seeing, and the constant stream of sensations I was experiencing. I was going through all sorts of fluctuations emotionally, and mentally. The constant feeling of not being alone, receiving "thoughts" that werent even my own. It wasnt long before I came across the concepts of what a "3rd Eye" was, and the experience of having it opened.

I've had her around me for a full year, and due to some complications that happened with my life, and those around me, many spiritually enlightened as well clairvoyant people have all confirmed for me that she wasnt good to keep around. She's made a big impact on my life, and since she's been "banished",(Complicated Ritual) I cant help but do everything I can to try to understand her kind. She wasn't "evil". She impacted me, and It is because of her That I now believe in God, as she was a Believer as well.

Since that time, since she's been gone, the visions, as well as my keen awareness of these unseen subtle energies have all ceased.

But it'z amazed me, the process in which this happened, from my observations, people who meditate for months, years, or perhaps a lifetime to attempt to gain these "powers", was granted and "given" to me within the span of a month, with no work whatsoever on my part.

I guess if I want that experience again I have to work hard and earn it.

Thank you for your insight.

Blessings.