Service to humanity vs. bhakti

[Viraja]

What comes first according to scriptures?

When we consider it in practical terms, service to humanity seems to be the winner - there are so many people, especially the elderly, who are in pitiable conditions - their body having many disfigurements, or having puss formations, or they are in states where they need help with all forms of hygiene, requiring bedpans and so forth. There are people who serve such people, recently heard on of such humanitarian organizations where the founder rescues abandoned people in pitiable conditions from street-sides and gives them a good life. (www.eeranenjam.org). Serving the abandoned in pitiable states thus, does not come to all, even in paid jobs. For example, one of my friends who does minimum wage jobs went to inquire and watch a dental hygienist in hope to acquire a degree in the same. And she came back to complain that "Cleaning other peoples' mouth such as one with puss formation and so forth is beyond her tolerance level". When I thought deeply, I realized how true it is when they say the doctor professional is the most worthwhile because it involves checking and treating others with such pitiable and sometimes disgusting physical conditions such as when bleeding, after being victimized by bomb blasts and so forth.

But on the other hand, we see a bhakta, especially in olden days, who has been given to begging for food, and doing many types of tapas of austerities to acquire humility and other virtues. Especially, let us take into consideration the saints.

So which is greater, doing service to humanity or aspiring to serve the lord at a capacity comparable to that of a saint?

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namast�

So which is greater, doing service to humanity or aspiring to serve the lord at a capacity comparable to that of a saint?

I see this as no different...The fully realized being (a saint) serves humanity and the Supreme as there is no difference. His or her service (sevā) can be in an active role, or in silence. Humanity benefits by both. His service to the Supreme can be in pūjā that offered or in tending a flower garden. Each action is an offering to the Supreme.

When one is achored in the world of differences we see fragmented actions; when achored in wholeness� a different world emerges. Sama then reigns supreme.

iti śivaṁ

• wholeness - ātma-samārpaṇam kāra ( some may call ātma-nivedana) - to surrender to one's Self; to live in one's svadharma i.e. to live in one's true nature
• sama - full , complete , whole , entire ; sameness of objects compared to one another

[Viraja]

Thank you, Yajvan ji.

[Necromancer]

What comes first according to scriptures?

When we consider it in practical terms, service to humanity seems to be the winner - there are so many people, especially the elderly, who are in pitiable conditions - their body having many disfigurements, or having puss formations, or they are in states where they need help with all forms of hygiene, requiring bedpans and so forth. There are people who serve such people, recently heard on of such humanitarian organizations where the founder rescues abandoned people in pitiable conditions from street-sides and gives them a good life. (www.eeranenjam.org). Serving the abandoned in pitiable states thus, does not come to all, even in paid jobs. For example, one of my friends who does minimum wage jobs went to inquire and watch a dental hygienist in hope to acquire a degree in the same. And she came back to complain that "Cleaning other peoples' mouth such as one with puss formation and so forth is beyond her tolerance level". When I thought deeply, I realized how true it is when they say the doctor professional is the most worthwhile because it involves checking and treating others with such pitiable and sometimes disgusting physical conditions such as when bleeding, after being victimized by bomb blasts and so forth.

But on the other hand, we see a bhakta, especially in olden days, who has been given to begging for food, and doing many types of tapas of austerities to acquire humility and other virtues. Especially, let us take into consideration the saints.

So which is greater, doing service to humanity or aspiring to serve the lord at a capacity comparable to that of a saint?

Namaste. Serving mankind/humanity will always be more important than serving God.

Lucifer was kicked out from heaven for believing otherwise...and although I am not Christian, the message is definitely there for all of us.

This is the reason why I will never become enlightened in this lifetime. I have been hurt and screwed over by people so much that I no longer like anybody, trust anybody and have overgeneralised in this regard to avoid any further pain.

I'd rather serve God than to serve mankind, being the anti-social misanthrope I am, but that's my life test I don't even wish to sit for.

The universe always makes things very difficult for me and thus I realise that serving God is easy....serving mankind is difficult...and the 'spiritual path' wasn't meant to be easy.

Aum Namah Shivaya

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namast�

This is the reason why I will never become enlightened in this lifetime. I have been hurt and screwed over by people so much that I no longer like anybody, trust anybody and have overgeneralised in this regard to avoid any further pain.

I'd rather serve God than to serve mankind, being the anti-social misanthrope I am, but that's my life test I don't even wish to sit for.

The universe always makes things very difficult for me and thus I realise that serving God is easy....serving mankind is difficult...and the 'spiritual path' wasn't meant to be easy.

I can see your point. My post (here) is not to change your mind as one's direct experience outweighs any words one can offer. People are challanging, of this there is no doubt.
Yet when things start to change for you (and they will - nothing remains the same) be sure to see if your outlook changes also.

'this whole universe has come into existence just to carry you to God Consciousness. It is not meant to push you down.This universe is meant for your upliftment.'... svāmī lakṣman-jū

Some times ( most of the time) this is hard to see.

iti śivaṁ

[jignyAsu]

Pranams!

Here's my thoughts. Sri GitAcharya in 18th chapter says to continue performing the act of dhAnA (charity) but without the attachment to the fruits of action and without the thought: "I am the doer". Definetely Sattva requires performance no matter how disagreeable the work is.

So Bhakti includes service to humanity. But it is more than just material service. Every human should get his basic needs, no doubt. However just filling stomach is not enough...otherwise all our politicians would have attained Nirvana by now ! So, get a person food for his(her) stomach and then for his soul.

Didn't Sri Ramanuja accept going to hell in order to "serve" the humanity?

[Viraja]

Pranams!

Here's my thoughts. Sri GitAcharya in 18th chapter says to continue performing the act of dhAnA (charity) but without the attachment to the fruits of action and without the thought: "I am the doer". Definetely Sattva requires performance no matter how disagreeable the work is.

So Bhakti includes service to humanity. But it is more than just material service. Every human should get his basic needs, no doubt. However just filling stomach is not enough...otherwise all our politicians would have attained Nirvana by now ! So, get a person food for his(her) stomach and then for his soul.

Didn't Sri Ramanuja accept going to hell in order to "serve" the humanity?

That is true, Sri Ramanuja went against his guru and gave the Panchakshari mantra to the deserving people. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzJFePDJ7Q4

If you take a country as India, it seems we have an abundance of spiritualists but someone who would organize a facility that would rescue street-side people, abandoned old people and orphaned children, and give them a good life though no money can be expected from them, are very rare to find.

Today I am thinking, such selfish social work also needs daily sadhana to god. Otherwise, over time, the ego starts winning and people start to think, "I do so much good" - over time, this may lead to conceit and a gradual reduction of their good karma or worst yet, may be a stimulant for them to use the people they help for their benefit, such as trying to convert them to other religions and so forth. This may not be good for their own spiritual upliftment in the long term.