Truth... possible ?

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namast�

We were talking about the truth in another post . There is no doubt that truth takes on many shapes. I say something is X , another says Y. I say that is right, another says it is wrong. In the other post I wrote the following:

The only evidence that will be non-disputable will be direct personal experience. No matter what others say or show you there will always be a doubt. That is why we are taught ( within sanātana dharma) that the Self (ātman) is svatāsiddha is self-revealed, self-known on a personal, subjective, intimate level.

We are told within our śāstra-s that knowing the unwaivering truth is in fact possible and available to us. If we look to the relative field of daily life, truth ( satta) vasilates and is colored by our moods, likes and dis-likes, by our ability to comprehend, and the like.

Is there the possibility of 'knowing' that is not tainted by all the variables that bring debate on what is true and what is false? Yes, our śāstra-s tell us so. Let me offer one passage that comes to us via śeṣa pata�jali ( the author of the yoga-sūtras);He informs us of the following:

ṛtambharā tatra praj�ā ||48
Simply said, this sūtra says that knowledge (praj�ā) that is cognized in that place (tatra) is ṛtambharā ||

If we read the previous sūtra-s then we know 'in that place (tatra)' is referring to nirvicāra-samādhi which is part of the subject matter of chapter 1, or samādhi pāda. The key word then is ' ṛtambharā '. This tells the story of this sūtra. What does it mean ?

• ṛtambharā = ṛtam + bharā
  • ṛtam = ṛta = truth; luminous , enlightening; right
  • bharā = bestowing, granting, carrying; mass , bulk , multitude , abundance , excess ;
    this word is rooted (√) in bhṛ defined as bearing , carrying , bringing

Now with this word defined we can better apprecaite the sūtra :

knowledge (praj�ā) that is cognized in that place (tatra) is a mass, filled with, has the abundence, grants truth (ṛtambharā) ||

So, it is a realized being's (śeṣa pata�jali) experience and instruction that an indvidual can obtain a level of awareness that is beyond the throws of relative opinion, and reside in a level of consciousness that only knows the truth.

If one is without this experience of various levels of perfect silence (samādhi) then it is hard to comprehend this is even possible.
This is why so many people may suggest that everything is opinon, is relative; that one may not know the truth , and if one does it is their own subjective experience and does not go further then that.

It is no different then one's observation of watching the sun rise and go across the sky every day. Without the right knowledge it is easy to come to the conclusion that the sun circles the earth. India and the wisdom of jyotish ( via yāj�avalkya-ji ) knew the proper movement of the earth thousands of years ago; yet the West became 'awake' to this fact via Copernicus , some argue Aristarchus of Samos ( in Greece) was the first with this idea.

The point to be made , when the experience does not compliment the knowledge one will have doubts. Doubts can become obliterated via ṛtambharā.

iti śivaṁ

[Kalicharan Tuvij]

ṛtambharā tatra praj�ā ||48

Thank you, Yajvan, for pointing out this pearl of wisdom. Once again, I think you have been very intuitive, in sensing the contradictions playing out in HDF, and also in sensing what the solution could be.

Surely, dividing HDF into various streams, various sects, forums, and hoping that these will not interact with each other, and "stuff" will be self-contained, is hoping too much. It is in human nature that it wants it all. So, what is the "it all"?

What does a small Drop of "it all" looks like? I think this question is bothering you. And, clearly, even that Drop, even that infinitesimal, cannot belong to a particular sect!

To evolve further on the meaning of the quote, by Ṛtambhara we can also mean a "domain" filled (Bhara) with Harmony and inner consistency (Ṛta). And by Pragna we can mean the "force" (pra) of cognition (gna). So the line would mean, "cognition creates force when in the space (akasha) of harmony". Else, clearly, it will not create the force.

Or does this also paint the picture of that small Drop?

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namast�

ṛtambharā tatra praj�ā ||48
To evolve further on the meaning of the quote, by Ṛtambhara we can also mean a "domain" filled (Bhara) with Harmony and inner consistency (Ṛta). And by Pragna we can mean the "force" (pra) of cognition (gna). So the line would mean, "cognition creates force when in the space (akasha) of harmony". Else, clearly, it will not create the force.

Excellent...
I would add - the cognition of that ( tat+ra) fills (pra) the space with ṛta.

tat = tad = that.
ra= giving, aquiring; brightness , splendor

This 'pra' is also defined as fulfilling, or fulfilment. So it can be seen as the 'force' that fulfills. But what is it filling? It is filling the ~space~ with ṛta, truth.

iti śivaṁ

[Amrut]

The point to be made , when the experience does not compliment the knowledge one will have doubts. Doubts can become obliterated via ṛtambharā.

Faith is, `To believe what you do not see', the reward of which is, `you see what you believed'. - Swami Chinmaya.

We should not let our faith in shastras, God, Guru and tradition and finally in us just because someone tries to fire us up. Why loose our hard earned peace, bliss and introvertness, which we have achieved after many years, because of just one day, one incident

we should be liberal but not weak minded, so as to be in a fix if someone tries to shake our faith.

Be like a coconut: hard from surface, soft from within (always surrendered)

Hard from within because this world is not very good, this samaj is not supportive to the one who dedicates his entire life to God. Not even parents support. Problem comes when you drop all actitives like visintg marriage functions, playing cricket, play holi, diwali, visit friends, etc. Then the real problem starts.

So .. stand strong, but be surrendered

Just my 2 cents.

Aum
Indiaspirituality

btw, I respect your knowledge and your clarity ... and your explanation.

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namast�

we should be liberal but not weak minded, so as to be in a fix if someone tries to shake our faith.

Be like a coconut: hard from surface, soft from within (always surrendered)

My teacher used to talk of the following qualities that come with spiritual growth:

• stability
• adaptability
• integration
• purification
• growth

New ideas passing though these 5 gates , it seems to me, would then be worthy of merit.

• Is the idea stable ?
• Can it adapt to the present conditions of me, my family, my society?
• Will it integrate into our values or the spiritual values I hold dear?
• Does any part of the idea need some purification -or- do I myself need additional purification so I may adapt this new idea ( e.g. a higher spiritual construct, notion, technique).
• Do I grow from this, does my community or my nation ?

A very practical approach.

iti śivaṁ

[Amrut]

Do I grow from this, does my community or my nation ?A very practical approach.

iti śivaṁ

Namaste,

Apart from the lat one, I agree with what you say, though personally, if my Guru says anything, I do not ask questions

Regarding last statement, I personally, do not think of society. God will take care of it. Thats what I have been told.

But different people have different approaches and thinking, all work

Aum

[Kalicharan Tuvij]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namast�

Excellent...
I would add - the cognition of that ( tat+ra) fills (pra) the space with ṛta.

tat = tad = that.
ra= giving, aquiring; brightness , splendor

This 'pra' is also defined as fulfilling, or fulfilment. So it can be seen as the 'force' that fulfills. But what is it filling? It is filling the ~space~ with ṛta, truth.

iti śivaṁ

ṛtambharā tatra praj�ā ||48
In conclusion, "there is cognition, there is fulfilment, and there is ṛta"; with "bhara" meaning there is nothing else.

(there is cognition, there is fulfilment, and there is ṛta)

Well, I think we need to go further into the meaning ṛta. "Truth" is a good starting point, but no doubt, as you would agree, there is "action" involved in its meaning. Like, "true"?

PS: thanks Indiaspirituality for joining in.

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namast�

Well, I think we need to go further into the meaning ṛta. "Truth" is a good starting point, but no doubt, as you would agree, there is "action" involved in its meaning. Like, "true"?

I wrote in the above post:

ṛtambharā = ṛtam + bharā

• ṛtam = ṛta = truth; luminous , enlightening; right
• bharā = bestowing, granting, carrying; mass , bulk , multitude , abundance , excess ;
  this word is rooted (√) in bhṛ defined as bearing , carrying , bringing

The trouble with words is one can use too many, or not enough. Pending one's level of ability, we look to the word for a best fit. Yet best fit is pending one's state of awareness and ability to comprehend. That is why ṛta (IMHO) is a jewel.
When this ṛta is in full bloom within the person, the full truth comes out with just a hint, just an idea, and it is there in full light. That is why ṛta is also defined as 'luminous , enlightening'. It throws the proper light on any subject, idea or notion to bring out the complete and whole offering that is residing in the idea.

For this, all should pursue it.

iti śivaṁ

[Kalicharan Tuvij]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namast�



I wrote in the above post:

[/LIST]The trouble with words is one can use too many, or not enough. Pending one's level of ability, we look to the word for a best fit. Yet best fit is pending one's state of awareness and ability to comprehend. That is why ṛta (IMHO) is a jewel.
When this ṛta is in full bloom within the person, the full truth comes out with just a hint, just an idea, and it is there in full light. That is why ṛta is also defined as 'luminous , enlightening'. It throws the proper light on any subject, idea or notion to bring out the complete and whole offering that is residing in the idea.

For this, all should purse it.

iti śivaṁ

So Ṛta means a growing out of light in all directions, from the tiny center of hint. Just like a spider at the center with the webs weaving around everywhere, filling up the space.
And the meaning is not to be limited to just space. Ṛtu means, season. Or that which has a regularity, a rhythm, over time.
Ṛta weaves, ṛta connects, ṛta evolves, ṛta harmonises, ṛta is rhythm, ṛta is law.
Single word for all these, in my mind is:
Ṛta is Beauty.
Yes, I will like to stick to it.

Yajvan, I am sure you know very well how central this word is to the soul of RgVeda. Kindly throw some more light on it, and the above, to the benefit of the members.

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namast�

So Ṛta means a growing out of light in all directions,...
I am sure you know very well how central this word is to the soul of RgVeda. Kindly throw some more light on it, and the above, to the benefit of the members.

The very first words found in the ṛg ved ( 1.1.1 ) are: agnim īḷe or agni I adore. There is great interest to 'kindle agni' (ṛg ved 1.26.5) by the ṛṣi-s; Some would say to bring forth Divine Will. That is, agni is instrumental, say the wise, in initiating one into the spiritual path.
But what does this have to do with truth and ṛtam ? We needn't look further then the 8th sūkta (1.1.8) which is offered by the seer ( ṛṣi ) madhucandāḥ vaiśvāmitraḥ:

rājantan adhvarāṇām gopām ṛtasyadīdivim |
vardhamānam sve dame ||
This says that agni is the master, the king (rāja) or sovereign over the truth ( ṛta ) ; we can say the luminious (divi) truth (ṛta) as it is mentioned in this sūkta. This aligns agni with truth (ṛta). This confirms what is said in the 5th sūkta that agni is the truth or satyaḥ.

This alignment is quite important because within the ṛg ved , out of 10,552 mantra's agni appears in roughly 2,000 of them or 19%. Hence this kindling of agni ( 1.26.7) 'may we be dear to agni' , suggests the growth of ṛtam within one's self; the growth of agni is of great import
to one's development; so we are informed by the seer ( ṛṣi ) śunaḥṣhepaḥ ājī gartiḥ .

This is a core message offered in the ṛg ved. Agni is beyond the notion of flame. Yet flame , light and brillance represent this ṛtam quite well.

iti śivaṁ