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Thread: Advaita in memory

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    Advaita in memory

    An Advaiti Jeevan MukthA carries his firm realization of "Brahma satyam jagan mitya" till (apparent)death and before final release.

    What if before death, he meets with an unfortunate accident and loses his memory? Does he start seeing difference and miss his maha samadhi?

    Does he remain a witness to the accident and so the realization is retained somewhere else? Then he should be in realization of being a witness at all times including sleep/dream/swoon. Also he must have forgotten all the shruti pramAnA for sure and so with what certainty will he continue? At this point he has nothing to say that all this is an illusion.

    Or is it that he gets divine powers to avoid such incidents?

    How would an advaiti view this scenario?

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    Re: Advaita in memory

    Quote Originally Posted by jignyAsu View Post
    An Advaiti Jeevan MukthA carries his firm realization of "Brahma satyam jagan mitya" till (apparent)death and before final release.

    What if before death, he meets with an unfortunate accident and loses his memory? Does he start seeing difference and miss his maha samadhi?

    Does he remain a witness to the accident and so the realization is retained somewhere else? Then he should be in realization of being a witness at all times including sleep/dream/swoon. Also he must have forgotten all the shruti pramAnA for sure and so with what certainty will he continue? At this point he has nothing to say that all this is an illusion.

    Or is it that he gets divine powers to avoid such incidents?

    How would an advaiti view this scenario?
    Namaste,

    Jeevan Mukta is the one who is free while he is alive i.e. in physical body. His association with his body is already dead the moment he is has identified and established himself in and as Supreme Self.

    Ashtavakra Gita says that A jnani sees his own body like we see another bodies (i.e. we see other person).

    A body is like a shadow. We do not care if the shadow is falling in gutter / drain or if a car runs over the shadow.

    Just like a food vomited out of mouth is not taken again and we do not have any Asakti in this vomit, so does jnani has renounced his attachment with his body permanently. So consciousness of Jivan Mukta is not in body and so not in brain but in supreme self.

    As the word says, he has already achieved what is to be achieved. After the body drops permanently, you can say he has reached videhi mukti

    Aum
    IS
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

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    Re: Advaita in memory

    This is a great question. I too became interested in knowing the right answer(s) after reading the question. Although not from an advaita point of view, I want to give here my humble attempt.

    I am reminded of sage Mandavya's story. As one can see from the story, sage Mandavya was wrongly identified as a thief and was impaled on a stake. The story says "Since he was in yoga when he was impaled he remained alive by the power of yoga.". Hence I am given to the belief that if a man of god is in yoga when something befalls him, then due to the power of the yoga he does not lose his memory but becomes a witness to the mishap that happened to him. But I cannot think of what will happen to him when something happens to him when he is not in yoga, at normal circumstances. Then, I think the divine will have warned him before about this event and that this mishap won't happen to him at all. It is said in the story of Sri Adi Sankara when he was in the body of a bird that a Kaabalika tried to cut down his head but then Lord Narasimha appeared in the form of a mountain lion and killed the Kabalika. Owing to the profound spiritual development of the native, god will not let such a mishap as memory loss happen to him.
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

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    Re: Advaita in memory

    Pranams!

    Quote Originally Posted by Indiaspirituality View Post
    A body is like a shadow. We do not care if the shadow is falling in gutter / drain or if a car runs over the shadow.
    Gutter/drain - agreed. But the loss of memory is what concerns me. That injury (sorry for continuing to be unpleasant) assuming has made him forget everything including Vedanta and the knowledge to refute superimpositions, what is he left with? That witness is there in everyone..nothing new. However, the realization..where is that retained?

    Quote Originally Posted by Indiaspirituality View Post
    So consciousness of Jivan Mukta is not in body and so not in brain but in supreme self.
    This is what is difficult for me to understand. The supreme self is already shining and "he" has "recognized" it. The consciousness has always been emanating..nothing new here. But his realization was new. To me it sounds like this realization is vulnerable.

    This would also mean that a jnAni should definetely retain this realization when in sleep, swoon, dream etc. He should necessarily know he is dreaming, while he is dreaming! Do you think so too?

    Do you think he will develop special powers for sure then?

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    Re: Advaita in memory

    Quote Originally Posted by Viraja View Post
    Although not from an advaita point of view, I want to give here my humble attempt.
    My question is from Advaita POV only. This is because others consider a distinct Brahman having all auspicious qualities. So, they would say..will God let his happen?..like you have put it. Not that any Advaiti will deny an ishvara saving them...but its not necessary from their POV.

    Quote Originally Posted by Viraja View Post
    It is said in the story of Sri Adi Sankara ........
    But then that was Sri Adi Shankara equipped with a lot of special powers. Would this be applicable to all the advaitis? Meaning is it upto the Ishvara to save all jnAnis? Will all the jnAnis develop such special powers (an answer acceptable to me at this point)

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    Re: Advaita in memory

    Quote Originally Posted by jignyAsu View Post
    Pranams!

    Gutter/drain - agreed. But the loss of memory is what concerns me. That injury (sorry for continuing to be unpleasant) assuming has made him forget everything including Vedanta and the knowledge to refute superimpositions, what is he left with? That witness is there in everyone..nothing new. However, the realization..where is that retained?
    Namaste,

    If you think of Knowledge as just information gained from books, then yes anything can happen, loss of memory and so loss of scriptural knowledge.

    Once you realize brahman, it is permanent. it is not temporary after the mind is destroyed. it remains 24 x 7, 365 days.

    After knowing you you are, do you need to continue chanting it. e.g. Do you ever do a japa - I am human, etc No.

    Only when one needs to sleep - one say auto-suggest - I want ot sleep, I want to Sleep, I am sleeping. After sleeping, does the thought continue? No. You just sleep.


    This is what is difficult for me to understand. The supreme self is already shining and "he" has "recognized" it. The consciousness has always been emanating..nothing new here. But his realization was new. To me it sounds like this realization is vulnerable.

    This would also mean that a jnAni should definetely retain this realization when in sleep, swoon, dream etc. He should necessarily know he is dreaming, while he is dreaming! Do you think so too?

    Do you think he will develop special powers for sure then?
    No, Jnani's realization is not vulnerable after the mind is destroyed says Sri Ramana Maharshi. It is said that there are no thoughts in Jnani. He lives upon intuitions - you may find is difficult to digest.

    I have personally experienced that as one's surrender to God and the desires decreases, duration of sleep, dream sleep decreases. Dreams are nothing but extinguishing of thoughts. Desires which cannot be fulfilled in waking state are tried to be fulfilled

    Jnani does not dream. He lives in thoughtless state when not doing any physical work and works in intuitions when doing any karma. Jnani's body is entirely handled by God's power - Prakurti or simply God. Everything just happens. You will understand if you meditate and experience detachment with thoughts, mind and body, that consciousness does not think or dream.

    It's different and from practical standpoint, cannot be digested. But it is true.

    Each Jnani is filled with Shakti. It all depends upon divine plan and God whether they use is or not. Some use, some not. IT doe not make any difference. It is said by Sri Ramana Maharshi.

    Aum
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

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    Re: Advaita in memory

    Thanks for the detailed posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Indiaspirituality View Post
    Once you realize brahman, it is permanent. it is not temporary after the mind is destroyed. it remains 24 x 7, 365 days.
    Does this realization remain after death then? There seems to be no place in Advaita to accept any thing permanent other than Brahman, let alone an intuition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Indiaspirituality View Post
    It is said that there are no thoughts in Jnani. He lives upon intuitions - you may find is difficult to digest.
    I wonder if every Advaiti will agree to this..that one has no thoughts after realization. I think the notion of many is that the jnAni will continue performing his acts like eating etc, thinking but will remain a witness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Indiaspirituality View Post
    Jnani does not dream. He lives in thoughtless state when not doing any physical work and works in intuitions when doing any karma. Jnani's body is entirely handled by God's power - Prakurti or simply God. Everything just happens.
    You seem to set a very high standard for all jnAnis. I wonder if all Advaitis [notable ones] agree to this. Irrespective, if special powers handle him, then it means JnAni will be taken care of by the Iswara, till his mahasamadhi...just wanted to know how universal is this idea.

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    Re: Advaita in memory

    Quote Originally Posted by jignyAsu View Post
    An Advaiti Jeevan MukthA carries his firm realization of "Brahma satyam jagan mitya" till (apparent)death and before final release.
    In other words, you are admitting two different liberations - one during the individual's lifetime and then once again, at death.

    What if before death, he meets with an unfortunate accident and loses his memory? Does he start seeing difference and miss his maha samadhi?
    Let us take this one step further. If the concept of Moksha is contingent upon one's memory (I am not arguing this), which in turn requires the physical brain to function normally, then how can Moksha work after one's death? By this logic, it has to end at death - don't you think?
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    Re: Advaita in memory

    Pramans Shiv.

    Quote Originally Posted by shiv.somashekhar View Post
    In other words, you are admitting two different liberations - one during the individual's lifetime and then once again, at death.
    Actually this is Advaita POV, which recognizes jeevan Mukthi. The teachers do recognize a maha samadhi also, though they may say that from their perspective there is no life or death anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by shiv.somashekhar View Post
    If the concept of Moksha is contingent upon one's memory (I am not arguing this), which in turn requires the physical brain to function normally, then how can Moksha work after one's death? By this logic, it has to end at death - don't you think?
    Definetely. And so the teachers say that whatever is gained will be lost. However it is the difference b/w the two states: Jivan mukthi and mahasamadhi, I was talking about. A Jivan muktha seems to be recognizing the apparent difference/illusion and continues to teach the bonded ones, with the firm realization that nothing but the Brahman exists.

    Some others say that he continues watching himself and others as a man would his dreams, "recognizing" well that its a dream. Which means that running away when a tiger chases is also not necessarily being afraid.

    What I was wondering is that this realization must be carried somewhere, till maha samadhi and if any teachers have talked about it.

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    Re: Advaita in memory

    Namaste

    A Jnani is the Self. But, at times, when someone moves by or near His body, He may become body-aware with the ego rising to the head, but soon will follow the Self-inquiry merging it back into the Self. At other times, there may just be the ego facing the Self, completely turned inward, which is a mental modification of the Form of Self. So says, Bhagawan Sri Ramana Mahrashi.

    Srimad Bhagawatham recounts the body of Jada Bharata, a Self-Realized Sage, being saved by Goddess KaaLi, from being offered in sacrifice. Thus, the body of a Sage is at all times watched over and protected by Ishwara/KaaLi before the ending of His bodily fate.

    Ra K Sankar

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