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Thread: Axes to grind

  1. #21
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    Re: Axes to grind

    Namaste,

    Our discussions on this thread bring to mind an ancient folk tale,

    Once two women, quarreling over a baby, showed up in the king's court to seek justice. The king, very patiently heard the pleas of each lady as to why she was the real mother of the child and should be given custody of the baby. Unable to resolve the issue, the king indicated that one solution might be to cut the baby into two and give each half to the two litigants. The second woman was pretty casual about it whereas the first woman was aghast at this suggestion and agreed to let the second woman have the baby. The king immediately pronounced his verdict by awarding the baby to the first woman.

    The real mother was willing to give up her baby rather than see it harmed in any way. Why do I bring up this old tale? The degree of ownership brings out reactions/emotions of varying degrees.

    When I lose a close family member/friend, I am devastated, whereas my neighbor is merely sad.

    When my house burns down, I am in depression, whereas the neighbor merely sympathizes with my loss.

    When something derogatory is said about any aspect of Hinduism, one member might be livid and another may not even notice it.

    Our degree of ownership defines the intensity/depth of our reaction to a loss.

    Some of us in the forum are non-Hindus, who have a minimal attachment to it, and don't feel a thing by any negativity towards it.
    Some of us are casual Hindus, who are very tolerant and not very perturbed when there is negativity about Hinduism brought to the forum.
    Some are fully committed and genuinely have a sense as being its owners and go ballistic when something derogatory is said about its deities. They would go to any lengths, including being banned with their responses to defend their faith. Understanding this simple concept helps us to understand the spectrum of reactions to some of the posts by different members.

    With this as the background, I understand the need to stand down and be more tolerant of the excesses of the new members. But, on the flip side, members must also understand the reaction of those who think of themselves as the owners. It is a two way street. And both sides have to give a little to coexist and keep things civil. Preaching by either side to convert the other side to their line of thinking would be fruitless. But one must remember that as long as you don't think of it as your baby, you don't really care if it lives or dies. So, a reaction to your negative comments from the ones who do think of it as their baby should not be something totally unexpected.

    Pranam.
    Last edited by Believer; 02 June 2013 at 03:51 AM.

  2. #22
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    Re: Axes to grind

    Namaste HDF,

    What needs to be defended should be defended at any cost. For eg, if a girl's honor is in danger, or someone's life is at stake genuinely associated people will do every thing possible.

    In my short stint at HDF have observed members writing whatever that comes in their mind and yet expect/preach others to be tolerant.

    I have great respect for Veda (although I have just started learning Sanskrit), Raamaayan, Mahaabhaarath and last but not the least my sacred nation Bhaarath.

    I participate in this forum because this is mostly well moderated and balanced. But in the name of analysis or information gathering if some member tag Shree Raam as monster or put forward views that support balkanization of my nation or write things like talking monkeys or questioning the integrity and antiquity of Vedic religion with western theories to support their claim etc etc, I really don't know what is expected out me to stay here as a member of HDF.

    According to my tiny brain, Our Dharma revolves around a central theme "Satyameva Jayate". If that's the case isn't our duty to weed out when someone come here with a preconceived notions or premeditated thoughts.

    Apologize if i have not been able articulate my views w.o hurting others or hurling abuses!
    Last edited by Anirudh; 13 March 2013 at 03:55 PM.
    Anirudh...

  3. #23

    Re: Axes to grind

    Pranams,

    To Believer's very good points above, I would just like to add the following.

    My earnest wish on this forum is not to convert anyone or even anyone to my views, but rather to raise the general standard of discussion and/or debate to some reasonably intelligent level. Too often we get questions from members innocently wondering about some point of morality or philosophy, only to get answers of the form:

    "Well, I believe that..."

    "In my opinion...."

    "I think that...."

    ... and so on.

    We should understand that when someone asks a question, it is implicit that he or she is looking for an answer based on some authoritative standard of evidence. Personal opinions are not useful to anyone, and in fact they are quite distracting to those looking for informed discourse. As a public forum, when people chime in with personal opinions, it makes Hinduism look like a free-for-all in which personal opinions hold more sway than objective standards of evidence. Now, the truth is that there is no one, homogeneous Hinduism, and so standards of evidence may vary from one tradition to another. But even still, there is no reason why one cannot cite the standards by which he or she answers. If "personal opinion" is the sole basis for providing an answer, it is probably best not to offer it.

    regards,
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  4. #24
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    Re: Axes to grind

    Namaste,
    Quote Originally Posted by philosoraptor View Post
    If "personal opinion" is the sole basis for providing an answer, it is probably best not to offer it.
    But, that also is a personal opinion, no?

    Just kidding P/Raptor. Thanks for the addition to my post.

    Pranam.

  5. #25
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    Re: Axes to grind

    Wundermonk: How many of you use HDF as an avenue to grind some ax or the other you have against other Hindu POVs?

    How many of you who grind such axes identify yourselves as Hindus?

    What is the key purpose, you think, of HDF?
    Namaste

    I think such "grinding of axes" has different reasons, but now exploring the world of Hindu forums, I might have an answer to one reason.

    The internet forum has introduced many wonderful opportunities for learning, growing and sharing, and in particular associating with those who have something they consider truth. Hinduism on the internet is, in one way, a revolution. Unfortunately, forums on the internet can also be the faceless wastelands of those who believe they have nothing to learn, and who are simply what is today called internet bullies. In fact being nameless and faceless attracts those with such issues.

    There is no easy answer. But I have a question - Does the internet exist only in the Kali Yuga? As we cycle from one to the next, doesn’t that mean it will return again, and again, but why only in this age?

    Ignorance is one thing, but this is quite another issue, and this type of maya speaks of those who carry axes but not for the purpose of chopping wood. They are not a moderator, but they believe they are the authority of the truth, and though they are a nameless, faceless internet bot of which no person should take as an authority or do so at their own risk, the same “control cracker” goes into an endless barrage against anyone they think questions their nameless and faceless citations as if they are the police of last opinion, even if the target of such barrages are more often delusionary, coming from what they often call “enemies” (a term they will use on occasion which exposes certain character flaws). Oddly, they are the very ones who carry axes to such a peculiar and extreme state they read into things which are not there and imagine (1) either some imagined “enemy” is fixated on them, or (2) no one is paying attention to them, either of which sets them off into yet another barrage of vendetta.

    Basically, it is something that all of society is now learning – which is, that one should not take the internet too seriously. The very nature of communications on the internet will be subject to all sorts of punch and counter punch, because it is not, for example, an audience of devotees sitting in a temple and listening to a guru or master. There may be rules, but pretty much there are no walls around it like a temple or a door you go through, the environment is more like an open vegetable market.

    The internet forum isn't a temple, and it isn't personal. It is not personal, it is hard to control, and never something to get much upset about. Perhaps a Blog is a better format than a Forum in this regard, more comfortable for some, and certainly for the owner of the blog. On a Forum, there will be those who come wandering in, who are ignorant, or want sympathy, or are saints (well – probably not), or are bullies, or are simply there for the ride – who knows? It can be controlled only to a certain level. But as for those who go on with axes to grind, typically it is the one who wants to be the authority of last resort who do not understand that the audience is just as nameless and faceless a bot as they are, that others are not their disciples and likely will not ever be so because there is no name, no face, nothing much there. It’s like when you see the local news reporting about the arrest of a child molester in some neighborhood, and then the reporter puts a microphone in the face of those in the neighborhood who start to say to the reporter, “well, I really never knew him personally, not even his name, but he was here and there and he always seemed to be such a nice guy, polite with the elderly” …

    There is room for humor. Go ask Mulla HawaaBaaz.

    “Can’t we all just get along?” – Rodney King, 1992, LA riots

    Om Namah Sivaya
    Last edited by ShivaFan; 14 March 2013 at 01:20 AM.

  6. #26

    Re: Axes to grind

    Quote Originally Posted by Believer View Post
    Namaste,

    But, that also is a personal opinion, no?

    Just kidding P/Raptor. Thanks for the addition to my post.

    Pranam.
    Yes, I should have said, "In my opinion, we should stop offering advice based on personal opinions."

    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

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