Cultivating Kshama

[Ramakrishna]

Namaste Sunyata,

Lots of excellent advice has been given. My sentiments mostly echo Sahasranama's.

I live in the Bible Belt of the US and I've had to deal with people like this on a regular basis. I've learned from experience that what those self-righteous bigots fear the most is an educated and brave Hindu who is not afraid to speak up. Of course, I'm not saying to try to start arguing with her or to be unnecessarily rude, but when this lady talks to you directly about Christianity non-stop, you have two main options. You could just straight up tell her that you don't want to keep on hearing about Jesus, the pope and all that, and you want her to stop constantly talking about it to you since you have no interest whatsoever in such matters. Another option is to begin directly challenging what she says, and this is mainly for if she starts attacking Hinduism. Whether to you or to other people, a falsehood is false regardless of who it is said to. More Hindus need to firmly yet compassionately strike down falsities with a straightforward presentation of the truth when dharma is attacked and disparaged. Only then will people like this lady live in their own ignorance and leave other people alone.

Jai Sri Ram

[sunyata07]

Namaste,

Believer, I have actually arranged an Om symbol on my desktop with the programs and worksheets shortcuts that I use everyday. It's inconspicuous enough that it wouldn't be deemed inappropriate, but I wonder if maybe that's being way too subtle? I will consider a physical Om symbol or miniature murti.

I have spoken to my friend about this over the weekend on what his opinion is on this person. He has met this colleague of mine before and knows all about her religious zeal and his sentiments are to tell her upfront that I'm Hindu so that it will cut straight to the chase on our differences. I won't have to deal with explaining why I'm not observing Lent or explain for the millionth time why I chose to be vegetarian.

I'm just waiting on the right moment more than anything. Honestly, Hindu or Christian, I think there is a time and a place to be discussing religion and it's not during working hours. I just don't find it professional. Maybe during my break? I'll let you know how it goes in the next few days or weeks. I'm just praying that Ganesha will grant me a chance to do this without any lasting awkwardness. My contract lasts until the end of the year.

Om namah Shivaya

[Shanti]

I'm with RamaKrishna on this. I grew up in the south and you have to lay the line down hard and fast and let them know you won't tolerate their hate or they will. not. stop.

You might be surprised at just how many people have the same views as her but just might not be as vocal.

GL!

~S

[Believer]

Namaste,

It would be interesting to know some details about growing up as a Hindu in the South. Was there lot of isolation and loneliness because of this. Did the parents of other kids try to discourage them from playing/socializing with you? At what age did you start to notice the pressure and did the push back happen right away, or you took some time to develop the spine? What was the role of parents in this drama? What was the attitude of teachers at school - did they also climb into the (religious) steamroller cage or did they pretty much keep a secular atmosphere in the classroom? What other headships came your way because of you outing yourself? Any unforgettable incidents? Why do you think you behaved differently than say Bobby Jindal, who rushed to convert.

Pranam.

PS, For those who may not know, in most of the states in the US, the area is divided into counties, but in the Catholic Louisiana, each division is called a Parish and not a county.

[Ramakrishna]

Namaste Believer-ji,

Excellent questions!

It should be duly noted that I have not lived in the South my entire life; I was born up North in New Jersey and lived there until I was 13 years old and my family moved down South to Tennessee. So while I did not spend all of my childhood here, I did go through my teenage years living in the Bible Belt.

Was there lot of isolation and loneliness because of this.

There was not much isolation and loneliness at all because I was a Hindu. As I shall explain, my identification as a Hindu actually drew people towards me.

Did the parents of other kids try to discourage them from playing/socializing with you?

As far as I know, this never occurred. However, I do remember Bryon Morrigan saying that a Catholic parent did not want her kid(s) playing with his young Hindu daughters.

At what age did you start to notice the pressure and did the push back happen right away, or you took some time to develop the spine?

I started to really notice pressure in high school. It was then that as I matured in Sanatana Dharma, young evangelical Christian morons that were classmates of mine mature in their growing stupidity as well. It did take me some time to develop the spine that led to the "push back" I described above. I initially responded to pressure implemented through covert conversion methods in a non-aggressive and even shamefully passive manner. It is no coincidence that it was at that time in my life that I had "radical universalist" views, which were no doubt a result of my lack of knowledge of Sanatana Dharma coupled with my naivety. Oddly enough, it was the pressure and aggression I felt from Christian proselytizers that led me to dive deeper into Hinduism and really explore my ancestral faith (I was raised in a pretty much semi-practicing Hindu household). Guided through my prayers to Bhagwan Krishna along with my study of the Bhagavad Gita, my consciousness began to uncover just glimpses of the beauty of Sanatana Dharma. Those glimpses of beautiful Truth, which were to sprout further in the coming years up to the present, were enough to lead me to realize the utterly nonsensical paradigm of the Abrahamic worldview, marked by dogma, hate, hypocrisy, inconsistencies, and a blatant disregard for the welfare of our Earth and the glories of Nature, all being driven by falsified notions of self-righteousness and egoism which go directly against the fundamentals of dharma.

In sum, it was the gradual accruement of the knowledge that Sanatana Dharma is the Truth, which led me to "develop the spine". For is not knowledge of the Truth the greatest defense of the Truth?

What was the role of parents in this drama?

My parents had little to no role in this, because, like I said above, I was raised in only a semi-practicing Hindu household. My father prayed everyday but my mother only on certain holidays. They both were cultural Hindus in the true sense, and always made it clear throughout the years that they didn't want me to convert. Yet, they had, if not universalist, then "overly-tolerant" views (for example, one time my brother was talking about Islam and I said that Allah is a tyrannical figure and my father became very angry at me for saying that). I did not bring to their attention any of the pressure I initially felt or the conversion attempts on me until a few years after.

What was the attitude of teachers at school - did they also climb into the (religious) steamroller cage or did they pretty much keep a secular atmosphere in the classroom?

Thankfully, this was one aspect of the experience that was not troublesome for me. I received a truly secular education, and evolution was taught freely in the classroom despite being present in a conservative Christian area.

Any unforgettable incidents?

There is one unforgettable incident that I may have shared before. There was one particular schoolmate of mine that carried out the most extensive conversion strategy on me. When he initially asked me what religion I was, I said Hinduism. He responded with a dumfounded look and said "Hinduism? Isn't that like Buddhism?"...

Another time we went out for coffee to discuss religion (keep in mind, this was during my early naively universalist days). He wanted me to explain my beliefs to him, so I spent some time explaining Sanatana Dharma to the best of my ability to him. I talked for almost two hours straight, covering topics like the Hindu deities, scriptures, beliefs like karma and reincarnation, etc. He asked the occasional question but otherwise listened intently the whole time. When I finally finished speaking, he finished drinking his coffee then looked me straight in the eyes and said, "Rajesh, you need to accept Christ"......... Is that not the perfect demonstration of the absurd doltishness of such zealously hateful evangelical Christians?

Why do you think you behaved differently than say Bobby Jindal, who rushed to convert.

I don't know much about Mr. Jindal aside from the fact that he was raised in a "Hindu household" before converting to Catholicism when he was in high school; but Hindus in general living in such circumstances being surrounded by zealous Christians need to be more knowledgeable and assertive. Like I said before, I don't mean unnecessarily argumentative or overly-aggressive, but rather less overly-passive and not clinging to radical universalist views. The tendency to show radical universalist views is especially futile because, aside from the fact of it being a misrepresentation of Hindu dharma, it does not please the Christian proselytizers. For them, believing that Christ is the only son of God and Christianity is the only way is absolutely necessary. Holding universalist views to appease them is useless because they will still try to convert you to accept only Jesus. Of course, being a radical universalist who is still culturally Hindu is still better than the route that Mr. Jindal took, which was converting fully away from Sanatana Dharma, abandoning his cultural roots and becoming a traitor of dharma.


Hopefully the sharing of my experiences will be of at least some benefit to others who have/are struggling with living as a Hindu in a tough environment. I am a strong believer in Hindu unity, and a key facet of that is for the Hindu diaspora to hold on to Sanatana Dharma in the face of never-ending attacks by zealous Abrahamics.

Jai Sri Ram

[jignyAsu]

Another time we went out for coffee to discuss religion (keep in mind, this was during my early naively universalist days). He wanted me to explain my beliefs to him, so I spent some time explaining Sanatana Dharma to the best of my ability to him. I talked for almost two hours straight, covering topics like the Hindu deities, scriptures, beliefs like karma and reincarnation, etc. He asked the occasional question but otherwise listened intently the whole time. When I finally finished speaking, he finished drinking his coffee then looked me straight in the eyes and said, "Rajesh, you need to accept Christ"......... Is that not the perfect demonstration of the absurd doltishness of such zealously hateful evangelical Christians?

ROFL. And you can guess what all went on in his head when he was hearing
you. My friend once showed me a video of Simpson's monkey brain and somehow the incident reminded me of that.

On the brighter side, if the young generation can still subscribe to such a philosophy(if any), then many should have no problem accepting ours. I once saw a video where few young people still believe that the world is only 5000 years.

I found your story and journey very interesting.

[Equinox]

Vannakkam Ramakrishna,

Guided through my prayers to Bhagwan Krishna along with my study of the Bhagavad Gita, my consciousness began to uncover just glimpses of the beauty of Sanatana Dharma. Those glimpses of beautiful Truth, which were to sprout further in the coming years up to the present, were enough to lead me to realize the utterly nonsensical paradigm of the Abrahamic worldview, marked by dogma, hate, hypocrisy, inconsistencies, and a blatant disregard for the welfare of our Earth and the glories of Nature, all being driven by falsified notions of self-righteousness and egoism which go directly against the fundamentals of dharma.

In sum, it was the gradual accruement of the knowledge that Sanatana Dharma is the Truth, which led me to "develop the spine". For is not knowledge of the Truth the greatest defense of the Truth?

Well said!

My parents had little to no role in this, because, like I said above, I was raised in only a semi-practicing Hindu household. My father prayed everyday but my mother only on certain holidays. They both were cultural Hindus in the true sense, and always made it clear throughout the years that they didn't want me to convert. Yet, they had, if not universalist, then "overly-tolerant" views...

I definitely understand how it is. My background is almost identical.

When I finally finished speaking, he finished drinking his coffee then looked me straight in the eyes and said, "Rajesh, you need to accept Christ".........

They just can't get it.


Oh well...

...but Hindus in general living in such circumstances being surrounded by zealous Christians need to be more knowledgeable and assertive. Like I said before, I don't mean unnecessarily argumentative or overly-aggressive, but rather less overly-passive and not clinging to radical universalist views. The tendency to show radical universalist views is especially futile because, aside from the fact of it being a misrepresentation of Hindu dharma, it does not please the Christian proselytizers. For them, believing that Christ is the only son of God and Christianity is the only way is absolutely necessary. Holding universalist views to appease them is useless because they will still try to convert you to accept only Jesus. Of course, being a radical universalist who is still culturally Hindu is still better than the route that Mr. Jindal took, which was converting fully away from Sanatana Dharma, abandoning his cultural roots and becoming a traitor of dharma.

Very true. The same can be said of Islam and its Muslims too. At present, Muslims in most Asian countries are more if not as aggressive as Christians in the aforementioned situations.

Hopefully the sharing of my experiences will be of at least some benefit to others who have/are struggling with living as a Hindu in a tough environment. I am a strong believer in Hindu unity, and a key facet of that is for the Hindu diaspora to hold on to Sanatana Dharma in the face of never-ending attacks by zealous Abrahamics.

Thank you for that, Ramakrishna! It's assuring to know that I'm not alone in this thought.



Aum Namah Shivaya

[Equinox]

Vannakkam,


I can relate to some of the posts here, although I have never myself given such issues much thought in the past, which is quite surprising for someone who actually grew up in a multiracial and multireligious society. It's probably due to the fact that here, in Malaysia and Singapore, we've learnt to live with each other peacefully and to never openly condemn or criticise other races and religions or to proselytise our beliefs onto anyone, unless maybe they ask for it. And that has been going on for at least four to five generations already. It has become a complex process of understanding and eventually became the social norm over the generations.

Of course, the fine, intricate balance between racial relationships with its infinite complexities may be disrupted occasionally from time to time, especially with increasing Islamic fundamentalist views, and on top of that, the growing contempt and political aggression of the Chinese and Indian Malaysians demanding their right for equality and fair play in all spheres of life(education, scholarships, employment, etc). Malaysia is one of the few countries in the world where the ethnic majority community(Malay Muslims) still benefit from the quota system. This would remind you of the situation in India, where the minority communities are the beneficiaries of the quota system instead, while the Hindu majority must keep silent and be accommodating. Now this gets me angry with the situation in India.


Recalling from my own past, growing up in Malaysia, there were only two occasions in which I was personally confronted with religious issues. The first happened when I was 14, at school in lower secondary, during my Living Skills lesson.....by the teacher himself. A Malay Muslim from a northeastern state of Malaysia, he would no doubt be very religious and orthodox in his views. He was a good teacher, but I never expected him to say the things he did. My class had some Indian(Hindu, Christian), Chinese(Buddhist, Christian, Taoist) and Malay students.

He started suddenly, out of the blue, by exclaiming how Islam was the real 'true' religion, the final truth. He gave Malaysia as an example. It went like this: "First Hindu and Buddhist kingdoms rose and fell here, all the Malays were Hindus and Buddhists back then. After that the European colonialists came to spread Christianity, but today, Islam is the main religion here." He also mentioned how Islam was the last major religion to be revealed, after Hinduism, Buddhism and Christianity. In his mind, Islam is the latest version of truth perhaps. He probably listened to a religious lecture by an ulama(mullah) at some mosque the day before. Thus the sudden need to say those things. I was sitting in the front row with my Chinese friends, and we were shocked with what he just said, but we didn't say anything. Nobody expected that and we were caught off guard, giving our full attention to him. I felt like telling him that he shouldn't be speaking of such things in class, but didn't. I lacked the 'backbone, spine' which Ramakrishna mentioned of in his post. I was only 14 then, and was just beginning to get interested in Hinduism. I was also quite universalist and never faced such a situation before.

I remembered turning very red, but didn't want to look him in the eye, lest he senses the obvious disgust and shock in my eyes. Why should I look at such people anyway, talking nonsense like its a fact. Despite trying to keep very cool and natural, that very defiance, coupled with my intimidating, erect poise, with my head turned slightly away from him, yet looking straight ahead without meeting his eye, unfortunately attracted him to me. I was unprepared for what he would do next. All of a sudden he approached me in lightning speed, and then I felt him standing right beside me. I still didn't look at him. That was when he popped the question:

"Vijay......... Are you circumcised? You're Hindu aren't you? So I guess you're not circumcised."

LOL

Now rage and disgust mixed with embarrassment. I couldn't even bring myself to smile at that. How he had the courage to ask such a question, in front of my classmates too, I do not know. My friends were all equally shocked and were quiet. They didn't even laugh at least a little, like I was expecting them to, to cool down the situation. It was scary. I mean, nobody speaks about such things, especially a teacher. When it was clear to him that I wasn't going to look at him, he exclaimed to the others instead:

"I'm circumcised, because I'm Muslim."

Who cares. Are Muslims the only ones entitled to circumcision? He then walked off to the front and continued the lesson. He was a good teacher, but I lost my respect for him after that incident. My Indian and Chinese friends didn't comment anything about it, and we acted like nothing happened, but I could sense their anger and discomfort, and my Malay Muslim classmates on the other hand, no doubt, felt embarrassed with what the teacher just said. It was like promoting his own religion. How could he even do that to us? Innocent and naive 14 year-olds. I was too patient I guess.

The whole thing was quite irritating. I didn't tell anyone about it though, not even to other Hindu teachers or my parents, although I could have complained. I felt it was too immature and that he was probably in some "Muslim-superiority-complex-mood" then. I wonder if my Hindu classmates complained to their parents. They were probably more naive than me when it came to Hinduism I guess. About a year later there was a huge rally of Malaysian Indians in Kuala Lumpur, against the Malaysian government, the first of its kind. I guess the teacher's behaviour could have had something to do with that, he perhaps knew what was coming. I wasn't so angry when it took place, but thinking back now, I feel really angry and wish I had the guts to tell him off then. What was he thinking?


The Malays, for obvious reasons (and rightfully so), blame the British colonial 'masters' for their present situation in Malaysia. The British had in mind to remain for as long as possible in their colonies so that they could make more money and to greedily loot all the resources they could in order to fund their industrial revolution back in Britain. To fulfill that, labourers and miners were imported from India and China respectively, to work the rubber plantations and tin mines, as well as to lay the railroads. The plan was to leave out the majority Malays from mainstream development so that they don't become smart and powerful and form an uprising against their colonial 'masters' to demand for independence. Subsequently, when the British were finally content with their loot and couldn't sustain the colonies anymore, 'declared' independence, handing over the government to the 3 majority races(Malays, Chinese, Indians), but with more power and privileges to the Malays due to them being the majority and original occupants of the country. This would form the basis of the racial problems arising in Malaysia today.

In addition to that, the Malays today feel that they are lagging behind other races in terms of socioeconomic development, because the British cunningly kept them away. Due to this, they implemented the quota system, in order to become equal with other races, most of whom, ironically, are far behind the Malays themselves in terms of development (Estate Tamils). Although this system was supposed to be removed a few years ago on the fact that the Malays have become 'equal' in terms of wealth and employment, their politicians argue and insist that they're still far behind, and thus the system is still in force. The Chinese, mostly tin miners, on the other hand, are industrious and can survive in any situation, so they could pull themselves out of poverty and not suffer like the estate Indians here. In fact, that was exactly how Singapore was formed, when the Chinese realised they were not going to be treated as equals by the Malays after independence and eventually suggested to split the country. That was 48 years ago.

Working-class Indian Tamils (descendants of the estate plantation labourers), on the other hand, seemed to realise their situation in this country only 7 years ago. They feel that the British failed to give them estate land shares as supposedly promised before luring them over to work as labourers in the then Malaya, and left them stranded here to fend for themselves after granting Malaya independence, without leaving them a secure position in this country after using them as labourers, which in turn caused them to be increasingly marginalised by the present Malay Muslim-majority government. They started an uprising 7 years ago and even sued the Queen and British government for leaving them here. They also feel that the succeeding Malaysian government failed to uplift them from poverty and treat them fairly. Their fight goes on, at the expense of all Malaysian Indians, leading to increased tension between Malays and Indians, and in turn Hinduism becomes the victim.

After living in harmony for many years, only in the last 10 years did we see actual racial and religious problems arising between Indians and Malays, compared to the Chinese and Malays, who had their problems and killing sprees back in 1969. There seems to be a lot of distrust between Indians and Malays these days.

We continue to live in harmony though, maintaining that intricate relationship. Most of us hardly talk about religion at all, let alone preach and proselytise. It's quite a sensitive issue. But if you're weak in your own religion and want to convert, I'm sure there'll be Christian and Muslim proselytisers waiting. The Malays, like most native Southeast Asians, are one of the most humble and down-to-Earth people you could ever meet. They feel they were treated unfairly by the British, and so need privileges now, and that is in turn unfair to non-Malays, because we didn't do anything wrong and just want equality. Differing opinions on the basis of race and religion is something all of us grew up with from an early age, but we are always careful to not step on each others toes, choosing to tread lightly on such topics instead, if it ever arises.

The reason I gave this piece of history lecture was to illustrate the complexity of relationships between the main Malaysian races and religions and how decisions made 150 years ago, mostly by the irresponsible British, would eventually lead to the growing racial and religious problems today in a peaceful country like Malaysia, especially between Hindus and Muslims. For fear of making Malaysian Indians proud of Hinduism, the Malays also tend to disregard and try their best to erase their own Hindu past due to this, unlike Indonesians and Thais, who are proud of their ancient Hindu heritage. So intricate are the relationships.



The second incident took place in university about 2 years ago, when I was discussing with a friend at the campus cafe. She's Muslim. I forgot how the discussion came to this, but we began at something else initially. I told her I was going to temple later after class, and she asked me, matter-of-factly, in a sarcastic smiling face:

"How many gods do you guys have?"

I was a bit baffled and sort of knew where it was heading to. In all my naivety and unpreparedness and patience for what was to come, I told her "33 million".

She started laughing and then exclaimed:

"Wow, even if you pray to one god each day you will never be able to complete praying to all 33 million gods."

Lol whatever.

Then I started explaining to her the real meanings and concepts behind the 33 million gods, and she went on to say that she respects people who are steadfast in their religion. I made it a point to never bring religion into our conversation ever again.


So yea, those were my 2 experiences so far.



Aum Namah Shivaya

[Believer]

Namaste,

Equinox, thanks for sharing your experiences.

There are a couple of things that I tend to differ on.

First one, the statement that Indonesians are proud of their Hindu heritage/past - I am not sure what is this opinion based on, but I saw a different reality when I was there last year. The Balinese Hindus cherish their religion although their observances and their temples and quite different from how Hindus do things in rest of the world. Rest of the Muslim population does not give a hoot about Hinduism. In fact on other islands, Hindus cannot build temples, and must declare themselves to be Muslims on their ID cards for their personal safety. Conversions are on the rise and many a Hindu have thrown in the towel because of economic or safety issue. Perhaps you can tell me where does your information come from.

Second, in Singapore, the drinking water comes from Malaysia. This dependence forces the govt. to be accommodating to the Malays. With a large influx of muslims from Malaysia, who all tend to have large families, the demographics are changing. So, even though things are peaceful and everybody gets along with each other, the Singaporean society is going through a radical change. How do you see all this from your vantage point?

Pranam.

[Equinox]

Vannakkam Believer,

Namaste,

Equinox, thanks for sharing your experiences.

There are a couple of things that I tend to differ on.

First one, the statement that Indonesians are proud of their Hindu heritage/past - I am not sure what is this opinion based on, but I saw a different reality when I was there last year. The Balinese Hindus cherish their religion although their observances and their temples and quite different from how Hindus do things in rest of the world. Rest of the Muslim population does not give a hoot about Hinduism. In fact on other islands, Hindus cannot build temples, and must declare themselves to be Muslims on their ID cards for their personal safety. Conversions are on the rise and many a Hindu have thrown in the towel because of economic or safety issue. Perhaps you can tell me where does your information come from.

Second, in Singapore, the drinking water comes from Malaysia. This dependence forces the govt. to be accommodating to the Malays. With a large influx of muslims from Malaysia, who all tend to have large families, the demographics are changing. So, even though things are peaceful and everybody gets along with each other, the Singaporean society is going through a radical change. How do you see all this from your vantage point?

Pranam.

In Indonesia, while the stuff you mentioned of might be happening in some sections of society, I've also heard and read of reconversions from Islam back to Hinduism recently. I read this in an article online some time back but can't seem to find it now.

It roughly stated that in some parts of Sumatra and Java, the once Hindu population in some villages are reconverting back to Hinduism from Islam, because they feel a closer affinity towards Hinduism, since it was practiced by their ancestors, unlike Islam, which was forced on them halfway through. They are backed by Megawati Sukarnoputri, if you've heard of her. Cases like this are on the rise in other parts of Indonesia as well, since some of them don't feel connected to Islam at all and more comfortable reverting back to Hinduism.

What I also stated in the earlier post was meant for the Muslim population of Indonesia. They still use Hindu and Sanskrit names, unlike Malaysian Malays who stopped using Hindu names 6 to 7 generations ago. Names like Savitri, Dewi, Kusuma, Vijaya and hundreds more are still the norm for Indonesians, though they're Muslims. They also end their names with "-wati" and similar Hindu sounding names. Malaysian Malays would never give such names a second thought anymore. Besides that, Indonesian Muslims also have Hindu symbols everywhere, the Garuda being the name of the national airline. They also maintain and preserve their ancient temples, Prambanan, Borobudur and many more. Yes, there might be many who are fundamentalist Islamic in thinking, but they're still very connected to their Hindu roots. Hinduism has influenced Indonesian society in almost every aspect.

Ganesha even appears in their currency notes. How can they not be proud of their Hindu heritage if the majority of them allow that? I heard that the Malaysian government told them remove Ganesh from the note. Don't know what happened though. Whatever the case, the Indonesians are definitely more proud of their Hindu heritage compared to Malaysian Malays, who try to distance themselves from it, for fear of exciting the present Indian Hindus of Malaysia.

About the situation in Singapore and the solution for that, I've PMed you, for I'm not comfortable sharing the information I have so openly here.



Aum Namah Shivaya