Should one give up all desire?

[Abhishek]

From the Bhagvat Gita
(3.36)Arjuna says: Prompted by what do we commit sin almost as if unwilling, forced against one's will?
Krishna says: It is desire. As fire is covered by smoke, as mirror by dust as an embryo by amnion, similarly Knowledge is covered by desire.

By my personal observations I have come to notice that too much desire does make the mind difficult to control. Especially disturbing is uncontrolled desire, randomly wanting everything it sees. Hence it is follows that such desire weakens my discrimination and results in self destructive action (which is my definition of sin). But there is also desire for learning and knowledge and the desire to know the truth. Is this desire also harmful? Does that mean one should even give up the desire to know God?

However, the question of what action is beneficial and what action is harmful is dealt with more elaboration. One is advised to perform obligatory action as mentioned in the scriptures. But a similar
explanation on desire is what I am looking for. Isn't a Yogi's intense Sadhana a manifestation of his intense yearning for freedom? Isn't the desire to know God actually propelling one towards Yoga. How can then that desire be self destructive? If such desire is not self destructive then how do we know what desire is good and what desire is bad?

[atanu]

From the Bhagvat Gita
(3.36)Arjuna says: Prompted by what do we commit sin almost as if unwilling, forced against one's will?
Krishna says: It is desire. As fire is covered by smoke, as mirror by dust as an embryo by amnion, similarly Knowledge is covered by desire.

By my personal observations I have come to notice that too much desire does make the mind difficult to control. Especially disturbing is uncontrolled desire, randomly wanting everything it sees. Hence it is follows that such desire weakens my discrimination and results in self destructive action (which is my definition of sin). But there is also desire for learning and knowledge and the desire to know the truth. Is this desire also harmful? Does that mean one should even give up the desire to know God?

However, the question of what action is beneficial and what action is harmful is dealt with more elaboration. One is advised to perform obligatory action as mentioned in the scriptures. But a similar
explanation on desire is what I am looking for. Isn't a Yogi's intense Sadhana a manifestation of his intense yearning for freedom? Isn't the desire to know God actually propelling one towards Yoga. How can then that desire be self destructive? If such desire is not self destructive then how do we know what desire is good and what desire is bad?

Namaskar,

Sattwik desires are good. Gita gives a detailed account of each type of Gunas (14th Chapter). When a desire is very strong, by which the discrimination between good and pleasure is lost is Tamasic. Desires related to upliftment of ego I, are generally rajasic.


2.45. The Vedas deal with the three attributes (of Nature); be thou above these three attributes, O Arjuna! Free yourself from the pairs of opposites and ever remain in the quality of Sattwa (goodness), freed from the thought of acquisition and preservation, and be established in the Self.

14.17. From Sattwa arises knowledge, and greed from Rajas; heedlessness and delusion arise from Tamas, and ignorance also.

18.20. That by which one sees the one indestructible Reality in all beings, not separate in all the separate beings—know thou that knowledge to be Sattwic (pure).

Om Namah Shivayya

[Abhishek]

Namaskar,

Sattwik desires are good. Gita gives a detailed account of each type of Gunas (14th Chapter). When a desire is very strong, by which the discrimination between good and pleasure is lost is Tamasic. Desires related to upliftment of ego I, are generally rajasic.

Om Namah Shivayya

Namaste Atanuji,

Yes I agree. Think this is a good way of knowing what desire to be good. But Sattva, Rajas and Tamas are characteristics of the mind and not of the object of desire. I mean the same object can be carved with Sattva, Rajas and Tamas by different people. For example Hunger. A Tamsic hunger could be wild and unmannerly. Rajasic could be more tempered but still with carving for sensory stimulation. Sattvic hunger, however, would be controlled both on the surface and within and with a clinical perspective of maintaining the body.

That means that Good, Bad, Harmful and Helpful are not aspects of the-object-of-desire but of the desire itself. Hence different people can desire the same object in different ways. And if we stretch this possibility a little more, we can say that it is possible to desire even God Tamsically. Judging a desire only from the nature of the object is incomplete and invalid.

Would you agree with this?

[atanu]

Namaste Atanuji,

Yes I agree. Think this is a good way of knowing what desire to be good. But Sattva, Rajas and Tamas are characteristics of the mind and not of the object of desire. I mean the same object can be carved with Sattva, Rajas and Tamas by different people. For example Hunger. A Tamsic hunger could be wild and unmannerly. Rajasic could be more tempered but still with carving for sensory stimulation. Sattvic hunger, however, would be controlled both on the surface and within and with a clinical perspective of maintaining the body.

That means that Good, Bad, Harmful and Helpful are not aspects of the-object-of-desire but of the desire itself. Hence different people can desire the same object in different ways. And if we stretch this possibility a little more, we can say that it is possible to desire even God Tamsically. Judging a desire only from the nature of the object is incomplete and invalid.

Would you agree with this?

Yes I agree, in general.

It may be possible to desire God tamasically, yet, a distinction needs to be made. Is God the object of tamasic desire or something else?

Om Namah Shivayya

[sm78]

Judging a desire only from the nature of the object is incomplete and invalid.

To an extent ... desire to watch pornography cannot be sattwic for instance.

[Abhishek]

Is God the object of tamasic desire or something else?

Om Namah Shivayya

I will read that question as "Can God be the object of Tamsic desire?" That could be interesting investigation. But I am afraid I don't know the answer. It would depend on the circumstances. But please undrstand that when I say "God can be desired Tamsically" that it is only a theoretical inference without any mention of how probable it is.

Thank you for being so patient. But I have another question to ask regarding the same sloka. So desire is the root of sin. But isn't sin also an action? Actions are either sinful or virtuous. So What is the root of virtuous action? Is it desire again?

[Abhishek]

To an extent ... desire to watch pornography cannot be sattwic for instance.

I would again say that it would be circumstantial. I am unable to give an instance where watching P o r n could be Satwik. But I would not allow that to reject the possibility entirely. Because the inability to exemplify could also be because of my lack of imagination.

[atanu]

----So desire is the root of sin. But isn't sin also an action? Actions are either sinful or virtuous. So What is the root of virtuous action? Is it desire again?

Namaskar,

This generalization was not stated, though in general, desires are obstacles to a calm mind. None will disagree here.

Some people may show excessive reformer zeal, assuming that "I only know". Under such circumstance a good task is also rajasic.

Actions (and desires) springing from a settled knowledge as below cannot, however, be bad.

18.20. That by which one sees the one indestructible Reality in all beings, not separate in all the separate beings—know thou that knowledge to be Sattwic (pure).

It also depends on the state of the seeker. A sadhaka seeking to go into samadhi cannot entertain any desire. In this case the mind has to be like in deep sleep.

Regarding the question: So What is the root of virtuous action? Is it desire again?, I would suggest that it may be good to enquire: Who has the desire?

Om Namah Shivayya

[Znanna]

I would again say that it would be circumstantial. I am unable to give an instance where watching P o r n could be Satwik. But I would not allow that to reject the possibility entirely. Because the inability to exemplify could also be because of my lack of imagination.

I could

I'll sum up as follows - the notion of losing control and surrendering to the lack of time/space translates no matter the language.


ZN

[Abhishek]

It also depends on the state of the seeker. A sadhaka seeking to go into samadhi cannot entertain any desire. In this case the mind has to be like in deep sleep.

Om Namah Shivayya

Namaste Atanuji,

Yes it definitely depends on the state of the person in question. I think this is one of the most important point most of us miss. As you said for one trying to go into Samadhi one can not have any desire. But I would also like to add that on the other hand for a person only beginning to enter spiritual life an attempt to give up all desire would, in the extreme majority of cases, be either impossible or dangerous.