Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 35

Thread: subtleties in the gītā

  1. #21

    Re: subtleties in the gītā

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namast

    When the Lord speaks of eating, it is the notion of feeding the senses; this includes the tongue, but is not exclusive to what one puts into their digestive track. It is what's taken in by the eyes, ears, nose, etc. He is speaking to us about not being excessive in habits.
    He calls for moderation and uses the term yukta in the next śloka (6, 17th śloka).

    Now this too, also has a subtler meaning. Yukta means 'fit , suitable , appropriate , proper , right', yet it also means 'yoked or joined or fastened or attached or harnessed'. What then can be the deeper meaning here?

    iti śivaṁ
    If by "eating," The Lord meant sense gratification in general, then (according to you), the verse really means, "there is no possibility of yoga for he who has too much sense gratification or for he who has too little sense gratification."

    The first half of the statement would be easy to accept, while the second half would not. The Vedic and Puraanic tradition is full of Rishis who deny themselves the pleasures of the senses and yet attain the highest goal. Although there is no question that outward renunciation while inward meditation on the pleasures of the senses brings only disaster, the successful yogi who renounces enjoyment of the objects of the senses and remains mentally disinterested in them does not fail in the path of yoga.

    I would probably go with Lord Krishna's literal words on this one. Everyone has to eat - even the most renounced Rishis will live on leaves, air, and water, but it is something.
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  2. #22
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    67
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    187

    Re: subtleties in the gītā

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namast

    Let's look at another... chapter 2, 69th verse:
    That which is night for all beings, therein the self-controlled (saṃyamī) is awake; that wherein beings are awake is night for
    the sage (muni) that sees.

    What is kṛṣṇa-jī telling us? That the realized person sleeps during the day and is up at night ? There must be more to this then meets the eye.

    iti śivaṁ

    1.saṃyamī = saṃyam = ( the person) in control, held together ; to hold together , hold in , hold fast , restrain , curb , control , govern the senses
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  3. #23

    Re: subtleties in the gītā

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namast

    Let's look at another... chapter 2, 69th verse:
    That which is night for all beings, therein the self-controlled (saṃyamī) is awake; that wherein beings are awake is night for
    the sage (muni) that sees.

    What is kṛṣṇa-jī telling us? That the realized person sleeps during the day and is up at night ? There must be more to this then meets the eye.

    iti śivaṁ

    1.saṃyamī = saṃyam = ( the person) in control, held together ; to hold together , hold in , hold fast , restrain , curb , control , govern the senses
    No, He is merely referring to the different tastes of the materialist compared to the yogi. What enlivens the yogi bores the materialist and vice-versa.
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  4. #24
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    67
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    187

    Re: subtleties in the gītā

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namast


    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post

    Let's look at another... chapter 2, 69th verse:
    That which is night for all beings, therein the self-controlled (saṃyamī) is awake; that wherein beings are awake is night for
    the sage (muni) that sees.
    Let's look at a few ideas...
    • the sage (muni) that sees = ~sees~ or is aligned with Reality, with truth, with Being itself.
    • night = ignorance; some would say it too is aligned to māyā and therefore keeps people in the dark, but not the sage that ~sees~.
    • wherein beings are awake is night for the sage = this is a bit more interesting; beings that are 'awake' suggests the ones that
      are awake in the senses; where the senses drive a person from action to action. For the saṃyamī this is 'night' , that is dormant, of little interest, as he/she is possessed of the Self. They the 'awakened ones' or sthiapraja move within the realm of the senses but are not attached to the objects of the senses.
    So, here is my next question... We have those that are ignorant, and we have those that are realized , the 'awakened ones' or sthiapraja .
    In the middle we have those that wish to become awake, and we call them tapasvin-s. What of them ? What of the tapasvin experience
    in life (kurukṣetra) ? How does the world look to them ?

    iti śivaṁ
    • It is interesting to note that this is the 71st śloka in the gitārta saṁgraha , from abhinavagupta-ji
    • saṃyamī = saṃyam = ( the person) in control, held together ; to hold together , hold in , hold fast , restrain , curb , control , govern the senses
    Last edited by yajvan; 27 March 2013 at 02:39 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  5. #25
    Join Date
    September 2008
    Location
    Sri. Valkalam, Kerala, SI
    Posts
    604
    Rep Power
    968

    Re: subtleties in the gītā

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namast


    So, here is my next question... We have those that are ignorant, and we have those that are realized , the 'awakened ones' or sthiapraja .
    In the middle we have those that wish to become awake, and we call them tapasvin-s. What of them ? What of the tapasvin experience
    in life (kurukṣetra) ? How does the world look to them ?

    iti śivaṁ
    • It is interesting to note that this is the 71st śloka in the gitārta saṁgraha , from abhinavagupta-ji
    • saṃyamī = saṃyam = ( the person) in control, held together ; to hold together , hold in , hold fast , restrain , curb , control , govern the senses

    Dear Yajvan,


    • The ignorant ones are engrossed in nescience, Avidya.

    • The tapasvin, is similar or bear likeness to the one in the field of Vidya, who holds Knowledge in true and absolutist sense.

      However, even when they see truth they will fail to uphold it. When they see goodness they will be helpless to preserve it, because their discipline is one-sided.


      The knowledge of the actual (YatharthaJnana) should be distinguished from the Paramartha Jnana, which means, the knowledge of Ultimate Meaning.

      Those who rejoice in the world of ignorance (Avidya) live in darkness. Those who take delight in the world of knowledge (Vidya) live, as it were, in a greater darkness (Isa: 9)

    • And we have those that are realized, who have distinguished themselves from the paradox of Vidya and Avidya, the sthiapraja as we spoken of. Love

    ॐ इदम् न मम
    be just l we happy

  6. #26
    Join Date
    March 2006
    Location
    Govinda Lokam
    Age
    40
    Posts
    738
    Rep Power
    347

    Re: subtleties in the gītā

    Quote Originally Posted by charitra View Post
    Why the time and place (in between the two senas (armies)), within the earshot of Kouravas AND Pandavas? Well, simply because KRISHNA WANTED IT THAT WAY. The sacred wisdom to be imparted to the warring senas of both the kouravas and Pandavas alike. Divine knowledge is meant for treading the path of the moksha for ALL sentient beings to adopt.
    Private audience only was never the intended meaning of the texts. We have to be cognizant of the larger picture and should not be clouded by our own personal (effort and) accomplishments when we try to define the PURPOSE OF THE TEXTS like Gita, Vedopanishads and when we DEFINE the INTENDED TARGET AUDIENCES of the preachers of those texts. The great sages and rishis presumably wanted every sentient being to be enlightened by the wisdom packed in these invaluable treasures. It is however possible the wise men and women of the yore didnt want dubious characters to misread, misinterpret and mispreach those sacred verses , the likes of Ravana Parabrahma for instance. I saw a famous British comedian and a talkshow host sporting a large Krishna tattoo on his left shoulder stating on TV how he remained sober and clean for almost 10 yrs thanks to his meditation and yoga practice , he is not aspiring to become a preacher, he was able to exercise enormous self control, thanks to Krishna. ISKCON works hard to spread the message of Gita tirelessly and some people who received Gita in the streets have had their lives changed forever by just reading it. Namaste.
    There is a reason why the secrets of making atomic bombs is not made public. All the universities demand certain qualifications for admission. Why not admit every one, without any pre-requisites? Let us be kind to every one!

    Why there should not be any qualifying tests for studying or practising spirituality or bhagavad gita? The idea of religeous knowledge or the secrets of yoga being made available to all and sundry is a very diluted and actually harmful thought process. If you can't put into practice the teachings of one shloka of BG in your practical life, what exactly is your eligibility to study this shAstra?

    Bhagavad Gita is much more than a discussion between a teacher and a disciple about to wage an all destructive war. Certainly a battle field is the last place on earth on which to deliver a sermon on the Atman.

    The war here is purely spiritual, and kuruxetra denoting the mahA-vedi, the bhruvormadhya or the Ajna chakra or the mahA-smashAna is explained in our scriptures. The whole context here is about the internal yogic war that is going to be waged at the higher flights of religion, far removed from the mundane world. The eighteen chapters of the Gita describe the eighteen ladders of the yogic process, starting from arjuna-viShAda (which is the first limb of the yoga described in the Gita).

    If you have noticed already, the number eighteen is a common theme of Mahabharata - eighteen parvas, eighteen chapters of Gita, eighteen akshauhinis of war, kuruxetra war lasting exactly eighteen days and so on. The number eighteen is a mystic number in this context and all these eighteen based ideas are intentionally included to convey an important spiritual idea. jaya, which is another name of Mahabharata denotes eighteen as well according to the kaTapayAdi samkhya ( ja = 8, ya =1).

    This number eighteen stands for the sUxma deha of eighteen yogic principles: - five karmendriya-s, five jnAnendriya-s, five prANa-s, manas, buddhi, and ahaMkAra. The numeric symbol eighteen is used in Mahabharata to convey the tAtparya of Mahabharata (jaya or victory) as sharIra vijnAna (yogic science of the microcosm) dealing with the victory over the sUxma-sharIra.
    Guard your Dharma, Burn the Myth, Promote the Truth, Crush the superstition.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    67
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    187

    Re: subtleties in the gītā

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namast

    Quote Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
    This number eighteen stands for the sUxma deha of eighteen yogic principles: - five karmendriya-s, five jnAnendriya-s, five prANa-s, manas, buddhi, and ahaMkAra. The numeric symbol eighteen is used in Mahabharata to convey the tAtparya of Mahabharata (jaya or victory) as sharIra vijnAna (yogic science of the microcosm) dealing with the victory over the sUxma-sharIra.

    This notion of 18 also is discussed here : http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...7&postcount=32 and continues within the string.

    iti śivaṁ
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  8. #28
    Join Date
    February 2012
    Age
    63
    Posts
    1,520
    Rep Power
    2712

    Re: subtleties in the gītā

    Namaste

    Buddhiyoga is described as a yoga of the intellect. And yet, doesnt the Gita itself designate the soul (e.g. individual consciousness) has its own, higher status than the intellect?

    BG 3:42
    The Senses (indriyani) are superior to sense objects
    The Mind (manah) is superior to the Senses
    The Intellect (buddhih) is superior to the Mind
    And that which is superior to the Intellect is Atman (sah) of Individual Consciousness

    There is a clear hierarchy described here. With the soul as the most superior, all the other lesser three, the senses, mind and intellect, are controlled by the soul. This verse comes immediately after the previous verse where Krishna recommends to control the senses which can destroy the mind and intellect if the soul is not realized.

    SAH (Soul? Individual Consciousness?)
    |
    BUDDHI or Intellect
    |
    MIND
    |
    SENSES
    |
    SENSE OBJECTS
    But how do you interpret sah?

    Because the very next verse afterward 3:43, Krishna says to Arjun that by knowing what is superior to the intellect one will steady the mind and conquer lust. And what is that which is superior? Sah.

    What is the best way to describe sah?

    Om Namah Sivaya

  9. #29
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    67
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    187

    Re: subtleties in the gītā

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namast

    Quote Originally Posted by ShivaFan View Post
    But how do you interpret “sah”?
    What you ask is quite enriching to one's understanding... within kaśmir śaivism this saḥ and sauis held in high regard...

    It is said, as among figures, the 4-armed viṣṇu, the 3-eyed śiva, etc. among spirituous liquors, surā, āsava etc. lead one
    forcibly as it were to the state of Bhairava, among all the akṣara (~ phonemes, sounds, letters) 'sa' leads to the state of Bhairava.

    Why then is this is mantra sauand saḥ so attractive to consider?

    The parā-trīśikā vivaraṇa 19th śloka offers this to us....
    It says:
    adṛṣṭamandalo'pi evaṃ yaḥ
    kaścid vetti tattvataḥ sa
    siddhibhāgbhaven nityaṃ
    sa yogī sa ca dīkṣitaḥ ||

    this says,
    whosoever knows truly ( this bīja-mantra sauḥ ) even if he has not seen (adṛṣṭa) the mandala, enjoys the success (yaḥ kaścid) of perfection (siddhi) eternally.
    He is (perfect) yogī, he is (really) (~ vetti or vedi - wise man) initiated (dīkṣitaḥ).

    More can be said ... this sauḥ is considered amṛtabīja. For a more in-depth review of this most noble sound, please consider the following HDF post: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=3808

    iti śivaṁ

    1. 'It is said' is from the āgamādhikāra 2a.12, referenced in Parā-trīśikā Vivaraṇa's review of śloka-s 9-18
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  10. #30
    Join Date
    February 2012
    Age
    63
    Posts
    1,520
    Rep Power
    2712

    Re: subtleties in the gītā

    Namaste yajvan, thank you so much, wonderful!
    Om Namah Sivaya

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. War in the Bhagavad Gita
    By Jeffery D. Long in forum Bhagavad Gita
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 10 December 2013, 12:28 PM
  2. Śiva Gītā
    By Agnideva in forum Shaiva
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 19 December 2012, 07:27 PM
  3. bhāgavad gītā - research
    By yajvan in forum Bhagavad Gita
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 14 August 2011, 12:12 PM
  4. Beginning to study Bhagavad Gita
    By wcrow in forum Bhagavad Gita
    Replies: 45
    Last Post: 26 June 2011, 05:35 AM
  5. Chapters of the Bhāgavad gītā
    By yajvan in forum Bhagavad Gita
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 08 April 2010, 07:08 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •