Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 43

Thread: Some Personal Thoughts

  1. #1
    Join Date
    July 2010
    Location
    The Holy Land - India
    Posts
    2,735
    Rep Power
    5326

    Some Personal Thoughts

    Namaste,

    When someone in the forum has a question, we attempt to answer it to the best of our abilities. Since we all come from different backgrounds, the responses are also varied and sometimes conflicting. It appears that we have different specialities - some are very literate in scriptures, others have a lifetime of experience to draw upon, and some possess a mix of the two. Some questions are area specific - the answers may be applicable either to residents of India or of those residing in the Western world. Would it not be advisable to choose questions pertaining to our area of expertise, or at least areas we have some knowledge of before jumping in to make a post. For example, I am a HDF shudra who tends to stay near the feet of the forum section listings, leaving the hallowed upper reaches to those who have deep scriptural knowledge. I tend to mix the general Hindu philosophy with a lifetime of personal experiences and intuition to make posts. People with brahminical qualities/bend could opt out of tackling mundane posts on everyday news events/politics. People with actual yoga/ayurveda/jyotish etc. experience could choose to answer questions from their fields. Of course, many a times, questions involve overlapping backgrounds, in which case there will be advice from different perspectives. This is just an observation/suggestion and HDF being an open forum, I am not suggesting that anyone should refrain from making any posts; but being disciplined would produce better results.

    Another item is that many a times consulting 'your guru' is suggested for answer to a question. Common sense tells us that in the West, you can hardly find learned people capable of serving as gurus. Many people are fortunate even to have a mandir in their neighborhood, and often have to drive long distances just to have a darshan of the deities. Even in India, one could find many fake pandas (guru type material) ready to take your money, but unable to provide anything tangible. So, we should take that into account for our answers. Somebody once asked about yoga positions and out came the answer to consult your guru. Are you kidding me? What guru? Where can you find one in Timbuktu? Assuming that everyone lives in a large metropolitan area with tons of gurus to choose from is a big fallacy.

    The answers to 'area specific' questions become very amusing at times. Someone from Australia expressed disappointment at not being able to connect with divinity through bhajans because of the language barrier. In came the answer from a senior member, 'start speaking Hindi'. Now, one would be hard pressed to learn Hindi (or one of the other Indian languages) in the West, much less 'start speaking' from today onwards. It is laughable to expect a person from a Western country with no one around him/her to teach Hindi to 'start speaking Hindi'. What does that mean? The person does not even know the Hindi alphabet, has no one to teach it to him/her; how in the world do they 'start speaking Hindi'. Obviously the brains need to be put in gear before we start pounding on the keyboard, else something extremely stupid could come out and be posted for all to see. Another person wanted help in identifying the available avenues to go to India and learn Hindi. The premise was to be able to become a Hindi teacher for Hindu kids at some mandir in the US. But one of the answers was that it was not worth learning Hindi (or any other India language) as people on the street in India speak a version of Hindi which is highly contaminated with Arabic/Farsi/Turkish/English words. Overlooked was the fact that it was a Westerner wanting to learn Hindi to teach it to the Hindu kids in the US, and not to converse with people on the streets of Delhi or Mumbai or Hyderabad.

    Many more thoughts come to mind, but I will stop with these for now.

    Pranam.
    Last edited by Believer; 13 April 2013 at 10:56 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    66
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Some Personal Thoughts

     
    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namast

    I am quite impressed on the balance you offer in your post. You make excellent points e.g.
    Someone from Australia expressed disappointment at not being able to feel divinity through bhajans because of the language barrier. In came the answer, 'start speaking Hindi'
    This is like hearing ' I am poor and cannot _________ ( fill in the blank)' . The answer is then, 'become rich' ; easy to say hard to execute. And as you mention finding a guru is not the easiest thing. For some not even looking he came , for others , well not so much. And in some cases the guru can be the one casting out the net and you become the fish that is caught ( a blessing indeed).

    Your points are well taken. I note that people come from their POV's with so many influences. These shape the conversation and to get to the ~truth~ of the matter, many-many filters are past though before one gets to the cream of the conversation. Yet with patience and persistence it , at times, is worth the journey. But often then not, people are not even aware the filters are in place and think their view of things is the proper one. This is just how it is, but the way to break through this ( as I have found) takes a few things: humility, and the ability to let yourself be wrong. This beats one's ego into shape the same way a goldsmith hammers metals into a new shape.

    That said, at times, the ~goldsmiths~ on HDF use a sludge-hammer verses a light forming tool. And this is done with the notion that 'the truth must be told'. For me , I do not work well within that goldsmith's shop and choose to just watch and listen. For me , the truth should be sweet to the ears and leave no scars. Then people may think ' oh yajvan, you just can't take it, you are thin skinned.' My answer is simple, I choose not to take it, as what good can come from it ?

    iti śiva
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  3. #3
    Join Date
    July 2010
    Location
    The Holy Land - India
    Posts
    2,735
    Rep Power
    5326

    Re: Some Personal Thoughts

    Namaste,

    The effort to read, analyze and respond to my post is greatly appreciated. Unfortunately, I am a straight shooter and cannot comprehend circular logic or obfuscatory text. And now if I may, I have to go look for the sludge hammer verses in my poetry book.

    Pranam
    Last edited by Believer; 21 March 2013 at 12:49 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    September 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Age
    65
    Posts
    7,191
    Rep Power
    5023

    Re: Some Personal Thoughts

    Vannakkam: I personally usually just watch. What bothers me is when it gets so that some saner people leave, to never come back. What is gained from that? You think you won the intellectual cricket match by forcing your opponent off the court?

    But there is really no solution to set subconscious minds, other than maybe getting a plane, grabbing certain people and hauling them around for a year to see the 'other Hinduism' they are unfamiliar with. Believer, you have a private plane, don't you?

    I'm reminded of Kenny Rogers, "Know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em."

    This place evolves though. New faces, many watchers, many come and go. Some of us stick with it, fools that we are.

    Aum Namasivaya

  5. #5
    Join Date
    July 2010
    Location
    The Holy Land - India
    Posts
    2,735
    Rep Power
    5326

    Re: Some Personal Thoughts

    Namaste,
    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    But there is really no solution to set subconscious minds, other than maybe getting a plane, grabbing certain people and hauling them around for a year to see the 'other Hinduism' they are unfamiliar with. Believer, you have a private plane, don't you?
    I can do better than that; I purchased a space shuttle for faster travel, from the US Dept Of Defense surplus stores. Now only if I could get the darn thing started....

    Pranam.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    July 2012
    Age
    54
    Posts
    639
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Some Personal Thoughts

    Namaste.

    Since things...happened, I have learned to stick to the Shaiva Forums, unless I can answer a question directly (either by reference or experience) or can robo-quote some scripture somewhere.

    People have their own 'niches' in Hinduism, as well as in life and I figure I can always fall back on my Lord if my other lines of 'reasoning' don't work.

    On the internet, it's quite difficult. You are an 'idiot' (or similar) until proven otherwise and sometimes (oftimes) that can take a very long time.

    I understand about giving 'personal opinions' however, I also understand that most humans have the ability to judge for themselves whether my opinion or experience relates to them or not. Sometimes it does and they thank me, other times it's not applicable and they either ignore me, say 'they've tried that and it doesn't work' or flame me for having the audacity to give my opinion on an Internet Forum to begin with.

    There are also online 'cliques' and 'private forums' and 'exclusivity' so one doesn't know how thick the ice they are treading on is most of the time. We can only be polite, respectful and hope to 'do our best' even if others don't believe in what we do.

    I like the Kenny Rogers reference. I use that a lot as part of my personal philosophy.

    I also read Sun Tsu's 'The Art of War' and sometimes if a battle cannot be won, it should not be fought, so avoidance is the key issue here.

    I figured I can't go wrong talking about Lord Shiva and chanting...

    Aum Namah Shivaya

  7. #7
    Join Date
    July 2010
    Location
    The Holy Land - India
    Posts
    2,735
    Rep Power
    5326

    Re: Some Personal Thoughts

    Namaste,

    Continuing on....

    Hindus living in different parts of the world are exposed to and have different sets of problems, and consequently see things differently on many issues. Many a times there are disagreements, because we are not capable of looking at each other's problems, or don't have the same amount of exposure to the outside world.

    In the West, a temple serves as a social meeting place for people to see each other, a cultural center to feel 'whole' within our ethnicity, a place of worship to visit with and pray to the Lord, an alternate to a trip to the mall for an outing, a place to get a free meal as prasadam and who knows what else; whereas in India, it is strictly a place of worship. Indians in India may not see the social isolation of many Indians in Western countries, and their consequent need to use the temple for a variety of reasons; and be disapproving of this.

    Many a times there is a tussle between Hindus in India (with their limited, or no exposure at all to the outside world) and the Hindus settled in other countries represented in this forum. Some desi babus who have traveled to the West few times, maybe spent few months/years here, pretend to be experts on the Western culture and values. Others have read books, or watched some TV shows, or youtube videos and become experts on the conditions here. Conversely, many NRI's, who don't get out there often enough, know it all from news and act as experts on Indian affairs. In some instances, the observations of the two groups are based on global views Vs. experience based on ground reality by being in the middle of it. What could be a beneficial exchange of views gets mired in ego driven rigid stands, with both sides unwilling to give any ground.

    One of the toughest things for NRI's is to provide an environment for their kids whereby the next generation stays grounded with Hindu values. Whereas kids in India eat, sleep, smell, inhale and dream Hinduism, just by being there; the overseas kids have to be indoctrinated into it. For that, temple visits, even social ones, are immensely beneficial; as is some familiarity with the faith and with the native languages.

    Last but not the least, is the all or none attitude of the puritans - either you embrace everything scriptural or stay away from it. Now if a Swami/Guru has a thousand followers/disciples, that means for one totally practicing person, there are 1000 who are struggling to get there. Or the thousand 'part time' Hindus are creating the conditions for one soul to be able to practice it full time. So, even the 'half practicing', 'part-time' Hindus do provide the necessary environment and are needed and doing their job of supporting the faith. They should not be looked down upon and shunned for their lack of full time practice/commitment. I understand the position of puritans about the fear of diluting the faith and losing some of the core values, but without the millions of support beams, there would be no roof; without the 'somewhat' practicing Hindus, there would not be enough support base for the advanced devotees to study and practice and maintain the traditions.

    We have so much to learn from each other and so much to gain from supporting each other, yet we tend to focus more on our differences, and don't yield. An example would be the objection that some of us have with the use/offering of weed among Shiv pujaris. I should realize that I have been sensitized to its ills and abhor it, but in India, as I was told, it is openly available and used around mandirs in Varanasi. There is nothing that I can do about this long standing practice in some areas of the native land, so, I should just stop complaining and live with it.

    May I be more considerate of the views of other Hindus.

    Pranam.
    Last edited by Believer; 14 April 2013 at 09:38 AM.

  8. #8

    Re: Some Personal Thoughts

    Great post!

    ~S

  9. #9
    Join Date
    July 2010
    Location
    The Holy Land - India
    Posts
    2,735
    Rep Power
    5326

    Re: Some Personal Thoughts

    Namaste,

    Thanks Shanti. Continuing on....

    Many a times we make statements which are the product of our cultural/religious/ethnic conditioning. EM calls them the thoughts of the sub-consciousness coming to the fore during unguarded moments. One such statement is that if you put a million monkeys at the keyboard, sooner or later, they are bound to come up with something meaningful, even something divine like the Bhagwad Gita. This is a perfectly innocent statement, but is it really?

    When we say that a million monkeys pounding away at the keyboard can produce Bhagwad Gita; first we are saying that everything happens at random and there is no law of karma associated with the happenings in this world. Secondly, and something more profound is the fact that we are indirectly saying that the Bhagwad Gita is not the 'Divine Song', as Hindus believe, but a mere concoction of some smart human beings. Following that line of thinking, BG could have been amended, modified, edited over the millennia to get what we have today. I don't think Hindus, converted or otherwise subscribe to that, but that is what believing in the monkey business theory takes us to. Any statements claiming that various people providing non-sensical/off-topic/obtuse answers to a question will converge to an enlightened complete "truth", falls squarely in that million monkey category. If you pile up a ton of BS, it will never somehow, by the law of averages, morph into a pound of honey. To stick to the million monkey line of thinking, is the sub-conscious mind bringing up the old, absurd conditioning. It merely reduces the forum to pander to the lowest common denominator.

    Pranam.
    Last edited by Believer; 25 March 2013 at 08:08 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    August 2012
    Location
    Indiana, USA
    Age
    32
    Posts
    419
    Rep Power
    684

    Re: Some Personal Thoughts

    The thing about the "million monkey" argument is that no one has actually tried to put it into action. Which makes me question how they thought the theory was any good to begin with.

    I think if you put a million monkeys in a room with a bunch of typewriters for 5 years you just end up with a lot of angry monkeys and a lot of broken typewriters. Oh and PETA might be camping on your door step.

    And I'm only being half cheeky because I sincerely don't get the "million monkey" argument.
    "God will not have his work made manifest by cowards."
    ~Ralph Waldo Emerson


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Living a Happy and Satisfied Life
    By silence_speaks in forum Philosophy
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 31 July 2012, 12:35 AM
  2. Aham Brahmasmi - 4 - The Way to the Absolute
    By devotee in forum Advaita
    Replies: 61
    Last Post: 02 March 2012, 11:35 PM
  3. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01 November 2011, 07:07 AM
  4. Dealing with Negative Thoughts
    By Kismet in forum Abrahamic Religions (Closed For Posting)
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 25 August 2011, 09:18 PM
  5. Thought on thoughts
    By goodlife in forum On Dharma
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 09 October 2009, 10:01 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •