Converts and hate

[Divine Kala]

Namaste

Recently I've been experiencing a fair amount of hate, all online, because I posted something that people have decided to take as racism, classism and as privilege.

But my question here is; what do the native Hindus here think of the converts? Be honest. Do you think we're imposing on your religion? Are you of the opinion that a person can only be born into Hinduism and anyone else is just culturally appropriating or are you happy to see Dharma attracting people from all walks of life?

Do you believe that converts can ever really practise Hinduism or do you believe that they're simply aping the styles of a culture and religion that they find exotic?

Would you rather see people who are interested in Hinduism and who genuinely take it up told to bugger off and that they can never be called to practise or would you prefer for them to be welcomed so long as they were genuine?

[Necromancer]

Namaste, Kala.

I notice you are from Melbourne. I live in Sydney.

I'm also a 'convert' and a female Caucasian (not that it should have any bearing on it).

I was married to a 'Native Hindu' (sounds rather barbaric, doesn't it?) for 17 years and I had to 'live the life'.

I won't lie to you, there's an underlying current of 'hostility' or 'imposition' towards us, however, we're often left to feel like we're 'imagining it'...but it's quite uncomfortable, yes...not knowing whether we're not 'fitting in' or they are not because we're trying to.

They will still associate with people of their own Ethnicity though...due to 'language barriers' alone (if one doesn't speak fluent Hindi/Urdu/Tamil or whatever the case may be).

Online, it's different because nobody knows who/what you are (my cat is typing this - I taught it) as such, anonymity creates its own problems, like those who use it to expose negative sides of their personalities and those who would like to expose any personality whatsoever and get politely told to 'can it'.

If somebody criticises you on a Forum, just take it for what it is and ignore them. Also know, I love Lord Shiva so much that I know what people are saying about me aren't true. I have that faith and conviction in my heart now.

I have returned to Hinduism after a 10 year hiatus into 'material excess' and I am regularly told to 'bugger off' (well, maybe not in those exact words), I laugh though because they must care enough about what I am saying to tell me to do so. I do so though. Why waste my time any more than theirs?

Aum Namah Shivaya

[Twilightdance]

Namaste

Recently I've been experiencing a fair amount of hate, all online, because I posted something that people have decided to take as racism, classism and as privilege.

But my question here is; what do the native Hindus here think of the converts? Be honest. Do you think we're imposing on your religion? Are you of the opinion that a person can only be born into Hinduism and anyone else is just culturally appropriating or are you happy to see Dharma attracting people from all walks of life?

Do you believe that converts can ever really practise Hinduism or do you believe that they're simply aping the styles of a culture and religion that they find exotic?

Would you rather see people who are interested in Hinduism and who genuinely take it up told to bugger off and that they can never be called to practise or would you prefer for them to be welcomed so long as they were genuine?

Those reactions r of people who r low in confidence about hinduism or their own place in it. You need not judge hindu behaviour to new comers solely based on online experience. Also not online groups r same, but generally people who spend significant time debating religilion on online forums r social marginals and thry thus behave accordingly with spite, ignorance and arrogance.

[Jodhaa]

A agree with most of what has been mentioned already. I am a Caucasian devotee that has recently adopted the Hindu faith. I absolutely despise the entire concept of "cultural appropriation" - that is I despise that people use it as a reason to tell you, you can't or aren't Hindu (or anything else for that matter) or to prove that you are racist.

I could get into a novel length post as to why the "cultural appropriation" argument ruffles my feathers but that would be getting off topic.

To answer your question - while no one has outwardly accused me of cultural appropriation for my practice of Hinduism, I have experienced it second hand through the stories of others. I will say that at temple I occasionally get rather cold, sideways glances from others who don't know me as a regular, but since no one actually says anything I don't know if this is curiosity, or disapproval.

I will say I have experienced "benevolent" discrimination. That is, almost every weekend I get asked some sort of question (by a sincerely curious individual) that is somewhere along the lines of:

"So, is your husband Indian?"
"So, are you with ISKCON?" (which, by singling me out to ask, implies the assumption that, 'Oh, she's white and at a Hindu Temple, therefore....)

It's interesting because no one assumes or asks me directly if I'm Hindu. They have to fabricate an 'excuse' for me to be there when the simplest reason is that I feel a divine connection there and enjoy the presents of God and other devotees.

The best advice has already been offered, which is to ignore them since they are based in a forum. If these were real people in your life, I would try to explain it to them as civilized as possible. You can't make headway in an argument on the internet because you could just be dealing with people who want to troll you.

This is something that I think western converts might have to deal with for quite some time. Until and unless Hinduism experiences some sort of grand renaissance in the West, we're often either going to looked at as children playing pretend, or insincere.

I say, keep your chin up, because (as the kids today say) "Hater's gonna Hate."


Shanti

[charitra]

New converts are the new hope for the survival of Hinduism, it is shrinking as we speak by the day. You have to reinvigorate it and give us new impetus. The attrition rate is alarming. Some born hindus are going to be racist, they also carve out a niche for themselves amongst the born ones, its their nature, we cant help it. Please read below webpost, get some strength from some good opinions expressed there in. You all should be the Karols, draw some inspiration from her and assert yourselves. All hindus hailed Tulsi Gabbard's election to US Congress last November. Namaste.
http://western-hindu.org/2013/03/13/this-is-wrong-in-so-many-ways/#comment-5326

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam: From my experience, it all depends on approach. Humility goes a very long way. I am truly an idiot about Hinduism, and I've been in it 35 years or more. I am in constant admiration of Hindus who seem to have it in their blood.

So if someone (a person thinking of converting) reads a book or two, decides they like what they see, and then says they're a Hindu, then marches into a Hindu temple, but doesn't follow protocol, thinking Hinduism is a free for all because that's what they read ... well you might just get a negative response.

I don't need to take my shoes off.
To heck with men sitting on one side, and women on the other. That's stupid. I'm going to sit with my boyfriend.
I like vibhuthi. I'm going to smear it all over my face, not just on the forehead. It is a 'blessing' substance, after all.
Yeah, I can wear a dhoti, so what if it's falling off half the time, and I have to show my undies while I wrap it back.

(I'm not suggesting anyone here is like that, but yes I have seen it, and it is troubling.)

You get the picture. An analogy is the stories of Americans in Europe who just do the American thing, and then are called out as 'not very good tourists'. Another is the immigrant here in America who holds up the queue at the grocery store bargaining with the young cashier. In one sense, they are forgiven for their ignorance, yet in another, especially if they seem to never learn, it can be frustrating.

So its about entitlement. Are we entitled to access to this oldest faith? I thank Lord Bhairava, the guardian to Hinduism, every single time I go to temple, which is more than once a week. "Thank you for letting me in - again." and I actually mean it, and am often surprised He did it, as I'm really quite undeserving.

Aum Namasivaya

[satay]

namaste,

Namaste

Recently I've been experiencing a fair amount of hate, all online, because I posted something that people have decided to take as racism, classism and as privilege.

But my question here is; what do the native Hindus here think of the converts? Be honest.

I am a native hindu (whatever that means) and I honestly think that those that accept hinduism, that their karma is ripening. That said, what do you care about what other people think of you or your religion? Religion is a personal matter so if as a non-native you are living the hindu way then just 'be a hindu' and don't worry about what native or others think.

I am curious. What did you post online to get that reaction?

[satay]

namaste,

I won't lie to you, there's an underlying current of 'hostility' or 'imposition' towards us, however,

This is quite the generalisation. You are accusing of 800 million hindus of having an underlying hositility against you?

[Anirudh]

Namaste,

Eastern Mind has brought out many points. I agree with many of them. Sanaatana Dharma like any other has cultural tradition associated with it.

Centuries of subjugation and violence by west has made Eastern people to be very cautious when dealing them. Assume that if my forefathers for centuries have treated western people cruelly and my present generation still continuing to rob west, will you trust me when I appear suddenly in a church with a cross around my neck and the black book in my hand?

As a Bhaarath born Hindu, I will take some time to accept a convert especially western convert.

Never met a Hindu convert, but even in this miniature world which is pretty well moderated have observed insane comments. Even when other members politely instruct them to respect the sentiments, they don't mince words.
However I have seen humility overflowing serenely from few western folks. Most striking feature which helps me to connect with them is their respect for the scriptures.
Even an India born atheist can wear a saffron robe, smear vibhuti and visit temple. But he won't get respect unless he observes the basic protocols which comes after understanding and assimilating basics of Hinduism.

For eg: Out of devotion devotees on their pilgrimage to Thirumala walk up the seven hills bare foot (around 3200 steps Plus 3 km road). There is a well connected transport service is also available. But i have seen western Iskonites taking the steps route with their shoes on.

[Anirudh]

Namaste Necromancer,

If you try to imply "lack of trust" by saying hostility then I ll agree with you to an extent. See my previous post for more clarity.