Believing consciousness is inside the brain is like believing light is inside the eye

[Adhvagat]

Believing consciousness is inside the brain is like believing light is inside the eye.

Does that line of thought hold its ground against a materialistic worldview and philosophical stance?

I'd like arguments from members who also entertain a materialistic worldview and take the materialistic argument seriously.

Thank you!

[wundermonk]

Not a materialist myself.

The materialist needs to explain why consciousness is private, how matter reorganizes itself into a subject/object/act of knowledge, etc., etc.

Saying that consciousness is an "emergent property" of the physical body is just the materialist's equivalent of the theist's "We dont know therefore Goddidit" whether the materialist sees this or not.

[Necromancer]

Namaste.

The analogy is apt, but not perfect.

The eye is required to see light and the brain is required to experience consciousness.

Our 'Soul' must reside somewhere (I see no delineation between 'Consciousness' and 'Soul'). Some believe the seat of Consciousness to be in the 'Spiritual Heart' like I do.

All this is, is just another fancy way of saying 'we are not our brains' and this is true.

From a materialistic viewpoint?

It's difficult to reconcile Brahman with Materialism unless one goes into Tantra fully....then, we must accept the fact that 'all this isn't real either'.

Trying to convert materialism into non-dualism is a very hard path to take (because we are apt to become attached and full of desire for those things).

Aum Namah Shivaya

[realdemigod]

Does that line of thought hold its ground against a materialistic worldview and philosophical stance?

I'd like arguments from members who also entertain a materialistic worldview and take the materialistic argument seriously.

Thank you!

You need to define what do you mean by consciousness here first.

[Adhvagat]

Namaste.

The analogy is apt, but not perfect.

The eye is required to see light and the brain is required to experience consciousness.

Our 'Soul' must reside somewhere (I see no delineation between 'Consciousness' and 'Soul'). Some believe the seat of Consciousness to be in the 'Spiritual Heart' like I do.

All this is, is just another fancy way of saying 'we are not our brains' and this is true.

From a materialistic viewpoint?

It's difficult to reconcile Brahman with Materialism unless one goes into Tantra fully....then, we must accept the fact that 'all this isn't real either'.

Trying to convert materialism into non-dualism is a very hard path to take (because we are apt to become attached and full of desire for those things).

Aum Namah Shivaya

Well, actually, if the brain is a consciousness receptacle, consciousness is everywhere, in the field.

Of course that leads us to a Brahman-like realization but we also can fall back easily into a dualistic question: So what experiences the field? And what exactly is the need for a sense of unity if the reality is more like diffuse potentiality?

Viewing world as lila is much simpler and insightful. Just enjoy the ride, because all of this was made for pleasure. So, let all beings be happy.

You need to define what do you mean by consciousness here first.

Yes, that's the first trap. Where does consciousness start? In being-ness or in awareness of being-ness?

But I'm not sure I think it's important to define it since the question is whether it is contained in a tiny vessel or it's basic constituent element of the field.

[Necromancer]

Namaste.

It is similar to the question I have been struggling with - exactly what survives death?

If we experience pleasure/pain in the afterlife, then how? (considering these things are destroyed).

Apparently there are 'subtle bodies' and whatever one experiences during full conscious realisation is experienced through that as well.

Aum Namah Shivaya

[Necromancer]

Viewing world as lila is much simpler and insightful. Just enjoy the ride, because all of this was made for pleasure. So, let all beings be happy.

Namaste.

Events of the past few weeks have forced this realisation upon me anyway.

Here was I getting all annoyed at somebody 'bossing me around' when they were far out of their jurisdiction to do so. It made me feel really grumpy and 'victimised' (for lack of a better word).

All of my nihilistic training wasn't helping and 'you are nothing, just an illusion' wasn't either...being a 'Jnana Yogi' just wasn't paying off.

I had to go from 'neti neti' to 'ekam sat' very quickly to avoid those feelings and to learn.

Aum Namah Shivaya

[jignyAsu]

Does that line of thought hold its ground against a materialistic worldview and philosophical stance?

I'd like arguments from members who also entertain a materialistic worldview and take the materialistic argument seriously.

Thank you!

I would argue this way. If consciousness is external (like light) then is the perception of an object finally happening only by the reactions in the brain to this consciousness (as with the brain-eye to light)?

From a materialist POV, I would ask that after death of a person, since the consciouness still remains the same and available, can we do something to the brain to become aware of this again? Or can we create a computer to be make use of this consciousness. If not, how come a brain alone is special enough to make use of consciousness?

Philosophically I would ask, if consciousness is external then what happens at death that makes a person insentient? Because, all ingredients of life are still pretty much there.

[realdemigod]

Yes, that's the first trap. Where does consciousness start? In being-ness or in awareness of being-ness?

But I'm not sure I think it's important to define it since the question is whether it is contained in a tiny vessel or it's basic constituent element of the field.

Hmm..ok

[Sudarshan]

Does that line of thought hold its ground against a materialistic worldview and philosophical stance?

I'd like arguments from members who also entertain a materialistic worldview and take the materialistic argument seriously.

Thank you!

Here is one: - A person gets hit on the head, sustains an injury to the brain and looses consciousness entirely. What other entity apart from the brain itself is needed to explain this. What happened to the "other consciousness"? Was it also impaired due to the brain injury?