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Reincarnations are supposed to mellow the manifestations of a soul. I wonder what these people Hitler, Stalin and Edi Amin would have been in their earlier incarnations with all their cruelty and sadism! How many more births would they acquire even to get to the state of a normal man?
here and now
They were advanced souls in the path of egoism. There su-karma must exceed a normal man by many many times. Killing and getting away with it is not so easy.Originally Posted by saidevo
Unless one has attained saivam and crossed the barrier of Ego, which I suspect most of us don't yet understand, a good soul may also turn to asura. Hence astikya or true faith is god is necessary.
What is Here, is Elsewhere. What is not Here, is Nowhere.
New Member
Yes, until then, the Bhagavad Gita is there to guide us.
Though the house-lamps have been lit,
The blind live on in the dark.
Though spontaneity is all-encompassing and close,
To the deluded it remains always far away.
Bees that know in flowers
Honey can be found.
That Samsara and Nirvana are not two
How will the deluded ever understand?
There's nothing to be negated, nothing to be
Affirmed or grasped; for It can never be conceived
By the fragmentation of the intellect are the deluded
Fettered; undivided and pure remains spontaneity.
- Sarahapada
Om purnam adah, purnam idam, purnat purnam udacyate; purnasya purnam adaya purnam evavasisyate.Om Santih! Santih! Santih!
etad vai tat
Hari Om
~~~~~
Namaste sm78 (et.al)
The Upanishads assist here: Dvitiyad vai bhayam bhavati - Certainly fear is born of duality.
That is , whenever and whereever there is a sense of two, fear or suffering has the opportunity to exist.
'Difference' only exists when there is more then one... as the individual evolves from 'indivisual' to Brahman, then duality is no more, no difference can exist. Until that time one needs to manage one's behavior.
pranams,
यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
because you are identical with śiva
_
here and now
Indeed.
Only other thing I wanted to say is that, in the process of journey from the individual to brahman, the sadhak does encounter states of consciousness which seem 'non-dual' but which are not permanent, neither answers the question "who am I". The sapta jnana bhumi in yoga explains this very well. As also you are discussing in the 'Manuel' thread.
While this is how consciousness is said to be evolving, we cannot base course of action for the ourselves and much less the society (topic of this thread, the demoniac) based on these intermediate states of consciousness, while ego still persists.
Hence being an astika and divine words of the scriptures are necessary base for us.
**Most modern day non-duality realized souls seem to think and act differently than Vasistha or Krishna indicated.
What is Here, is Elsewhere. What is not Here, is Nowhere.
New Member
A reflection of the age of the Kali-yuga. The dance of Shiva continues until Kali devours the devourer of time himself.
Om purnam adah, purnam idam, purnat purnam udacyate; purnasya purnam adaya purnam evavasisyate.Om Santih! Santih! Santih!
svabhAvamadhurA
Namaste,
It is not complicated, unless one wishes to worry at it like a dog with a bone ... actually the simplicity is what makes apprehension a trouble, I suppose.
But yes, there really is no difference, this is why representations of the Buddha shows a serene smile, I think ...
When love is all, there is no other and it feels soooo good ...
I cannot describe more than the classic and beautiful poetry of the shakta texts what is that I've experienced, however when SHE graces me, I can show and participate in such. There are several whom I have merged with with the grace of Godz, and this has shown me there is no restriction in time, space, form, etc.
It is not a matter of seeking but of being found, I think, which produces the day to day manifestations such as your friend describes ... acceptance rather than projection it is sort of an inside out manner of revealing.
I'll post this rather than deleting, against my more conservative judgement
ZN
yaireva patanaM dravyaiH siddhistaireva choditA .
shrI kauladarshane chApi bhairaveNa mahAtmanA .
It is revealed in the sacred doctrine of Kula and by the great Bhairava, that the perfection is achieved by that very means by which fall occurs.
Banned
It is an ill wind indeed that blows no good. So let's look at hitler and see where some good came from his evil deeds. Sure about 300,000 americans were killed or wounded in the war.
On the other hand, when the troops returned to the US the superhighway system was started because of the road system the germans had build and to general european road system .
The US army of WWII was segregrated but that changed after the war. The missle and rockets came into being, and while some are used for atomic weapons others are used in the space program, to put up satillites and for research.
The modern jet airplane came about because of the germans and so did the first rocket plane. There was even a german flying wing that looked like a moderm b2b.
Additionally, it showed that an isolationist policy could be bad because it allowed mad men to take over whole countries . Plus it allowed the US to crowded the british to give india its freedom.
It also showed the world the interior of the concentration camp and started a process that tracked down the people who ran them and profited from the stolen property.
Some how it makes me wonder if brahman looked at what was going on and made sure some good came out of it all.
etad vai tat
Hari Om
~~~~~
Hello Willie,
thank you for this view, of finding something good in the turmoil of the second world war. My angst of Hitler was not that of the soldier as they know they were coming into harms way. It is the thousands of Jews that Hitler and his staff chose to harm, butcher and bring the greatest level of grief to these folks. [ the numbers suggest 5.1 Million non-millitary , if you care to look , http://www.holocaust-history.org/~rjg/deaths.shtml , has the numbers ]
Now how would I know this other then reading and watching news casts?
As a boy I grew up in a Jewish neighborhood ( this was the 1950's) after world war II. I lived among the people that were bound to the concentration camps...treated less then animals. They could not finish their stories of the camps. They showed their concentration camp numbers tattooed on their wrists. Families broken apart. Hundreds of people once starved to death, gassed, burned, injected with test drugs, shot in the head, then all bull dozed into graves covered up, then the bull dozer moved-on to the next pile of human remains. All done on purpose, with intent to harm, to torture, to kill and to wipe out these people.
This is why my angst and ultimate discomfort with Hitler is so high. This was his intent. They were the superior race. How ignorant can this be? Yet it was their ideology.
If we add the torture + all the Americans and allied forces killed, I would trade all the technology, roads, airplanes and missiles back for even a handful of these people that knew and expeinced pure terror and tortured for no reason other then to not be German.
Dying happens by the minute - its part of life, yet to bring pain and suffering , mindfully, on purpose and in many many instances to the pleasure and amusement of the abusers ( the German military), This is beneath the dignity of man. In my book No exchange of technology, money, or material gain can compensate for this.
Again thank you for finding a glimmer of good here. May we never see the likes of this type of being(s) again on this good earth.
Last edited by yajvan; 08 June 2007 at 10:18 PM.
यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
because you are identical with śiva
_
aum Sri GaNeSAya namah.
Pranam Yajvan
I share your anguish and pain, what kind of madness drives people like this I dont know.
Atrocities to human still goes on, all be it on a smaller scale.
And let us spare a thought for those silent animal who can not protest or perhaps we just ignore their plight. The pain inflicted to them are unimaginable, out of sight out of mind, until we learn to respect all forms of life, likes of Hitlers will always rear their ugly head from time to time
I am afraid this is the nature of this world, temporary and painfull as Lord Shree Krishna explains,
mam upetya punar janma
duhkhalayam asasvatam
napnuvanti mahatmanah
samsiddhim paramam gatah
After attaining Me, the great souls, who are yogis in devotion, never return to this temporary world, which is full of miseries, because they have attained the highest perfection.
Jai Shree Krishna
Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.
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