'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

[dogra]

Also, dogra, is it fair to assume that you are probably no more than 14 or 15 years old? Because that would explain a lot...

ahh again the personal attacks, you clearly have a problem, when people express views not of your liking u engage personal attacks because you suffer mental torment right.....

[dogra]

Atleast as a starting point let us not equate differentiating to crusading. These kinds of judgements have been taught to us by outsiders.

Let those who refuse to see differences in gender or varna by birth atleast not think of those who believe in this as being evil, for a start. After all to none has Moksha and spiritual progress been denied. None is excluded from being a spiritual teacher nor is this varna of anyone claimed to be permanent. If one believes in rebirth and karma, then there is a possibility of classification by birth.

Our Rishis have given us a unequal prescription in order to acheive an equal destination. In our society, a father prescribes different rules to his son and daughter...but he wants them both to be happy. Let this not be constituted as being women suppression.

That B.G 5.18 verse talks about viewing not only different people with equal eye but also animals like elephant, cow etc. Surely this can't mean putting a sacred thread on a cow or a cat (not yet). This only means that ultimately we are the same ..but the differences is due to our karma and temporary.

Those people who are suggesting us to change the traditions, can they guarantee us if a sacred thread will continue to remain "sacred"? Do they know if the Vedic rituals will continue to work? Have they acheived a stable society? Is purity of thoughts being upheld?

In so many temples the Male deity is given a sacred thread and not the female deity. This surely does not mean that the Female deity is looked down upon. In fact there have been instances where the male deity has been looked down upon.

We have been given a brain why? can you answer this question, so kindly understand, we have and as u agree with BG 5.18 with added animals as well, think you are getting bogged down in the actual sacred thread, though human beings know the difference animals do not, it is a case of removing the discriminations that exist in our society. The society is not very good is it, and why, how do we move to a more equitable society..

Women can be soldiers, do u disagree or not, women can carry out whatever profession they so choose, do u u agree or disagree.
U see people like philoso like to make arguments on behalf of others, common sense and brain needs applying.

[dogra]

I have a suggestion. Could you request any "shudra" friends of yours to come post on HDF and let them speak about the benefits of varna discrimination and how they are happy with it? This is, of course, assuming they have not already given up on temple worship and found their way to the nearest church or mosque.

The idea is that it is not for a bunch of South African "white guys" sitting on top of the pyramid to decide whether there is racism in South Africa or not. To decide whether there is racism in South Africa, should one not hear from "black guys"?

Indeed you are quite right, and this is the problem.
Social evil of caste which condemns people, is very bad, do people not belonging to these groups not empathise with these people, do they think its fine they are downtrodden, abused mentally tortured, how would they like it if they were in their positions.
Most definitely our scriptures do not tell too behave like this, and have discussed with so called 'dalits' here in UK, and a number of them are professional like lawyers, doctors, accountants through their training and education and well done to them. A few other so called 'dalits' said they stopped going to temple because the pandit did not treat them same as others, I did try to explain that those specific pandits are wrong and other pandits do not behave this way as know from speaking to other pandits in my local area. This will take time to convince them of the beauty of sanatan dharma, but we are moving on these points-Alliance of Hindu organisations UK.

They are our fellow spiritually equal human beings as God resides in all as per Lord Krishna

[Omkara]

Traditionally who is anyoen to deny women to do these, why do we have powerfule female forms of God, tell Kali ma she cannot do, tell Shakti she cannot do, tell Durga mata she cannot do.
Examples are there for clear gender equality enshrined in Hindu texts, Bravo Agniveer.
Now:
http://www.ivarta.com/columns/ol_070503.htm

I have explained how woman rishis owe their positions to their husbands. What part of my post did you not understand?

[Omkara]

Women can be soldiers, do u disagree or not, women can carry out whatever profession they so choose, do u u agree or disagree.

Really? Then why did Bhishma refuse to attack Shikhandin? Why did no female soldiers fight in the Mahabharata?

[wundermonk]

Women can be soldiers, do u disagree or not, women can carry out whatever profession they so choose, do u u agree or disagree.

Really?

Yes. See picture below.



Now, assuming these fine ladies called themselves Hindus prior to becoming soldiers, have they forfeited the right to call themselves Hindu now?

For future reference, please also define who is a Hindu. Thanks.

[dogra]

I have explaibed how woman rishis owe their positions to their husbands. What part of my post did you not understand?

Don't agree with your post, as clearly shown who tells Kali ma, who tells Durga Mata, who tells Shakti.
Women can be soldiers, who are you to say they cant, can Kali ma be told please don't fight, don't you see the contradiction between powerful female forms of god, and women not be able to fight.
Women can like men, be of whatever profession they so choose, u can disagree all you want, but society is moving.
Jai Kali ma!!

[Kalicharan Tuvij]

Arre baba

Varna (way of works) was a Vedic urban construct. And when Varna was being transformed into the birth based (oh yeah), endogamic, caste system, still some Indians preferred their tribe identity over anything else.

An example is, in Mahabharata, Vasudeva was a kshatriya while his cousin (?) Nanda was just a villager. This shows that Varna related to urban professions. And also that the Yadus still preferred (oh yeah and they still today) their tribe identity even when castes became a norm. (I suppose OBC were not a caste then, were they?).

Oh yeah.
(report spam)

[dogra]

https://www.facebook.com/HinduismWithoutCaste?fref=ts

No hereditary birth based caste in Hinduism scriptures.
Just think a cleaner's children must also be cleaners, force them , ahh, but then no Moksha, oops. No reconciliation as per usual

[Omkara]

Yes. See picture below.



Now, assuming these fine ladies called themselves Hindus prior to becoming soldiers, have they forfeited the right to call themselves Hindu now?

For future reference, please also define who is a Hindu. Thanks.

Just because certain people choose to ignore scriptural regulations, it does not automatically follow that those scriptural regulations are false.

I note that neither you nor dogra addressed the point I made about Bhishma not attacking Shikhandin becaise women are not allowed in warfare.