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Thread: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

  1. #191
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    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    Namaste,

    If this cow (her name is 'caste discrimination') could talk,



    it would say, I am so tired of all these people milking me!

    Pranam.

  2. #192
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    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    Namaste

    Regarding the sacred thread, someone mentioned women cannot wear it nor study the Veda. But is that actually true?

    Shri Madhvacharya in his Mahabharatha Tatparya Nirnaya, describes the scholarly nature of Draupadi, the wife of Pandavas as:

    "Great women should study the Vedas like Krishnaa (Draupadi)"

    This comes from a nice article on ancient female Rishis (Rishikas), that in Rig Veda alone there are around 30 women vedic scholars (rishikas) to whom different hymns have been attributed to (it would seem odd that they wouldn't be able to read the Veda hymns as women of which they are attributed to have fostered):

    http://www.hitxp.com/articles/veda/v...-women-school/

    Please read and enjoy.

    Back to the sacred thread and Vedas, of which are three threads and worn on the body, where is this in the Vedas themselves? I assume this sacred thread is in reference to the Yajnopavitam or the thread. Where is the verse about the Yajnopavitam or sacred thread in the Vedas? I need to add this verse to my notes, but the only verse I can find is from the Dharmasutras dealing with custom, rituals and law and the oldest of which the author is Apastamba, and that is way, way, way after the Vedas and is almost modern next to the Vedas.

    Anyway, going through this thread with one minute nothing is interpolations, the next minute saying maybe interpolations if it is obviously a bizarre Manu Smriti like quote, then jumping all over the place, it seems it is becoming fairly clear that 6000 jati isn't an ancient Vedic custom and so pretty much the thread has reached an end point, other than an application of the UK law may be in order in the US.

    There was something about animals wearing the sacred thread, it's not worth going there and seriously there is no disrespect intended, let me be perfectly clear I am not trying to be funny, but don't be so sure that it hasn't happened such as given to a cow, I might be mistaken in this as happening in India. But that doesn't matter, I wouldn't give my cell phone to a cow. But Mother Cow is still a Mother to me even if She can't dial me up on the phone like my human Mother.

    Om Namah Sivaya

  3. #193

    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    Hi Ganesh.

    Fair enough, that is your viewpoint. The internet video of the translations of Bhagavad Gita are there for anyone to see, and the person in the video I have attended one of his lectures, so these are educated people and cannot be dismissed.
    We do not follow birth based in terms of telling others in what job they should take, that is their free choice, as per our scriptures.

  4. #194

    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    Quote Originally Posted by shiv.somashekhar View Post
    As can be noticed, I Have asked multiple times and the dogra, Charita camp lacks the courage to admit that they consider the tradition currently followed in India (and followed for at least 3000 years) is wrong.

    Hard to understand what they are afraid of. They are unable to come out and say -

    1. Varna was followed differently in ancient times (more than 3000 years ago). That is, Brahmins of that time did not have gotras.

    2. Since the past 3000 years, Brahmins have been following a corrupted gotra based system and now we (Charita, dogra eta al.,) are correcting the problem.

    Unless, they make this admission, they are not being honest. I will ask yet again -

    Can you be honest and admit you believe that the long standing tradition of hereditary Brahmanas is wrong, instead of pretending this 3000 year old tradition does not exist?
    Multiple times I have asked you for scriptural injunction for birth based caste, where individual shall be of same profession as parents, which parent , and that they have no free choice. Cmon show the verses.

    Hereditary system whereby Bhramins are determined by birth to bhramin parents is wrong, it is their actions and education will lead them to being a bhramin.
    To say someone born to 'bhramin' automatically becomes onne by nature of birth, makes no sense, if they have not gained education and proven themselves

  5. #195

    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    Regarding the sacred thread, someone mentioned women cannot wear it nor study the Veda
    Women cannot study Vedas, ha, what absurd nonsense.
    Thanks for the link Shivafan

  6. #196
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    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad View Post

    Pranam Charitra
    As to your post is so out off order makes it completely irrelevant. Perhaps it would be best for anyone interested to read a bit about Gopis and Gopas who they actually were let alone mother yasoda and Nada baba and then make a judgment. It would serve us all best if you can back up what you say about them as meat eaters and all the rest, with reference from shastra.Jai Shree Krishna
    Dear Ganesh Prasadji,
    We both talked once before very briefly. At that time I asked you to get in touch with some kshatriyas and get a first hand account about their dietary preferences. Have you had a chance to do that yet, I am curious to see the outcome of your research. This time I am making a similar request - please go and seek out some yadavas and have a friendly chat with them, ask them about the family dairy industry they run and their food habits etc. Sometime ago I lived in such a neighborhood myself.. They are nice people, although I must say Laalu Prasad Yadav is a character whose gaffes keep everyone entertained. Please let me have the pleasure of reading those findings on this forum. Till such time you can be charitable and avoid any speculations on those two communities or for that matter any other communities with whom you keep no social contacts. Namaste.

  7. #197
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    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    Quote Originally Posted by ShivaFan View Post
    This comes from a nice article on ancient female Rishis (Rishikas), that in Rig Veda alone there are around 30 women vedic scholars (rishikas) to whom different hymns have been attributed to (it would seem odd that they wouldn't be able to read the Veda hymns as women of which they are attributed to have fostered)http://www.hitxp.com/articles/veda/v...-women-school/
    Thank you, ShivaFan, that was gratifying to read. In fact there are a few brahmins who do give sacred thread and Gayatri upadesham to women, including even women who are foreigners converted to Hinduism. I myself was blessed to receive this initiation more than 25 years ago from the late Sant Keshavadas. http://www.templeofcosmicreligion.org Sant Keshavadas has written a book Gayatri:The Highest Meditation that is available through the address given.

    Thus Agniveer is not alone in admitting casteless people, including casteless women, to the study of the Vedas.
    http://agniveer.com/sacred-threadof-...i-dalit-hindus

    On upanayanam for girls see further: http://www.hindu-blog.com/2009/06/up...-janoi-or.html

    http://articles.timesofindia.indiati...sanskrit-girls

    Pranam

    Last edited by TrikonaBindu; 03 June 2013 at 01:59 AM.

    Mahadeva Smaranam OM namah shivaya
    Mrtyunjayaya rudraya neelakanthaya shambhave
    Amrteshaya sarvaya mahadevaya te namah

  8. #198
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    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    Namaste TrikonaBindu.

    When I read the words ... the words and name Sant Keshavadas.. I am stunned. Let me ask you for all forgiveness, you are of the cosmos in your vision, I am not as old as you as a soul. I did not see. Both me and my wife had the blessings of this Master, I am not an initiate of Him, but oh yes I know Him. Please, if I have offended you in anyway it is only because I have always been a rascal Saiva, and will be when waiting for the Taraka mantra. Your Satguru is the Lord of Bhajans, many, many souls have sung with Him and we don't even understand what was that moment. It is not beyond the realm of possibilities, I saw you perhaps but what I mentioned was a long time ago. The sacred thread has a special meaning to me. Once I knew a Brahmin who was a pujari in Lanka, he is now gone. Once in America I accidently walked into his room, he was holding his sacred thread and doing Gayatri. I was so embarrassed.... but not him. He laughed. I will never wear the thread, nor do I chant Gayatri. I do not because it is a story. Your Master is beloved. You were there in those last days, please give us your knowledge because you are the Knower of the Brahman. Please accept my humble obeisances.

    Om Namah Sivaya

  9. #199
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    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    Namaste ShivaFan,

    If you visited the Temple of Cosmic Religion in Oakland, CA between the years (approximately) 1985-1989, it is possible we might have been at the same place at the same time. Glad to hear both you and your wife had Sant-ji’s darshan and blessings. His legacy continues to be propagated in the United States through at least a few disciples.

    Now then, why would you of all people consider there’d be anything between the two of us to forgive, when you and I have had the most cordial and clarifying exchanges through posts and PMs? As for my fortunate association with Sant Keshavadas, although the learning environment he created leaves me forever in his debt, I cannot count myself as having been among his inner circle of followers. And definitely you’d be disappointed were you to attribute any special spiritual achievement to me.

    Leaving that aside, to return to the topic at hand: It was not that Sant-ji was making Brahmins by conferring the yajnopavita and Gayatri mantra. In that way the situation differs from ISKCON whose (male) initiates, I am told, have Brahmin status conferred upon them. The thing was, Sant-ji was of the opinion that Gayatri initiation ought not be restricted to “the chosen orthodox Brahmin class” (here I’m quoting him), but rather it should be “the support of every seeker after Truth who believes in its efficacy, power, and glory, be he of any caste, creed, clime, or sect.” Thus, people like me are Gayatri initiates without having any association with the caste system.

    To me, this is a far more radical stance than creating Brahmins, because it asserts that Gayatri Devi is not inhibited by the caste system. Having been invoked by the initiating guru, Gayatri Devi can and does bless Her devotee simply on the basis of reverent Truth-seeking, without any regard to caste status. Thus the Veda is pried free from the white-knuckled grip of those who wish to withhold the highest truths from the rest of the world.

    Pranam.
    Last edited by TrikonaBindu; 03 June 2013 at 05:06 AM.

    Mahadeva Smaranam OM namah shivaya
    Mrtyunjayaya rudraya neelakanthaya shambhave
    Amrteshaya sarvaya mahadevaya te namah

  10. #200
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    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    Namaste TrikonaBindu

    There was no inner circle, anyone such as yourself who met Sant Keshavadas and had the opportunity to sing bhajans with Him is an equal circle of love and not an inner circle. My apology was only in the sense that sometimes I do not see what is obvious, again it is clear you are a very old soul.

    Yes you are blessed to be given and proclaim the Gayatri Mantra. I recall Sant Keshavadas speaking of it clearly. He spoke of Panduranga Vittala as well, and yes myself and close friends would with joy visit the Oakland Temple. I cannot recall the exact year the first time visit, but it had just opened, also the years you mention there is no doubt I was there visiting as well so indeed perhaps I met you. The world is very small, indeed.

    I knew the Gayatri Mantra, and of course I love Her the glorious Devi, but my story is different from yours. There is no one who should be told they cannot welcome Her presence, and chant Her mantra. I welcome Her presence with joy and seeking, but why I do not chant Her mantra is not a reason for another not to.

    There is a poster seen in one of the videos of a Sant Keshavadas bhajan I just now watched on YouTube of Krishna, when Keshavadas arrived in America in 1966, Prabhupad also was establishing a Bhakti presence. I once alluded in a posting on the HDF of the significance of that very Hindu poster art:



    I am a Saiva. And this is a poster of Krishna by the great artist Raja Ravi Varma. Do you recognize it? It does not matter that I am a Saiva, this very poster is of iconic significance to Hinduism in America starting in the mid-1960's. It is no surprise that this very poster also appears in the video many years later directly behind and to the right of Sant Keshavadas as bhajans are sung. All across America, this poster was cherished.

    The Gayatri Mantra is the anthem of Three Worlds. Certainly all of them have a special place for you because of your strength, your balance, even your silence from which you then strike outward with strength. It is your kind that is like a bell, my apology was only in the sense that now I see where you stepped out from, I didn't know that. You are much more of an interesting person than many first realize. Indeed.

    By the way, I still have some items of Sant Keshavadas from decades ago, in my storage. I will have to take the time to fetch them and share.

    Om Namah Sivaya

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