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Thread: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

  1. #21
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    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    Namaste Sahas... If that is their thought process that they (UK) imagine evil Brahmins under every bed ready to kill them and dalits, then obviously living in a lie is the mark of circus clowns. When I imagined an MP in fear of Brahmins, I had to laugh.

    Maybe you are right. But there is no such thoughts in the US. But there are more than a few circus clowns in the current US Administration that are too busy trying to cover up the fact that the Russians were more on the ball than the CIA or FBI, that they are too busy making cover for their own jobs and power than to worry about Brahmins.

    Om Namah Sivaya

  2. #22

    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    End of the day this bill is there, and now we are moving to bring so called 'dalit' groups together with Hindu alliance as both are against any caste discrimination.
    Hindu faith does not condone birth based caste, as verses can easily be produced e.g.http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion-...-casteism.html

    Our caste is one: Human, with dignity of labour to all functions, as only by working together can society function for the better. Say good morning to cleaner and director e.g. when working in office. Without cleaner office cannt function , so respect to all functions as per Hindu texts.

    Also here in UK, cannot remeber last time was asked about my caste, ans have no caste, my function is by education and training, as per my own abilities and nature.
    Also we are moving to have verses handed out at temples so that clear humanity is shown, no discrimination, acceptance of all beings.
    Jai Mata ji

  3. #23

    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    As mentioned Arya Samaj, RSS, Agniveer, do not follow caste, Iskon:
    http://www.hafsite.org/media/pr/cast...communications

    ISKCONís Founder-Acharya, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, was an outspoken critic of the erroneous belief that oneís birth in a particular ďcasteĒ determined oneís occupation or station in life. Prabhupada boldly offered a more forward-thinking reading of references to varna# in Vedic#, or Hindu scriptures, arguing that such passages describe a system of natural social stratification intended to help people find the opportunities best suited to them, not to prevent them from making religious or secular progress. Prabhupada stressed that a personís qualities and activities, not a personís birth, determined oneís varna#. He strongly condemned discrimination based on a birth-based caste system as a harmful and unauthorized misinterpretation of Vedic scriptures and tradition.

  4. #24

    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    Dogra,

    Once again, caste is not a religious artifact. You have the fundamentals wrong by confusing Varna with caste.

    One is a Kayastha or a Naidu by birth only; not by virtue, or lack thereof.
    http://lokayata.info
    http://shivsomashekhar.wordpress.com/category/history/

  5. #25

    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    caste is not a religious, agree.
    Can u show where have confused varna and caste, please provide text, before making silly remarks

  6. #26

    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    Quote Originally Posted by dogra View Post
    caste is not a religious, agree.
    Can u show where have confused varna and caste, please provide text, before making silly remarks
    You are kidding, right?

    Here are some of your statements -

    Hindu faith does not condone birth based caste

    Prabhupada boldly offered a more forward-thinking reading of references to varna in Vedic...

    As mentioned Arya Samaj, RSS, Agniveer, do not follow caste, Iskon:
    http://www.hafsite.org/media/pr/cast...communications


    Our caste is one: Human

    Your statement of "caste is one" is mere personal opinion and nothing more. Caste is a huge deal in India to this day, the extent of which can only be grasped by those who live in the country and especially those who are in positions where they get to see the impact (politics, government, education, etc). The government recognizes backward castes, scheduled castes, most backward castes, etc.

    For one last time, this has nothing to do with religion. Your references to irrelevant authorities such as Hinduism, Veda, Iskcon, etc. demonstrate your poor understanding of the subject.

    http://lokayata.info
    http://shivsomashekhar.wordpress.com/category/history/

  7. #27

    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    Quote Originally Posted by wundermonk View Post
    Which is what I said.



    No. Asking the question again DOES help because unless the person defines a "Brahmin" or a "Shudra" non-circularly, all his arguments can simply be dismissed upfront. This point bears repeating.
    I should also repeat that all these points have been addressed several times already - right on these forums.

    I am thinking...how does one define Naidu, Nayar, Gujjar non-circularly? hmm....
    http://lokayata.info
    http://shivsomashekhar.wordpress.com/category/history/

  8. #28
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    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    Vannakkam: In any human rights legislation, the categories increase over time. "Shall not discriminate based on gender, race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. ..." There are also other things like age, class, looks, language, and things like caste that figure into the overall equation. I have no problem putting any of these into a constitution or political statement.

    I think we also have to remember that all individuals vary on it, and making generalisations like 'those _______ s are discriminatory is unfair to individuals within that group.

    As for priests, usually people hire the most qualified, which generally is Brahmins. I see no difference in that than selecting the players for a football squad who can run the fastest. I don't think some 5 year old girl is about to complain the the human rights guys that she can't play for Man U.

    We should be looking at our own subconscious minds and trying to decipher how we ourselves discriminate unfairly, and then take steps to readjust that. We all do, to some degree, whether we want to admit it or not.

    Aum Namasivaya

  9. #29

    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    Vannakkam: Frankly, I don't care. It's historical or intellectual trivia to me. All I want to be able to do is go to my temple, sit, and worship Ganesha. Who runs the temple, or who is allowed into the moolasthanam doesn't concern me. If it helped me get calmer, or live a more dharmic lifestyle, I would care. But it is largely irrelevant to me, and I suspect, the vast majority of Hindus.

    It's a scholarly debate, and I'm no scholar at all. I'm just a simple bhaktar trying to become closer to God. If sitting in a pile of sewage helped, I suppose I'd go do that.

    With that, I'll bow out of this conversation, since I'm one of the evil people, or a modern innovator, or both, I don't know.

    Aum Namasivaya
    Pranams.

    You don't care because it's a subject with which you are uncomfortable. That is fine, but it is hardly a trivial or academic subject. The Hindu viewpoint on caste is a huge issue that inspires a great deal of anti-Hindu attitude among non-Hindu scholars. Now those ivory-tower attitudes have filtered down to the lowest of the low, the democratically-elected politicians, who are going to push forward legislation which will punish Hindus for "caste discrmination."

    Where in the UK are people being discriminated against based on caste? In fact, caste is a non-issue for the majority of Hindus in their ordinary, day-to-day, secular lives, both in the UK and in India. The ONLY area where caste is a persistent issue is in the area of temple employment. While you may not care about the caste of your temple priest, you cannot deny that millions of Hindus do care, and that the vast majority of Hindu temples preferentially employ brahmins as priests. This is the essence of "caste discrmination," but it happens to be religiously sanctioned in the Hindu scriptural tradition. Now, can you really tell me that you don't care that politicians are about to empower themselves to repeatedly punish an entire religious group for following practices that are intrinsic to their religion? Seriously?

    You don't have to be a Hindu, or even a scholar, to recognize the evil inherent in this sort of legislation. When you empower the State to intervene in the internal affairs of private organizations based on some preconceived notion of morality, you are giving them carte blanche to attack entire religious groups whose views are not approved of by the majority. This is itself the essence of discrimination, and every thoughtful person should be opposed to it on that basis alone.

    Sadly, this thread shows that many Hindus will be perfectly happy with this legislation, as they have bought into Western, egalitarian conceptions of caste, and aren't going to be worried that the government which supports their views will be aggressing against religious institutions in the name of enforcing Western morality.
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  10. #30

    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    ISKCONís Founder-Acharya, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, was an outspoken critic of the erroneous belief that oneís birth in a particular ďcasteĒ determined oneís occupation or station in life. Prabhupada boldly offered a more forward-thinking reading of references to varna# in Vedic#, or Hindu scriptures, arguing that such passages describe a system of natural social stratification intended to help people find the opportunities best suited to them, not to prevent them from making religious or secular progress. Prabhupada stressed that a personís qualities and activities, not a personís birth, determined oneís varna#. He strongly condemned discrimination based on a birth-based caste system as a harmful and unauthorized misinterpretation of Vedic scriptures and tradition.
    With all due respect, Sri Prabhupada's own translations clearly reveal that varna was hereditary. In his Bhagavatam 1st canto translation, he has translated the story of Ashvatthama, son of Drona, who was a warrior by profession, became a murderer out of spite, and yet was freed from the death sentence on the basis of his being a brahmin.

    Sri Prabhupada has also translated Bhagavad-gita in which Arjuna, a kshatriya by birth, was discouraged from adopting a brahmin's work.
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

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