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Thread: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

  1. #41
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    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    Namaste Philosoraptor

    You points regarding laws changing are understood, this is always a risk no matter what the government is. Hopefully we get the best government, we get what we deserve often.

    (I am having some problems with a new cell phone when typing things into the reply field on this forum, I don’t have time to figure out why right now, excuse any odd paragraphs etc., I am not situated to respond properly, there will be typos as items roll off the phone screen and so on) …

    In brief, obviously the risks you describe can happen, but typically not in the manner of how radicals do things. When radicals take over, they typically do not use any of the existing laws to addendum in some radical agenda, but simply ignore entirely the laws of the “old regime”, they pre-stage the approximate event of placing sweeping “new laws” on the people by first establishing un-elected bureaucratic “administrations” of regulation and then after the people become used to being toadies of such “administrations” they then sweep in with the “new laws” that entirely replace the old ones which allow un-elected bureaucratic “administrations” the ability to do anything the un-elected bureaucrats want to do without the vote or consent of the people or the King and his advisers.

    The examples you give are real, but that is the consequences in part of what economists and legal scholars and authorities warned about in tax policy. In the old days, taxes were collected directly from the people at a given time or place using a single flat or scale, and not from the transaction of a sale of a product or service. But the people “vote” through silence, if they do not react to something it becomes defacto. Today, tax collection is made at the time of a transaction, that may be convenient but has consequences. I would prefer a returning or creating a flat tax paid once a year (literally, you take out your check book or setup a routing, and pay once or quarterly each year directly to the government a flat, or in some cases a flat scale based on profession, tax to the government rather than on sales – but that isn’t popular and probably isn’t going to happen very soon). We have the later and not what I would desire, but just because it is not what I would desire does not make the latter incorrect as far as legal perspective and logic. A tax collected by the government on the transaction makes the government a partner to every transaction of the business (and thus a partner to the business itself, just as private third-party vendors are a partner and legally in alliance with the company). So the “rules” which the government uses in relation to non-discrimination and civil alliances with the citizens now become the same rules in relation to the business. Government considers this tax collection too important to risk civil standing by the bad behaviors of its partners in private industry.

    This is perfectly logical and authorized by government. I do not like it, but it is not “wrong”. The government will say in such a tax structure, that “you did not create this (e.g. the business)” without their help, it would not have been possible. Obama said this recently even. I do not like that, but the facts are, it is also true. It goes way beyond just the fact that the business could not even exist without the public roads built by the taxes of the citizens of the State.

    So you are right in regards to dangers, but I do NOT think the current system as applied in such an anti-discrimination would predicate that a private religious institution must hire dalits to do pujas. There is no doubt, a situation could arise where a temple IS in fact told they are discriminating, but that would be the fault of the temple in almost all circumstance. For example, a temple opens, is a legit religious institution at first, but then they open a store front attached to the temple that is selling astrology readings en-mass at notable profit and really there are not many people coming to the temple. The temple may argue that the astrology readings are part of a religious act, or religious ceremony and so on. But it could be the case, that if this temple was not allowing dalits to come in and buy astrology readings in the adjunct, that the government could win a case in court that the temple is in fact running a business and is not a “non-profit” and thus taxes must be collected and the business is not allowed to discriminate. But if I owned the temple, I wouldn’t be so stupid to have such an astrology business adjunct to my temple.

    So yes, in some cases it might happen. That is from stupidity.

    What radicals do tomorrow, all I can do is scream at my television which my wife complains I do a lot of. But what radicals do, they will try to do no matter what the current law is.

    Om Namah Sivaya

    Other - In England they will soon be having a King. In England, private property is respected, though at risk, and citizens need to have the right to pass on what a father created, including private property, to the sons and so on. This is at risk, in the UK, in USA. In USA frankly it is less at risk. But this very principle is part of the concept of King. Soon there will be a King of England, and you will begin to see things return to normal because this King will be very popular.

  2. #42

    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    update:

    http://www.hinducounciluk.org/articl...te-legislation


    Please note the Hindu organisations have united here in UK, we will work for stronger Hindu community based on humane principles of our faith: Sanatan Dharma.
    We do not recognise caste, but god residing in hearts of all beings and dignity of labour to all functions as well as gender equality, all enshrined in our faith.

    To those anti hindu elements your anti hindu agenda and propaganda will fail, our faith is clear, distortion of verses, will not work as reconciliation to primal points will fail.

  3. #43

    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    Please, oh enlightened, meat-eating, liquor-drinking, non-Hindu, British politicians... save us backward Hindus from the errors of our caste-discriminating ways. Save us from our temples which unfairly hire only Brahmins and males as priests. Show these veda pandits what the true Hinduism is.
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  4. #44

    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    By all means any priests that discriminate will be condemned, and a case was taken up by one of the Hindu bodies.
    Any cases of pandits discriminating kindly report to the following link:
    http://www.hinducounciluk.org/

    Vedic scriptures are clear on clear spiritual equality, and dignity of labour.

    Those anti hindu elements take heed, we will defend our faith, take heed!

  5. #45

    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    How ironic that Hindus who are clueless about their own culture should spearhead the assault on Hinduism.

    Yeah, let's get those Hindu temples where they only hire brahmin priests! This is total discrimination and is against Hinduism. I know because agniveer.com tells me so! I'm sure it's only 1 or 2 bad temples, the rest will be totally unaffected by this policy, right?
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  6. #46

    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    Wait, I just had a thought. Once we're done with this policy of ethnic cleansing, er, I mean, punishing Hindu temples where they hire only hereditary brahmins, what will be left of Hinduism? What temples will still be standing after the "anti-discrimination" statutes get enforced?

    The answer is: ISKCON temples. Since ISKCON does not discriminate based on caste, gender, previous religious affiliation, or other background factors, ISKCON will have the majority share in the post-anti-caste-discrimination Hinduism world.

    How many of you "all gods are the same God" believers are relishing the thought of this brave new world of Hinduism in which your choices of where to worship are limited to ISKCON, ISKCON, and... ISKCON?
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  7. #47

    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    Oh dear, ignorant nonsense at its worst. It is quite clear that Sanatan Dharma scriptures are for spiritual equality.
    Hereditary Bhramin priests is a cultural issue, no doubt about that, but does not mean others cannot become priests as long as they are qualified, then no problem.
    We will continue, those that oppose come on, come on face us, state your case at meetings.
    we are moving, you want to stop come and try anytime.......
    Anti hindu elements take heed, your pathetic anti hindu agenda is doomed

  8. #48

    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    Information website for UK:

    http://mycasteishindu.org/

  9. #49

    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    Quote Originally Posted by dogra View Post
    Oh dear, ignorant nonsense at its worst. It is quite clear that Sanatan Dharma scriptures are for spiritual equality.
    Hereditary Bhramin priests is a cultural issue, no doubt about that, but does not mean others cannot become priests as long as they are qualified, then no problem.
    How many examples can you think of, from our "Sanatan Dharma scriptures," in which non-Brahmins became priests?

    And while we're on that subject, how do you reconcile your views with the fact that Shankara, Madhva, and Ramanuja - the great main Vedanta commentators, all agreed that hereditary shudras are not eligible to study the Veda? Let's analyze our positions here. These three stalwart scholars were learned in the Vedas and the dharma-shAstras, whereas your entire knowledge of Hinduism comes from what you read on agniveer.com and other similar websites. Are you really going to tell us that that the Vedantins were wrong and you are right on this issue?

    We will continue, those that oppose come on, come on face us, state your case at meetings.
    we are moving, you want to stop come and try anytime.......
    Anti hindu elements take heed, your pathetic anti hindu agenda is doomed
    You have been brainwashed to think that opposition to this legislation is "anti-Hindu." In fact, the legislation itself is anti-Hindu, since it can be used to punish Hindu temples for their traditional practice of hiring brahmin priests, which, contrary to Hindu revisionist thinkers, has been the standard for centuries. The idea that "well, that's not really the intention, so we can give the government this power" should be dismissed by anyone who doesn't want to appear uninformed. It is well-known that empowering the government based on good intentions has resulted in people surrendering their natural rights, and it will continue to do so. This legislation is ill-conceived and appears to be designed solely to score political points from the ignorant masses who don't know any better.
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  10. #50
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    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    Namaste.

    Perhaps it is too early in the life of the law since it just passed, however since the main concern here seems to be the fear that the local or regional government will order a private Hindu temple to hire non-Brahmins to be pujaris such as dalits for example, can anyone cite an example of that happening already under this legislation?

    If someone can cite even one example of a private temple (e.g. one not living off the dole of taxpayer's money) being told under this legislation "you must hire dalits and other non-brahmins as priests" then obviously you will have support in reforming such abuse of power that was legislatively an over-reach of the government role in private affairs and interpretation of civil rights.

    Has this already happened under this legislation? If so, then I would oppose such action even though I have no say in the affairs since I am American and not a UK citizen.

    But until then, why play this "Brahmin card" if you will? Maybe I will be proven wrong in the end, but I don't think it has happened yet nor will happen.

    Om Namah Sivaya

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