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Thread: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

  1. #51

    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    Quote Originally Posted by ShivaFan View Post

    But until then, why play this "Brahmin card" if you will? Maybe I will be proven wrong in the end, but I don't think it has happened yet nor will happen.
    And that is the kind of ignorance of history that allows bad laws to get on the books, and are the failing of democracy.

    In the United States, no one in power thought that passage of the Patriot Act and other anti-terrorism measures would lead to violations of civil rights. "Give me one good example of an innocent person being punished by this law" was the argument. And so it was passed with bipartisan support. Now, just 10 years later, we have government spying on journalists, government arresting whistle-blowers, government strip-searching disabled grandmothers and scared children at airport checkpoints, government targeting political rivals for tax audits, government wiretapping phones without a warrant, government spying on our email and text messages without a warrant, government sending drones in the skies to watch over us, government making routine stops and searches of innocent travellers near border checkpoints (not crossing borders, just near the borders), government indefinitely detaining suspects (not criminals, but suspects) without legal representation or guarantee of a speedy trial, etc etc etc.

    Number of terrorists caught due to these policies? Zero. Amount of money added to the debt? Trillions. Chances of the law being repealed in the near future? Zero.

    Because that's how democracy works. You capitalize on the ignorance of people to get bad laws passed. Then you denounce anyone who objects as "anti-(x)" where (x) can have any value, i.e. "American," "freedom," "liberty," "Christian," etc. In this case, X = Hindu.
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  2. #52
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    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    Namaste Philosoraptor.

    Yes, folks of the "politcal" wing many Americans including myself have, indeed share your concern regarding over-reach of government in it's role and power which should be the jurisdiction of Natural Law. Yes, it is true, once you give government that is based in special interests for their constituency and power, even if given for good intentions, it is difficult for the people or private ebtity to take back that power which then starts to be used for anything and everything never intended.

    But what can be done? All that can be done in this time is take one day at a time, and when over reach happens then fight it, bring it to attention, and just as important have the wealth and power to fight.

    That is why I always say, I want ALL Hindus to be wealthy, and to be united and not divided. If this can happen, you will see oneday a REAL horrific crisis will come, but we will be united and defend the community.

    Thosr things that unite the community and the larger Family of Hinduism will in the end be the greatest blessing of all.

    Om Namah Sivaya

  3. #53

    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    Quote Originally Posted by ShivaFan View Post

    But what can be done?
    You can speak out against, or at the very least, refuse to support, those politicians who refuse to follow the rule of law. In a free society in which laws are based on natural law, there is no room for people trying to empower government to fulfill their social and moral agendas.

    All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing.
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  4. #54

    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    Quote Originally Posted by philosoraptor View Post
    How many examples can you think of, from our "Sanatan Dharma scriptures," in which non-Brahmins became priests?

    And while we're on that subject, how do you reconcile your views with the fact that Shankara, Madhva, and Ramanuja - the great main Vedanta commentators, all agreed that hereditary shudras are not eligible to study the Veda? Let's analyze our positions here. These three stalwart scholars were learned in the Vedas and the dharma-shAstras, whereas your entire knowledge of Hinduism comes from what you read on agniveer.com and other similar websites. Are you really going to tell us that that the Vedantins were wrong and you are right on this issue?


    Similar websites, oh dear, better get a does of the reality of the verses in Vedas themselves, and then speak.
    Shocking that u think u can tell Hindu faith that hereditary is the way when the scriptures do not.
    Let us also see:
    http://www.hafsite.org/media/pr/cast...communications

    Alliance of Hindu organisations also disagree with you e.g.:
    http://mycasteishindu.org/

  5. #55

    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    Now also:

    http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion-...-casteism.html
    Thus, the central command of the 14 harmony richas and 10 profession not hereditary richas of Vedas is that all Hindus are totally equal by birth, of one bunch, share same water and food, worship together united in same temple, common are prayers, common purpose, common thoughts, united like spokes of a wheel, common oblation and friendly towards each others.

    One becomes a warrior (Rajnya), Brahman (educated ones) or rishi, not by birth but by his efforts/training (karma) vide RV (X.125.5). No one is superior and no one is inferior by birth.
    Very disturbing when individuals like yourself try to twist around and you cannot even reconcile back to Moksha.......
    Anyone one can become of any profession given their training and knowledge and thats a fact, as per sanatan Dharma scriptures

  6. #56

    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    Quote Originally Posted by philosoraptor View Post

    You have been brainwashed to think that opposition to this legislation is "anti-Hindu." In fact, the legislation itself is anti-Hindu, since it can be used to punish Hindu temples for their traditional practice of hiring brahmin priests, which, contrary to Hindu revisionist thinkers, has been the standard for centuries. The idea that "well, that's not really the intention, so we can give the government this power" should be dismissed by anyone who doesn't want to appear uninformed. It is well-known that empowering the government based on good intentions has resulted in people surrendering their natural rights, and it will continue to do so. This legislation is ill-conceived and appears to be designed solely to score political points from the ignorant masses who don't know any better.
    Oh dear what a load of personal nonsense.
    Bill has been passed it is up to British law to decide, pros and cons either side. It is done, we are now responding to it as we do not want to be labelled with caste on census.
    Pointless to go on what is done as regards bill, that cannot be changed, so we move forward on how best to meet our community needs here in UK, and the alliance does not subscribe to hereditary nonsense also:

    http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Caste_System6.htm
    Sage Vyasa, a Brahmin sage and the most revered author of the major Hindu scriptures, was the son of Satyavati, a low caste woman. Vyasa's father, Sage Parasara, had fallen in love with Satyavati, a fisherwoman, and had married her. Vyasa's deep knowledge of the Vedas later determined the caste of Vyasa as Brahmin sage, and not his birth to a low caste-woman.

    Sage Valmiki, the celebrated author of of the epic, Ramayana, was a low caste hunter. He came to be known as a Brahmin sage on the basis of his profound knowledge of the scriptures and his authorship of the Ramayana.
    Sage Aitareya, who wrote the Aitareya Upanishad and was born of a Shudra woman.
    Rishi Parashar, the famous law-giver was the son of a Chandala, the lowest of the Sudras.
    Rishi Vasishta was the son of a prostitute, but honored as a sage.
    Sage Vidura, a Brahmin sage who gave religious instruction to Kind Dhritarashtra, was born to a low caste woman servant of the palace. His caste as a Brahmin sage was determined on the basis of his wisdom and knowledge of Dharma Shastras (scriptures).
    The Kauravas and Pandavas were the descendants of Satyavati, a low caste fisher-woman, and the sons of Sage Vyasa. Vyasa's father was the Brahmin Sage Parasara, the grandson of Sage Vasishtha. In spite of this mixed heredity, the Kauravas and Pandavas were known as Kshatriyas on the basis of their occupation.

    Chandragupta Maurya was from the Muria tribe, which used to collect peacock (mor) feathers; Samrat Ashok was the son of a daasi.
    Saint Thiruvalluvar who wrote Thirukural was only a weaver. Other saints were adored including Kabir, Sura Dasa, Ram Dasa and Tukaram came from the humblest class of Hindu society.


  7. #57

    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    Hindu council UK report on caste:
    http://www.hinducounciluk.org/report...e-caste-system

    Time and again non hindu elements will not succeed in their poor attempts to convince Hindu people that they follow hereditary policies, understand Vedas are clear.
    (X.191.2): “Meet together, talk together, let your minds apprehend alike: in like manner as the ancient gods concurring accepted their portion of the sacrifice.” RV (X.191.3) “Common be the prayer of these (assembled worshippers), common be the acquirement, common the purpose, associated be the desire. I repeat for you a common prayer, I offer for you a common oblation.” RV (X.191.4) “Common (worshippers), be your intention; common be (the wishes of) your heart; common be your thoughts, so that there may be thorough union among you.”
    where is reconciliation where , only to humanity is there reconciliation and why , as that is the fact!

  8. #58

    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    BBC cannot show evidence for hereditary caste in hinduism:
    http://www.publications.parliament.u...28/128we52.htm

    Radio 4 "Sunday programme" on 26 September 2004. One of the issues examined in this programme was to see if caste discrimination is operating in the UK. The programme makers were informed that just as the English Class system operating in Christian England cannot be said to be Christianity; the hereditary caste operating in India is not Hinduism. Hereditary caste does not have sanction within the scriptures of authority of Hinduism, so the programme should make this clear.

    Facts:
    THE BBC'S FAILURE TO PORTRAY THE KEY FEATURES OF HINDUISM

    The key themes of Hinduism that the BBC (to our knowledge) has never explored in depth are:
    • (a) Religious Pluralism, which accepts and celebrates many pathways for making spiritual progress incorporating theistic as well as non-theistic approaches. It is religious pluralism that allows many religions to co-exist on a rational format. It is religious pluralism that allows religions to co-exist with full dignity and without compromise. It is this feature of Hinduism that holds the answer to how people of different faiths can co-exist peacefully in a multi-faith society. Despite the serious need to invoke this theme in its programming to diffuse the issue of strife in the name of religion post 9/11, the BBC production teams have failed to do so.
    • (b) The Divinity of mankind is the conclusion of the Hindu religion. This teaching offers the highest dignity to mankind. It transfers reverence reserved for an invisible being in an invisible plane to reverence for all living things here and now. It defines the worship of God as service to mankind. The most potent aspect of this teaching is that it displaces materialistic humanism with spiritual humanism. It gives the best reason for being altruistic. It teaches that the reason why we should value life is not because we are all made from the same sophisticated lumps of carbon but because we are all expressions of the spirit. The BBC has not explored the Hindu version of humanism, called Spiritual humanism.
    • (c) Reconciling the truth claims of Science and Religion is a theme Hindu teachings are well geared to explore, but no such programme has ever been commissioned. Hindu teachings are in broad agreement with the theory of evolution, the big bang, quantum mechanics and the life sciences. Such exploration can make religious teachings interesting and exciting and may even lead the way for modern sciences to take conceptual leaps towards unifying science with spirituality.
    As Lord Krishna says God resides in hearts of all beings.
    people with hereditary views in hinduism are hanging of a cliff by their fingernails, time to let go and let facts of clear humanity in Vedas to shine through

  9. #59

    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    Clearly, traditional systems of pedigree are distasteful in today's world.

    Perhaps it may have been a little more dignified if these revisionists accepted that they are bucking tradition as they disagree with it, instead of distorting scriptures to find new meanings relevant to 2013, thus claiming that thousands of years of tradition was based on misinterpretation of scripture - which these people are now correcting!
    http://lokayata.info
    http://shivsomashekhar.wordpress.com/category/history/

  10. #60

    Re: 'caste' discrimination is part of equality bill in UK

    Sage Vyasa, a Brahmin sage and the most revered author of the major Hindu scriptures, was the son of Satyavati, a low caste woman. Vyasa's father, Sage Parasara, had fallen in love with Satyavati, a fisherwoman, and had married her. Vyasa's deep knowledge of the Vedas later determined the caste of Vyasa as Brahmin sage, and not his birth to a low caste-woman.

    Sage Valmiki, the celebrated author of of the epic, Ramayana, was a low caste hunter. He came to be known as a Brahmin sage on the basis of his profound knowledge of the scriptures and his authorship of the Ramayana.
    Sage Aitareya, who wrote the Aitareya Upanishad and was born of a Shudra woman.
    Rishi Parashar, the famous law-giver was the son of a Chandala, the lowest of the Sudras.
    Rishi Vasishta was the son of a prostitute, but honored as a sage.
    Sage Vidura, a Brahmin sage who gave religious instruction to Kind Dhritarashtra, was born to a low caste woman servant of the palace. His caste as a Brahmin sage was determined on the basis of his wisdom and knowledge of Dharma Shastras (scriptures).
    Here we go again with the crass, religious revisionism. Once again, telling the truth is not important when you have an ideology to support.

    Vyaasa: Was NOT, I repeat, NOT, the son of a "low-caste woman." Satyavati was the daughter of Upachari Vasu, a kshatriya, whose seminal discharge found its way into a fish.

    Aitareya, Paraashara, Vasishtha: I'm calling your bluff. Where is the scriptural evidence stating this? Please quote specifics.

    Vidura: Was not a brahmin sage. Again, where is your evidence claiming that he was a brahmin? Merely saying that he was highly respected is not the same thing as saying he was a brahmin.

    Kauravas and Pandavas: Again, the website you are quoting from is wrong. Satyavati was not of shudra caste.

    Thiruvalluvar, Kabir das, etc: Were historical persons, and as such their caste status cannot be substantiated by scripture.

    This is what happens when you use Google pramaana to learn about Hinduism.
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

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