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Thread: Shrimad BhAgvat says... points to ponder about the Supreme Lord and His Creation

  1. #51

    Re: Shrimad BhAgvat says... points to ponder about the Supreme Lord and His Creation

    Quote Originally Posted by hinduism♥krishna View Post
    Pranam, smaranam.

    I think the word " enjoys " is very appropriate. Because there are many verses in bhagavat purana where it says that ishwara acts as a jiva in bodies of living entities.

    One of them is:

    Bhutairmahadbhirya emaha puro vibhurnirmaya shete yadamushu purushah ।
    Bhunkte gunanashodasha shodashatmakah solangkushista bhagavanvanchasi me ।। (bhagavat 2.4.23)

    Creating material bodies of living entities formed by panchamahabhuta, ishwara sleep as a jiva(atma with material and subtle body) into them and with the attachment to 16 kalas ( 5 dnyanendriye, 5 karmendriye, 5 pranas and 1 manah) ishwara enjoys (or experiences) 16 types of material subjects.

    Also we get many verses indicating bramhaatmavidya or oneness of bramhan and atma.

    Hari govinda hari
    praNAm

    Yes, because it is purely His nature to become all this Universe and all these beings. Otherwise He would always remain alone if that wasn't the case.
    On another note / taken in the context of LeelA, 'Enjoys' makes Ishvar a Person. Upanishads also say "raso vai sah" He is full of ras, therefore He enjoys [interactions with His devotees]. Please also see my post above in reply to your qn. Mere theoretical knowledge of Bramhan and AtmA is not enough.

    Jai Shri KRshNa
    Last edited by smaranam; 08 July 2013 at 01:18 AM.
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  2. #52
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    Wink Re: Shrimad BhAgvat says... points to ponder about the Supreme Lord and His Creation

    Quote Originally Posted by smaranam View Post
    . Enjoys makes Ishvar a Person.
    Appropriate meaning of bhunkte is experiences , not enjoys, when we are talking about atma or bramhan. In actual, bhagavan doesn't enjoy anything while acting as a jiva , it is just an appearance due to maya. Happiness and sorrow of jiva are just appearances , they are not real. We are experiencing happiness or sorrow due to illusion of mana only. JIVAHOOD is as false as a dream. A false thing cant rule over a true , atma or bramhan. Atma is beyond maya and liberation.Atma has no bondage or liberation. The concepts of liberation or bondage for atma occurs only due to satva gunas of maya. ( for further explanation read uddhava gita ]

    Shri hari govinda
    Hari On!

  3. #53

    Re: Shrimad BhAgvat says... points to ponder about the Supreme Lord and His Creation

    When I said Ishvar enjoys, I was talking of another context, not in context of SB 1.2.33 (bhunkte bhuteshu tadguNAn).
    I merely picked up the word you used, for a different context which is beyond mAyA, and with no traces of raja tama anyway. The context being that of LeelA ONLY. IshvarI LeelA (or LeelA between Ishvar and devotees like in VaikuNTha).

    Quote Originally Posted by hinduism♥krishna View Post
    Appropriate meaning of bhunkte is experiences , not enjoys, when we are talking about atma or bramhan.
    Then why did you bring that up even as a joke?

    Actually, even experiences is not correct. WITNESS is the correct implication, while leaving the rest to prakRti and karma.

    I have already covered that here long ago:
    (see the underlined.)
    Quote Originally Posted by smaranam View Post
    Here, paramAtmA is watching the movie, popcorn in hand. The giant movie screen has actors. The wise actors are detached from the role, while some are entangled in the "saMsAr" of the role they are playing in the movie. In case of each actor, the paramAtmA is very closely watching and listening. This watching and listening indifferently itself is the 'bhunkte bhuteshu tadguNAn' for paramAtmA.

    I think the verse is trying to show the choice that paramAtma is making - that of enabling shakti in allowing the tree, parrot, and snake to exist and then Himself voluntarily watching their activities. To Him the whole universal phenomenon is like simultaneous chemical reactions beyond time-space. Desires (vAsanA) are the respective catalysts. Karma is the law of thermodynamics.

    * Here 'watching/witnessing' does not imply any involvement (emotional or otherwise). Otherwise it would imply that the [param]AtmA gets entangled which is not the case.

    Hare KRshNa
    _/\_
    om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya
    Last edited by smaranam; 08 July 2013 at 01:19 AM.
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  4. #54

    Re: Shrimad BhAgvat says... points to ponder about the Supreme Lord and His Creation

    Namaskaram
    The answer is very simple. The sun and the sunlight. Sunlight is like jivas (manushya, devas, plants ect) and the sun is God. Ray of light is the same quality as the sun but not as that powerfull. That`s why jiva is under the influence of tri-gunas .
    Lord enters every body with jiva as Paramatma and agrees for any deeds the jiva is making on the influence of tree moods of nature. He notice the suffering and enjoyment with jiva but he `s not touched by those things because he`s sat -cit -ananda rupa. Ananda means He`s full og bliss so where is question of sufering?

    For other answers see coments ABOVE

  5. #55

    Re: Shrimad BhAgvat says... points to ponder about the Supreme Lord and His Creation

    || om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya ||

    sacchidAnanda rUpAya vishvatpatyAdi hetave
    tApatraya vinAshAya shri kRshNAya vayam numah: ||

    praNAm

    A few more on ...
    Quote Originally Posted by smaranam View Post
    Subjects of this post:
    1. Qualifications for karma, jnana and bhakti yoga resp.
    2. Characteristic of BhAgvat Dharma
    3. AtmA inside is AtmA outside.
    From Prayers of glorification and surrender by Lord BramhA when He stole the calves and gopa boys and Shri KRshNa expanded into as many forms to replace the missing calves and boys ( betN ages 5and 6) :

    SB 10.14.25 AtmAnamevAtmatayAvijAnatAm
    tevaiva jAtaM, nikhilaM prapanchitaM |
    DnyAnena bhUyo-api cha tat pralIyate
    rajjvAmaherbhogabhavAbhavau yathA ||

    Those who do not realize and recognize the [param]AtmA as their own AtmA, see the worldly transactions (prapancha) of names and forms as reality because they lack knowledge [of the AtmA]. However, as soon as they gain this knowledge, this ignorance is destroyed completely. Just as one mistakes the rope to be a snake owing to delusion arising from lack of knowledge (jnana), and the snake disappears as soon as the delusion is over.

    SB 10.14.27 tvAmAtmAnam param matvA paramAtmAnameva cha |
    AtmA punarbahirmRgya aho~adnyajanatAdnyatA ||

    Despite You being their AtmA, people consider You to be a stranger, and think of their body etc. which are the actual strangers, as their own. Besides they start searching for You elsewhere. Just see! Such ignorance of the ignorant living beings!
    [Note: Here 'param' means para as in other, something else (not parA). Antonym of aapa (own) is para (strange, other).]

    - translations from Gita Press.

    _/\_
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

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