Hinduism and Thoughtcriime

[Webimpulse]

Namaste HDF!

I may still be a newbie to Hinduism in general, but one thing I'm not a newbie to and can be considered to be well-versed in are literary concepts, some of which cross over into the philosophical realm. I figured I'd bring up one of those concepts and see what a Hindu perspective might be on it, as I think this might be something I can at least learn from, even if I'm not the most qualified to discuss the Hindu perspective on it.

This concept I'm bringing up is that of the thoughtcrime, as introduced by author George Orwell in his eerily prophetic dystopian novel 1984. If you're wondering what exactly thoughtcrime is, Wikipedia has what amounts to a Cliffs Notes version right here. I'll let you read that before I proceed.

Read it? Good. I will continue.

You might be wondering what Hinduism has to do with thoughtcrime - well, it is in my humble opinion that Hinduism was the first (and quite possibly the only, from what I know) faith to say that thoughts alone should not be considered crimes. The way Hinduism argues this point long before Orwell coined the term thoughtcrime in the first place is what makes it such a beautiful faith. Hinduism argues that there should be no thoughts considered crimes in two ways:

• Emphasizing that it is action combined with thought, rather than action or thought alone, that accrues karma, for good or ill.
• Providing a means of dealing with thoughts considered impure/evil without having to resort to treating the mere thoughts as crimes.

Examples of both of these concepts can be found in the Bhagavad Gita. For instance, Krishna says to Arjuna at multiple points in the Bhagavad Gita that it is impossible to not perform action in this world, so the key is detachment - performing action without expectation of result, acting without desire. This is profound because it implies that thought alone does not incur himsa (harm) - it's the action behind it. The actions you perform as a result of your thoughts are what matter, because those thoughts are what spurred the action. You may not be able to control the actions of others, but you can control how you respond.

As for the second point, well, the Bhagavad Gita has a whole chapter dedicated to rehabilitating thoughts rather than treating them as so much anathema or crimethink (to use another 1984 book term). Is this not the point of meditation? Meditation is not the practice of stopping thoughtcrime so much as the practice of temporarily stopping thought overload, simplifying thoughts rather than aggressively categorizing them.

Maybe I'm not doing a good job of explaining my points here. My overall point is that Hinduism taught me that my mind is not the enemy.

[Necromancer]

Namaste, Webimpulse.

In my readings and experience, I have learned that the thought is no different from the action.

When I was reading Autobiography of a Yogi - on the life and times of Swami Yogananda....

As a young neophyte, Swami Yogananda was sitting in meditation under his Guru, Sri Yukteshwar Giri...

As he was sitting there, trying to meditate, a mosquito was biting him on the arm...Swami thought something like this:

"I wish I could kill this thing because it's annoying me and disrupting my meditation...but Ahimsa says I shouldn't take this insect's life, I don't know what to do..."

Then, his guru (who read his mind) said to Yogananda..

"you may as well kill it now because you have thought about doing it...in your mind, you have already killed it, so the Karma is no different".

Aum Namah Shivaya

[Webimpulse]

Namaste Necromancer,

I understand the point you're trying to make with the story you posted, but...well, it's still a rather depressing concept. Unfortunately, that sort of concept opens up the floodgates of despair in my mind...my mind does wander into impure territory, I'm sad to say, since I'm a Westerner trying to escape the indoctrination of my home civilization. No matter how hard I try, I can't seem to escape this indoctrination. It seems I'm truly condemned in this regard.

If the mere thinking of thoughts you're not supposed to think gives you negative karma...I don't know. I just don't know. It seems hope for me to be a decent human being dwindles every day.

[Necromancer]

Namaste Necromancer,

I understand the point you're trying to make with the story you posted, but...well, it's still a rather depressing concept. Unfortunately, that sort of concept opens up the floodgates of despair in my mind...my mind does wander into impure territory, I'm sad to say, since I'm a Westerner trying to escape the indoctrination of my home civilization. No matter how hard I try, I can't seem to escape this indoctrination. It seems I'm truly condemned in this regard.

If the mere thinking of thoughts you're not supposed to think gives you negative karma...I don't know. I just don't know. It seems hope for me to be a decent human being dwindles every day.

Namaste.

Please don't despair over the story that I posted. Such things are only meant to give us direction and another perspective...a different perspective on the situation.

How many times have you thought to yourself 'this person is annoying...I wish they would go away and leave me alone' however, your sense of social decency either forces you to 'listen' attentively (even though your mind is probably thinking about lunch) or make an excuse to leave the scene with an 'I'm sorry, but it's a bad time for me right now' then go play Minesweeper on your computer...or something...

How I see it, is that by performing the correct actions by rote...even though your mind thinks about other things, can condition your mind into thinking and believing those things through the continued practice and application thereof.

I take my own 'truths' from wherever I find them and yes, it gets me into trouble a lot for being 'personally biased'...however, my journey is a personal one.

Srila Prabhupada once said that when one comes to Krishna Consciousness, bad thoughts and actions just don't cease automatically...it's like an electric fan...even after you turn the power off, the blades will keep on spinning round and round for a while before eventually stopping.

In terms of Patanjali's Yoga Sutras, Karma is caused by deep-rooted Samskaras or impressions the mind creates, leading us into habitual patterns of thought vs action called Vasana.

"Yogash chitta vritti nirodhah.
Tada drashtuh svarupe avasthanam".

To try and understand how 'thought crime' relates to Karma, one must study Patanjali and then they'll understand how it all works.

I could explain it, but I shall let the Internet do that for me:

http://www.swamij.com/karma.htm

I hope this explains the reason why and how Karma is related to our thought patterns which produce whatever actions we take.

Or else, you can forget 1984 and just read Animal Farm instead. lol

Aum Namah Shivaya

[Jeffery D. Long]

The problem, it seems to me, is in the very notions of "crime" and "supposed to" and "not supposed to," which are very Abrahamic. Karma, as I understand it, is the fact that certain actions (and words and, yes, thoughts) lead to certain kinds of experiences. So do, think, or say what you like, but understand that you are responsible for the result. Act (and think and speak) in harmony with dharma and you will prosper. Do not, and you will suffer. Act in harmony with dharma without attachment, and you will be liberated. No one is looking down and judging that this or that thought, word, or deed is good or bad. That is the Abrahamic god concept. Hinduism is instead a guide to navigating the moral and spiritual universe to the greatest benefit of all, yourself included.

I take the Gita portion that you cited and Necromancer's story to mean the opposite of your interpretation. It is the thought that matters most in achieving liberation, not specific actions. Acting with a detached mind is the key.

And yes it is hard to control the mind. But you have infinite time to work at it. The just one lifetime model is also an Abrahamic hang up.

I hope this helpful. That is my intention (which is also a thought).

[Jeffery D. Long]

The red angry face on my last posting is a mistake.

[Webimpulse]

And yes it is hard to control the mind. But you have infinite time to work at it. The just one lifetime model is also an Abrahamic hang up.

LOL. In light of that statement I had to share that photo. And my intent is to lighten things up.

Will get to a more detailed response soon. Right now I got work to attend to.

[Jeffery D. Long]

Awesome photo! Thank you!