View Poll Results: Should Threads Specifically Discussing Caste have it's Own Category?

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  • YES

    7 41.18%
  • NO

    10 58.82%
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Thread: Should Caste threads have Their Own Section?

  1. #11
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    Re: Should Caste threads have Their Own Section?

    Namaskaram to all.

    If I may express my thought in ten points:

    1. The overwhelming majority of Hindus are of Indian descent.
    2. Jati and varna are significant realities for this majority.
    3. Jati and varna are increasingly challenged in the present era.
    4. Large numbers of Hindus now feel a crucial need to discuss jati and varna.
    5. HDF can and should serve the Hindu community by providing a venue for thought-sharing on this crucial subject.
    6. Western converts to Hinduism, though constituting only a minute fraction of the Hindu population, are nevertheless a significant presence on HDF.
    7. Jati and varna may impact Westerners (a) if they marry Indian Hindus, (b) if they seek entrance to certain temples, (c) if they associate jati and varna with issues of social justice, (d) if they have a sociological interest in the caste system, and (e) if they are wondering how or whether to apply to themselves the system of four varnas described in some of the scriptures they choose to study.
    8. For many Westerners jati and varna are irrelevant or else a nuisance factor that they tolerate for the sake of access to Deity worship, sacred philosophy, and/or the practice of yoga.
    9. It is notorious that discussions centering on Caste eventuate in a flurry of acrimonious posts that are deleterious to the forum in which they are posted. By their sheer volume these acrimonious posts have the effect of burying other threads that are worthy of attention.
    10. From all the above, I conclude that the issue of Caste deserves a dedicated forum.

    Pranam.

    Mahadeva Smaranam OM namah shivaya
    Mrtyunjayaya rudraya neelakanthaya shambhave
    Amrteshaya sarvaya mahadevaya te namah

  2. #12

    Re: Should Caste threads have Their Own Section?

    The internet has no caste.

    Technically, there are only two classes of people in this forum - the ones who know the scriptures well (like many of the old members here), and the ones who don't.


    I don't see the point of characterizing either of them by their birth, especially in this forum.

    That being said, i believe a simpler solution would be to just give the caste topic a separate space, simply that it does not prove a hindrance for the rest of the forum.

  3. #13
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    Re: Should Caste threads have Their Own Section?

    Quote Originally Posted by TrikonaBindu View Post
    Namaskaram to all.

    If I may express my thought in ten points:

    1. The overwhelming majority of Hindus are of Indian descent.
    2. Jati and varna are significant realities for this majority.
    3. Jati and varna are increasingly challenged in the present era.
    4. Large numbers of Hindus now feel a crucial need to discuss jati and varna.
    5. HDF can and should serve the Hindu community by providing a venue for thought-sharing on this crucial subject.
    6. Western converts to Hinduism, though constituting only a minute fraction of the Hindu population, are nevertheless a significant presence on HDF.
    7. Jati and varna may impact Westerners (a) if they marry Indian Hindus, (b) if they seek entrance to certain temples, (c) if they associate jati and varna with issues of social justice, (d) if they have a sociological interest in the caste system, and (e) if they are wondering how or whether to apply to themselves the system of four varnas described in some of the scriptures they choose to study.
    8. For many Westerners jati and varna are irrelevant or else a nuisance factor that they tolerate for the sake of access to Deity worship, sacred philosophy, and/or the practice of yoga.
    9. It is notorious that discussions centering on Caste eventuate in a flurry of acrimonious posts that are deleterious to the forum in which they are posted. By their sheer volume these acrimonious posts have the effect of burying other threads that are worthy of attention.
    10. From all the above, I conclude that the issue of Caste deserves a dedicated forum.

    Pranam.
    Namaste.

    All very valid and noteworthy points.

    In regards to points #7 & #8.

    For a long time, I was married to a Hindu man of Vaishya caste. His family came from the Sunar or 'Goldsmith' clan.

    He studied the scriptures in India and became a Pundit...even doing Pujas for Brahmins! Nobody cared or questioned this. His services were (and still are) in high demand.

    He is also very proficient in Jyotish.

    His family are also followers of Mahatma Ghandi who was 'anti-caste'.

    Now, I am divorced. I am an unmarried woman, living in poverty with a questionable reputation.

    I guess that makes me a Shudra according to Scripture.

    I really don't care though because it is irrelevant.

    I'm not married to a Hindu, my Mandir accepts all without discrimination, I still follow the teachings of Ghandi and believe in social injustice, and I basically follow the teachings of the Upanishads and do Hatha Yoga.

    So, jati and varna do not apply to me at all.

    I will concede that they are important for others and I would have to be born in that situation to be able to understand it...just like how men cannot understand women and vice versa.

    Because it doesn't apply to me, I really do not care.

    If there is a whole forum dedicated to discussing this, even though I don't believe in it, I shall let others believe and just continue to ignore it and continue to talk about Lord Shiva in the Shaiva Forum.

    Aum Namah Shivaya

  4. #14
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    Re: Should Caste threads have Their Own Section?

    Namaste

    Just so I am not misunderstood, this post is about suggesting that caste have it's own section. Hopefully this thread about this suggestion doesn't turn into another debate and jalpa about caste itself. No one is doing that, just might see it coming.

    Which is just another example and supportive point that it should have it's own section. That way the essays, arguements, pros and cons can all go into that one bucket, and for those who are exhasted or bored with the "debate" can enjoy other sections without it turning into a big debate between a few members and so....

    Thanks for the input so far! Very helpful for me.

    Om Namah Sivaya

  5. #15

    Re: Should Caste threads have Their Own Section?

    Is there any reason why those who are "bored" with caste discussions can't just skip those threads? I don't see the issue here.
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  6. #16
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    Re: Should Caste threads have Their Own Section?

    Namaste Philosoraptor

    It isn't just about being bored, though yes if such threads which often are essays were in one section it would make it much more productive and allow those to simply ignore the section where they are found simply because it becomes boring hearing the same songs over and over again, and having the discussion in it's own section allows the other categories some freedom from being whitewashed into never ending point counter point on caste that distracts from the main themes of these other sections.

    So yes, I guess boring would also be an appropriate term.

    If the thread is going to be a focus on a caste discussion, let that be in it's own category. That allows both pro and con to present threads and if so desired get into the same point and counter points on teachings. I certainly would consider posting what I have been taught about varna verse jati, very different from what appears to be your teachings.

    Or ignore the category entirely if there are better things to discuss such as the Devas.

    It is better to have it's own category, then instead have every other discussion turned into jalpa about caste because some feel a need to bring it up as focus of their concern again and again... Heard it, been there, so may as well file it where it can easily be found.

    Om Namah Sivaya

  7. #17
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    Re: Should Caste threads have Their Own Section?

    Quote Originally Posted by philosoraptor View Post
    Is there any reason why those who are "bored" with caste discussions can't just skip those threads? I don't see the issue here.
    Namaskaram.

    I believe the discussion of caste is crucial to the worldwide Hindu community.

    The logical leaders of such a discussion are persons of Indian ancestry, since it is they who best understand the function and/or dysfunction of jati/varna in the contemporary world.

    The opinions of non-Indian Hindus on the subject of caste are clearly of lesser importance. Indeed it would be counterproductive for the Hindu community as a whole, if non-Indian Hindus were to intrude excessively into a field of discussion that pertains primarily to persons of Indian ancestry. This is not to say that we Western Hindus ought never to add our occasional two cents. But unless we are apprised of definite caste-related civil rights violations, I believe we non-Indians do well to maintain "noble silence" for the most part, leaving our Indian co-religionists to process their intimate knowledge and experience of caste.)

    If I favor the establishment of a separate forum for the discussion of caste, it is with the feeling that non-Indian Hindus are not likely to abstain from discussions that originate in forums where they are long accustomed to a free expression of their personal opinions. Whereas (so I would hope), if there were a dedicated forum for the discussion of caste, non-Indians might show the good sense and good grace to let themselves be marginalized for the sake of the greater good.

    Pranam.
    Last edited by TrikonaBindu; 09 June 2013 at 01:04 AM.

    Mahadeva Smaranam OM namah shivaya
    Mrtyunjayaya rudraya neelakanthaya shambhave
    Amrteshaya sarvaya mahadevaya te namah

  8. #18

    Re: Should Caste threads have Their Own Section?

    I am inclined to agree with Trikona on this one.

    The issue of discussing caste and varNa is extremely important to the Hindu community. For decades, this issue has been used by critics to strike out against Hinduism in the name of missionary work or academic "scholarship." It doesn't help that the modern caste system has become a corrupted version of the original varNAshrama dharma. This is not to say that pure varNAshrama would be compatible with Western egalitarian sensibilities. But we have to acknowledge an integral part of the tradition and discuss it properly, with reference to shAstra, or else we are just lying to ourselves.

    varNAshrama and all discussions about it belong in the dharma forum. That is why it is there - to discuss dharma, and that is what varNAshrama is. We don't need yet another subforum to protect the sensibilities of those wanting to believe in a more "politically correct" version of Hinduism. If a thread bothers you, then hit the "back" button on your browser. Or better yet, read with an open mind and stop interjecting with tangential remarks and strawman attacks.

    One more point: there is a propaganda by some individuals that varNAshrama should not be acknowledged or discussed because it is not "practical" in this day and age. I am curious to know why anyone thinks that the quest for moksha is in any way "practical." It's so much the opposite of what we experience in this world, that a clear idea of what it is and what it requires is necessary for us. But be that as it may, whether one is striving for moksha or not, there is no harm educating ourselves about it, since it is a part of the Hindu tradition in one form or another, and it deserves serious attention.
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  9. #19
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    Re: Should Caste threads have Their Own Section?

    Namaste,

    Quote Originally Posted by Necromancer View Post
    ......... I ...... believe in social injustice....
    Really?

    Quote Originally Posted by TrikonaBindu View Post
    ......This is not to say that we Western Hindus ought never to add our occasional two cents.....
    The minimum value of anything that qualifies to be posted here is $1; just so you know.

    Pranam.

  10. #20
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    Re: Should Caste threads have Their Own Section?

    Quote Originally Posted by philosoraptor View Post
    varNAshrama and all discussions about it belong in the dharma forum. That is why it is there - to discuss dharma, and that is what varNAshrama is.
    Funny thing, philosoraptor. In the original version of my post, I did venture to suggest that caste discussions be assigned to the Dharma forum. After all, we are speaking here of varnashrama dharma, an issue of substantial importance in our scriptures, which deserves a more dignified category than “Hot Topics.” Subsequently I edited out that suggestion, because I felt it might distract from the main points I wished to make.

    What I actually suggested, then deleted, was to make a sub-forum for Caste within the Dharma forum. On further consideration, however, I find myself wavering on that idea. Why? It occurs to me that if we were to single out Caste for a sub-forum, how many other Dharma sub-forums would there have to be? For example, should we then require a separate sub-forum on the status of women, since that is also a controversial issue of Dharma?

    I could accept the assignment of Caste discussions to the Dharma forum, at least for the time being—except there remains this misgiving mentioned earlier: Threads on caste often eventuate in a flurry of acrimonious posts that adversely affect any forum in which they are posted. By sheer volume the acrimonious posts bury other threads that are worthy of attention.(I guess that is why Caste got booted to Hot Topics. Sigh.)

    Also, Non-Indian Hindus are long accustomed to post on Dharma forum, so there might be more intrusion into what ought to be primarily a discussion among Hindus of Indian ancestry. Although Indian Hindus do quite a fine job of arguing just among themselves, the entry of Westerners into the discussion of Caste definitely adds fuel to the fire. That's why IMO, Cost:benefit ratio should persuade Westerners towards economy of expression on this issue.

    So it's a headscratcher.
    Last edited by TrikonaBindu; 09 June 2013 at 12:19 PM.

    Mahadeva Smaranam OM namah shivaya
    Mrtyunjayaya rudraya neelakanthaya shambhave
    Amrteshaya sarvaya mahadevaya te namah

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