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Thread: bhagavat purana book

  1. #11

    Re: bhagavat purana book

    Quote Originally Posted by hinduism♥krishna View Post
    i want to know is there any bhagavat puran except that of iskcon?

    iskcon has changed the meaning of many verses . they are trying to force gaudiya vaishnwas philosophy in bhagavatam and hiding actual philosophy written in bhagavatam.

    so anybody have original bhagavat puran ebook? help me.
    Almost any translation you read is going to be slanted towards the views of the translator. That's true of almost any Sanskrit scripture translated into English. This is partly because many terms in Sanskrit have multiple dictionary meanings, and some interpretation which considers the context is going to be required in order to produce a translation that is understandable to the reader. It is the translator's responsibility in my opinion to show why he translates in the way he does, and why alternate meanings are less satisfactory. This is the essence of good commentary.

    If you want the original, you would be better off reading it in Sanskrit. Failing that, the best thing you can do is compare and contrast different translations and appreciate their different strengths and weaknesses.
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

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    Thumbs Down Re: bhagavat purana book

    Quote Originally Posted by philosoraptor View Post
    Almost any translation you read is going to be slanted towards the views of the translator. That's true of almost any Sanskrit scripture translated into English. This is partly because many terms in Sanskrit have multiple dictionary meanisome interpretation which considers the context is going to be required in order to produce a translation that is understandable to the reader. It is the translator's responsibility in my opinion to show why he translates in the way he does, and why alternate meanings are less satisfactory. This is the essence of good commentary.

    If you want the original, you would be better off reading it in Sanskrit. Failing that, the best thing you can do is compare and contrast different translations and appreciate their different strengths and weaknesses.
    You r right But iskcons commentry is not acceptable by all . That is not according to vedas. Veda's final aim is oneness of atma and bramha . But iskcon doesnt accept oneness of atma and bramhan.That's the big problem !
    Last edited by hinduism♥krishna; 02 September 2013 at 03:27 AM. Reason: adding sentences and deleting sentences which may sound abusive
    Hari On!

  3. #13

    Re: bhagavat purana book

    Quote Originally Posted by hinduism♥krishna View Post
    But iskcons commentry is worst . That is not according to vedas. Vedas and bhagavatas final aim is oneness of jiva and bramha . But iskcon doesnt accept oneness of atma and bramhan. So that commentry is totally nonvedic.
    One should read bhagava purana which is focussing on devotion to hari and oneness of jiva and supreme bramhan.
    Iskcon bhagavatam says bramha paramatma and bhagavan are different
    But original bhagavat says they are one and only one.
    I hate to break this to you, but the Advaitic concept of "oneness" of jiva and brahman isn't based on the veda-s, either. Nor will you find such a concept in the bhAgavatam. There really isn't any controversy here. The bhAgavatam is not an Advaitic text, period. Taken as a whole, the bhAgavatam, like the upaniShad-s clearly endorses a kind of qualified oneness and difference between jIva-s and brahman. Their conclusions are quite consistent with those of the bhagavad-gItA and viShNu purANa-s also.

    Anyway, it looks like you have decided what the conclusion is, and now just want to find the translation that seems to authenticate your bias. I don't find any real difference between your preference for a "oneness" translation and an ISKCON devotee's preference for, well, the ISKCON translation. But best of luck in your search!
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  4. #14
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    Re: bhagavat purana book

    Quote Originally Posted by hinduism♥krishna View Post
    But iskcons commentry is worst . That is not according to vedas. Vedas and bhagavatas final aim is oneness of jiva and bramha . But iskcon doesnt accept oneness of atma and bramhan. So that commentry is totally nonvedic.
    One should read bhagava purana which is focussing on devotion to hari and oneness of jiva and supreme bramhan.
    Iskcon bhagavatam says bramha paramatma and bhagavan are different
    But original bhagavat says they are one and only one.
    Namaste,

    I think you need to read copies outside Vaishnav tradition, as almost all Vaishnav will not agree with Advaita, needless to say that they try to disqualify Advaita as vedic.

    This fight will go on like dev-asura fight. Better not to start this debate nonsense debate as none will change their paths - outcome will be nothing but waste of time, swelling / hurting of ego. HDF has seen this saga. The experience has not been pleasant.

    As a friend, I request you not to hate any path or faith, as actually, you are feeding your negative qualities.

    Aum

    Amrut
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

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    Smile Re: bhagavat purana book

    deleted
    Last edited by hinduism♥krishna; 02 September 2013 at 03:24 AM.
    Hari On!

  6. #16

    Re: bhagavat purana book

    Namaste

    Quote Originally Posted by hinduism♥krishna View Post
    Bhagavatam should be as per accurate translation of sanskrit texts...
    So i want pure bhagavata as it should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by philosoraptor View Post
    Almost any translation you read is going to be slanted towards the views of the translator.
    1. Shrimad BhAgvatam is about 2 things
    a) TattvadnyAna (philosophical knowledge of the Absolute Truth in accordance with Veda-VedAnta)
    b) Bhakti Yoga, bhakti ras (in accordance with Veda-VedAnta), process, means, ideals and examples of devotion towards the Lotus Feet of the Supreme Lord, BhagavAn Shri KRshNa Hari Govind NArAyaNa HRshikesh MadhusUdana.

    2. VaishNav AchAryas will elaborate on jivAtmA-paramAtmA interaction as otherwise it will leave no scope for bhakti for most except inherent bhAgvats. The bhakti shlokas are their jewels. So they add things like "individual soul kshetrajna", "Lord causes jivas to enjoy" etc. A perspective. Nothing wrong.

    3. Advaita AchAryas downplay the significance of bhakti bhAv, ras, yoga in their translations and commentaries. To do so they add some things - again - as per their perspective.
    e.g. "Although the ultimate knowledge is to be situated in the AtmA, it is OK that some stay in dual consciousness for bhakti towards NArAyaNa"

    4. This is why i recommend Gita Press as there are no purports, commentaries or viewpoints. It is the product of an honest attempt at very innocent translations of the sanskrit, yet, the Gorakhpur publisher's author panel is fully devotionally inclined. This is consistently observed with their Bhagavad Gita translations as well.
    They do mention jivatma, and how it should be devoted to Parameshwar. However, they are not afraid to translate the sanskrit that says there is one kshetrajna-AtmA that is purAN-purush VAsudev, who becomes all lokas and beings and experiences the guNas through the bhUta (living entities) OR that jivatma is the paramAtmA itself (UpadRshTA anumantA cha bhartA bhoktA maheshwara).

    This is because they see the strength of the numerous bhakti yoga and bhakti rasa shlokas, for which they have bhAvpUrNa yet accurate translations. Their final message is 'bhakti rules'

    In addition, the translations in BhAratIya (Indian) languages gives immense scope for best word usage as these languages have their origin in Sanskrit, and better appreciated by those whose mother-tongue, regional, national or spoken language it is. It speaks to them culturally and naturally. While something spills thru' the fingers - although very slightly - with English. (As Amrutji always notes).

    _/\_

    om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya ~
    Last edited by smaranam; 28 June 2013 at 10:40 AM.
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  7. #17
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    Re: bhagavat purana book

    Smaranam ji is right,

    Any acharya will try to be consistent with the views of path they follow and represent.

    Regarding Gita press, Saints like Goenka and Swami Ramsukhsdasji, were both Ram Bhakta nas Tatva Jnani. their commentaries are inclined with bhakti with Jnana mixed, but mostly bhakti. They are honest in translation. Sometimes I wonder how they manage to print and sell so economically.

    Also the authors are not just scholars but live spiritual dedicated life.

    Originally quoted by Smaranam ji

    3. Advaita AchAryas downplay the significance of bhakti bhAv, ras, yoga in their translations and commentaries.
    I agree. If you try to pile up layers, then the joy of reading will be lost.

    Aum

    Amrut
    Last edited by Amrut; 28 June 2013 at 08:42 AM.
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  8. #18

    Re: bhagavat purana book

    That being said, if you are a detached dRshTA (witness) albeit a devotee, Shrila PrabhupAd's purports are a treasure. He explains many things and gives references into other shAstra (purAN, upanishad, tApani upanishads, GautamIya tantra etc.)
    He explains things behind the scenes. Bhakti secrets. How to grow and nurture your bhakti latA starting from sowing the bhakti latA beej.
    He brings in wisdom from Chaitanya, Goswamis, Vishwanath Chakravarti Thakur etc. all jewels.
    So if one is not going to get carried away, and can discriminate, then they are definitely candidate for PrabhupAd nectar. Then you will appreciate why the AchArya translates the way he does, and says what he says.

    I used to own a broken bhagavatam set by PrabhupAd (broken because the store (a temple library store) had lost a few books and that is all they had).

    sacchidAnanda rUpAya vishwatpatyAdi hetave
    tApatraya vinAshAya shri kRshNAya vayam numah:
    (BhAgvat MahAtmya verse 1)
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  9. #19
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    Arrow Re: bhagavat purana book

    Quote Originally Posted by philosoraptor View Post
    I hate to break this to you, but the Advaitic concept of "oneness" of jiva and brahman isn't based on the veda-s, either. Nor will you find such a concept in the bhAgavatam. There really isn't any controversy here. The bhAgavatam is not an Advaitic text, period. Taken as a whole, the bhAgavatam, like the upaniShad-s clearly endorses a kind of qualified oneness and difference between jIva-s and brahman. Their conclusions are quite consistent with those of the bhagavad-gItA and viShNu purANa-s also.

    Anyway, it looks like you have decided what the conclusion is, and now just want to find the translation that seems to authenticate your bias. I don't find any real difference between your preference for a "oneness" translation and an ISKCON devotee's preference for, well, the ISKCON translation. But best of luck in your search!
    Namaste, phil.
    I just read this and decided which one should i buy.

    The main topic of vedas are oneness of atma and parabramhan. To know veda mind shoul b very pure without having any duality.

    Look what bramhan krishna wants to say in bhagavat :

    Lord krishna says to his dearest devotee in 11th canto ( uddhava gita )the secret of oneness between himself and jiva.

    24 chapter verse 3

    Meaning of the Verse:
    That absolute reality, Brahman, which is beyond the ken of speech and the mind become dual in the shape of Maya (objective existence) and that which is reflected in it viz the Jeeva or the seer.

    The Brahman is absolute and all pervading. There is not particular form and name in it. It cannot be understood by mind or caught by intellect. It is not reachable by any organs.
    It is without Sattwa etc modifications, and it has no particular shape. It is the only Reality, the only truth. It is beyond even the minutest inarticulate speech and it has not modifications in its Real Being.

    Even there, in the Brahman, what miracles are made by Maya are beyond imagination. It
    creates two fictitious factors in the Brahman. One is the onlooker and the other is the object of looking. It itself becomes the Male (Purusha) and Female (Prakruti) and through this dual factors creates the inanimate as well as the living beings in the world.

    As soon as a solid form comes into existence, its shadow also comes there. Similar is the life
    of Maya related to Brahman. It has created Shiva as Male and Shakti as his female counterpart
    which is the primary duality.

    That, which is God in the Universe, becomes on a smaller scale the Jeeva in a Body (Pinda).
    This Maya has created the duality of Purusha and Prakruti.

    Veda declares that Brahman is not divisible. How was it torn or cut into two pieces? It is like
    our face seen in a mirror by ourself.

    If we face the east, the image of ourself is not facing the east. It looks at us, and thus looks at
    west. This is the magic of Maya.

    If we say that the reflection is in front of us, it is not facing east as we are, but it faces to our
    opposite direction. The man is looking at East, but the reflection faces west.

    Similarly the Atman is always facing swaroop i.e. the Reality and Jeeva is looking at the
    outward world. That is why Jeeva cannot turn its face towards the Reality. Jeeva is looking at
    the opposite direction.

    Similarly the original pulsation in the Brahman is the Root Maya. There we face the God in
    our own self, because we are directly in front of Him.

    In the pure Reality of Brahman, the apparent Maya is a false thing, but that Maya has created twoness in one and created shiva and shakti ( purusha and prakriti)

    21 chapter verse 35

    Meaning of the Verse:
    Vedas are having three divisions. Finally, aiming at oneness of Brahman and Atman. The sages are in the habit of writing indirectly and I also like indirect suggestive statements. (35)

    Vedas has three divisions dealing each with karma, Worship and Knowledge (Karma, upasana dhyana) by which through purity of mind soul reaches bramhan.

    Just as a fisherman pulls a fish by a hook, using a bait, Vedas also, by using the bait of
    heavenly enjoyments pulls the soul towards the real spiritual life.

    The stanzas in Veda contain terms which convey hidden meaning by indirect speech, e.g. by teaching the man to gradually relinquish things and sacrifice; he is guided to give up attachments to objects etc.

    When this secret meaning is properly understood by the soul and he becomes one with the
    Brahman, the two factors as Action and the Actor become unreal. Then the social classes
    and the stages in personal life (Varna-Ashrama infrastructure of society) are of no importance.

    Then what place has the three factors viz the object of mediation, the act of meditation, and the person who meditates? What place is there for the knower, the knowing and the subject to be known? As he is total, one Absolute Reality, the devotee, the devotion, and the object of devotion also do not remain!

    What is then the performance of action? What is non-action? The very Vedas and the study of Vedas are also no more! Where is the place for the spiritual effort? He is complete all- pervading Brahman!

    Then faults and merits, sin and good deeds, birth and death do not exist for him. Everything
    is nothing but Brahman. !

    Where is the division and where is the awareness of Unity or one-ness? What is the bondage
    and what is the freedom? O Uddhava! There is total eternal bliss! And this is what the Vedas
    mean!

    If, however, this is clearly stated and taught to all, the core intention of Vedas to teach life of
    virtue to the people will be defeated and, therefore, I have arranged to keep this hidden.

    This is the essence of the secret of Vedas and the store of hidden knowledge. I have told you
    because I know your worthiness for it.

    If this is revealed for everybody, people who do not deserve, will give up all good deeds
    and will miss both the Brahman and the duty.

    Great sages have considered this point and kept direct meaning hidden, giving expression only to the obvious meaning of encouragement to worldly activities.

    I also consider it the proper approach in order to maintain the evolutory nature of social
    structure, because normally all people like to work for outward objects.

    Though I am a non-doer, I do work in order to maintain the order of the world and to give
    guidance to people I also follow the obvious meaning of the Vedas.

    24 chapter verse 27

    Meaning of the Verse:
    The Time merges into Jeeva (Purusha), and the Jeeva merges into me, the Atman which has no
    birth. Atman is Atman itself, where there is not Vikalpa. (Duality). (27)


    When the Purusha is disturbed it becomes Time-Spirit and the creation, the existence and the
    dissolution of forms comes into being.

    When these three are finished, the function of Time is also finished and naturally it gets
    merged into Jeeva.

    Purusha who gives life to the lifeless and makes living beings from matter is called Jeeva.

    By the power of Prakruti, the pure Brahman, or Purusha becomes Jeeva.

    Prakruti is like a mirage; it appears but has no real existence.

    If a man falls into the apparent water of mirage, he will not find actual water there, and he
    would not be drowned. Similarly, Prakruti is unreal and Jeeva also is unreal!

    For example, if we look at the ocean, we feel that sky has fallen in it, but it will be foolish to
    think that the sky has fallen. Similarly, the form, the name, the quality, the Karma – are all
    illusions within Maya.

    O Uddhava, even if Prakruti is supposed to exist, the Jeeva-hood is false. I shall tell you the
    facts.

    When we look into the mirror, we see ourselves as reflection, but we are aware that, we
    exist ourselves quite separate from the image.

    O Uddhava, similarly, though I appear to be within the created universe, i.e. Prakruti while
    the process of creation etc is going on, you should remember that I am different from
    Prakruti.

    The sky is seen as reflected in the water, but it does not get wet. Similarly, though I work
    using Prakruti, I am not affected in any way.

    When we consider on these lines, the facts, we come to the conclusion or realization that
    Prakruti or Maya does not exist at all, the two names viz Jeeva and Shiva are false, because
    what is known as Jeeva is really the Paramatman.

    When the existence of Jeeva is negated, its counterpart Shiv is also finished, and what remains is Atman, one complete non-duality.

    When the Jeeva remembers that it is not Jeeva, but Atman, at that moment, Jeeva becomes
    Absolute Reality, the Paramatman, which is having no birth, no destruction, no division, and is endless.

    When in the Brahman, there is no awareness that itself is Brahman, where is the scope to say I or You, and who will say it? O Uddhava, at that stage, there is only the highest bliss!

    You may ask what that highest bliss is. My answer is I am the highest bliss, which is without
    births or deaths. I Shri Krishna is that endless eternity. It has no other place than myself.

    O Uddhava! You are also the same bliss, because there is no duality of You and I. Only the
    greatest original cause of everything - the Brahman exists.

    I am the soul of your soul. There is no difference between You and Me! Thus I have told you
    – The sign of my secret nature.
    I, Shri Krishna am the Atman of all the world and you, Uddhava, are the Atman of myself –
    Listening to this statement made by Shri Krishna, Uddhava was confused.

    He thought – ‘No doubt, the Lord says that I am his Atman, but I am ignorant of his greatness.
    Strange is the miracle of this Supreme Person. How can we, ordinary men know it?

    Identity as Uddhava is no doubt understood to be false. When I considered what the Lord
    says, I do not see myself separately.

    But if I attain the consciousness, where my identity is lost, the Lord seeing me as enlightened, will go to his permanent abode, leaving me to suffer the pangs of estrangement, which I will not be able to contain, to sustain.
    Last edited by hinduism♥krishna; 02 September 2013 at 03:20 AM. Reason: correction in many sentences
    Hari On!

  10. #20

    Re: bhagavat purana book

    So basically, the problem here is we need to find a non-Vaishnava translation of the bhAgavatam, right? Something that lacks all those crazy ISKCON ideas like "Vishnu is the only Supreme God, other gods are not the Supreme God."

    Good luck with that....
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

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